Is the HMC150 still a viable option for documentary work?

J

JustinBrown

Well-known member
I'm thinking about picking one up on eBay, and I'm curious to hear your input. Is it impractical given the current crop of tools available?

I like everything about it, I just wonder if going the 720p route when everything else is headed 4k might be me looking backwards a bit.

The big seller for me is the used price compared to the AF100 or C100. I also really like having a fixed lens and ccd's. There doesn't seem to be too many(any) options that hit that category.

I just want something broadcast acceptable that I can use for interviews and b-roll. Do I really need more than this camera can offer?

Thanks for your time!
 
Yes. Don't worry about what's out now. Instead think what you want your video to look like.

Also, while there's a great deal of chatter about the latest shiny thing, there are many video makers quietly working day in and out with gear that's even older than the HMC150.

Computers are stuck at 1366 x 768 for most people. So if your distribution is Net only, I'd say you're good for another 5 to 10 years. Even if you wind up on television, most people will have HD-only sets for years and years and will continue to sit too far away, have too much ambient light, and not care enough, to even fully appreciate that, much less 4K.

And what do you mean, 720p? The camera can do 1080.
 
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combatentropy said:
Yes. Don't worry about what's out now. Instead think what you want your video to look like.

Also, while there's a great deal of chatter about the latest shiny thing, there are many video makers quietly working day in and out with gear that's even older than the HMC150.

Computers are stuck at 1366 x 768 for most people. So if your distribution is Net only, I'd say you're good for another 5 to 10 years. Even if you wind up on television, most people will have HD-only sets for years and years and will continue to sit too far away, have too much ambient light, and not care enough, to even fully appreciate that, much less 4K.

And what do you mean, 720p? The camera can do 1080.
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What I mean about 720p is...I was under the impression that that was this camera's sweet spot in terms of image quality. Or is that wrong?

That's some good perspective to offer. I am not a professional videographer by any means, but I did get the chance to shoot on a friends documentary with my 7D and found the process to be tortuous in some respects...that said...I am looking to get a reasonable starter camera to do some of my own documentary projects, and maybe some things for our local public access channel. Most of the current choices would break my bank, which is why I am looking for input on this camera.

Thanks for the feedback!
 
The hmc150 is still a viable workhorse. I love the skin tones of its CCD chips and global shutter.
It's a 1080p camera but when shooting wide outdoor scenery (in 1080) it's certainly not as sharp as the newer CMOS cameras.
720p looks fantastic and 1080 either looks ok to good depending on what you are shooting.
The biggest complaint I have is the lousy LCD is hard to manually focus but it does have built in assist tools to help.
Unless I need 60fps I shoot everything in 1080 whether final delivery will be 1080, 720 or 480.

its a good all around camera
 
When it came out, a professional reviewer wrote that it was more comfortable to hold than any other camera in that body style, because of its weight and balance. I can't remember which reviewer said that, nor can I find the quote. But I know I read it.

And since then, while picture may have improved, bodies have worsened. Witness the monstrosities that are the FS700, AF100, REDs, SLRs, and the latest mutant from Blackmagic. So it may well be that the HMC150 still has the best body around.
 
I had AC-130's and believe me the HMC150 is way, way better!! In fact even my HMC80's were better than the AC series despite the fact that the chips were only 1/4" ...You can get a 150 at a bargain price and it will produce some great footage too! If you can find one then grab it!!
 
I owned a 150 for years and now an AC-130. While I prefer the 130 in about every possible way, the 150 took nice footage. I just opened some files from an old job yesterday and was impressed that in the final footage, it's hard to see the difference. More about the useability.

I did find the 150 really REALLY needed an external monitor - that screen just sucks ass and there's no good focus tools. You don't get the killer focus-in-red or dual slots... and the 150 isn't a full-raster chip which can hurt you when you need absolute 1080 detail or when keying - it's got a "smushy" look when keying (but these days, who'd key with a small chip video camera anyway for an important project...)

I loved the 130 upgrades like crazy, and I'd still suggest one of the newer cameras over the 150. But if money's tight, it's very capable.

Shot entirely with a 150:

 
I use both everyday and can say they are almost at par, and by the way i get wonderfull clips when properly whitebalanced, the ac 130 is very forgiving with the W/B, the ac130 is also forgiving during editing, resizing, rotation etc. I have just found out that the AC130 uses more power than the HMCs, and i would like to tell panasonic to think again about this issue of changing batteries with different models, the only reason i bought the ac130 was because it shared the same batteries with the HMCs.
 
I use the large aftermarket batteries you can get on amazon. I get 2.5 hours or so from them, and they're cheap. Work fine on the 150 and the 130. Haven't found battery power to be an issue really, but I don't shoot 3 hour continuous clips outdoors!
 
You might also consider an hpx170 which are going for bargain prices, however the p2 memory will add somewhat to the cost over sd cards. But P2 memory is much more robust and widely used for pro work. The hpx is the same cam as the hmc150, but with more pro features. It uses a better I-frame codec wit better 422 color. It has an SDI interface which is the pro interface for external monitors and recorders.

Grant
 
ggrantly said:
You might also consider an hpx170 which are going for bargain prices, however the p2 memory will add somewhat to the cost over sd cards. But P2 memory is much more robust and widely used for pro work. The hpx is the same cam as the hmc150, but with more pro features. It uses a better I-frame codec wit better 422 color. It has an SDI interface which is the pro interface for external monitors and recorders.

Grant
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Hi Grant! I looked at the 170 also, but was kind of put off by the P2 media. I do like that it is 422 capabale though.
 
Yeah I forgot to mention the workhorse 170. The HMC150 is also 4:2:2 capable if using an HDMI external recorder, and maybe slightly more sharp than the HPX170 due to the DVCPRO HD codec the 170 uses. A recorder means more $$. But so does P2.
 
firehawk said:
Yeah I forgot to mention the workhorse 170. The HMC150 is also 4:2:2 capable if using an HDMI external recorder, and maybe slightly more sharp than the HPX170 due to the DVCPRO HD codec the 170 uses. A recorder means more $$. But so does P2.
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I wasn't aware that the 150 had clean hdmi out. It's 8 bit 422 I assume?
 
Not sure regarding the hdmi output on the 150, maybe someone else could chime in. I would doubt what firehawk said regarding sharpeness being better on the 150, based on what? DvcproHD used by the 170, is a superior codec in every way that I can think of. Being I-frame, it handles motion much better and is better for color as well such as green screen and grading. Think leaves fluttering in the wind, or sports. It edits more easily. I'm not knocking avchd, I use it and it works fine, but given the choice, I'd use dvcprohd every time.

P2 memory is both good and bad. On one hand it is totally rock solid. You NEVER hear about anyone losing data using P2. But it is more expensive, though in the used market, it can be had for somewhat reasonable prices. The killer using P2 is if you need long form recording and need a lot of it.
 
ggrantly said:
Not sure regarding the hdmi output on the 150, maybe someone else could chime in. I would doubt what firehawk said regarding sharpeness being better on the 150, based on what? DvcproHD used by the 170, is a superior codec in every way that I can think of. Being I-frame, it handles motion much better and is better for color as well such as green screen and grading. Think leaves fluttering in the wind, or sports. It edits more easily. I'm not knocking avchd, I use it and it works fine, but given the choice, I'd use dvcprohd every time.

P2 memory is both good and bad. On one hand it is totally rock solid. You NEVER hear about anyone losing data using P2. But it is more expensive, though in the used market, it can be had for somewhat reasonable prices. The killer using P2 is if you need long form recording and need a lot of it.
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So...the 170 is the better of the two then. But...+600 bucks for a 64g P2 card. Dang. Having the option to go to lower than HD resolution would be handy though.
 
If you can live with 32gig cards, they are the best bang for the buck and are running under $200 on ebay. I've never needed more than 64g total. If you have two cards, you can field wrangle the data and record forever if need be. The 170 can also upload P2 cards direct to a hard drive in the field without a cpu. Not sure if the 150 can do that.

Doing some math, you should be able to get a hpx170 and 3 memory cards and maybe a couple of batteries for about $2,000. You can get the newer AC90 for that + memory. Each cam has some good features and to be honest, I'm not sure which one I'd choose at this point. The AC90 would be sharper (CMOS) but still records to avchd. The 170 is a better cam in features, is better in low light, and has better iris control over very bright scenes. IQ isn't everything, but the AC90 is another option you might consider and it is current production. I'm not sure I would trade my 170 even for a AC90, I really like the 170 for many reasons, but starting from scratch and even money…..I'D have to think about it.

Grant
 
ggrantly said:
If you can live with 32gig cards, they are the best bang for the buck and are running under $200 on ebay. I've never needed more than 64g total. If you have two cards, you can field wrangle the data and record forever if need be. The 170 can also upload P2 cards direct to a hard drive in the field without a cpu. Not sure if the 150 can do that.

Doing some math, you should be able to get a hpx170 and 3 memory cards and maybe a couple of batteries for about $2,000. You can get the newer AC90 for that + memory. Each cam has some good features and to be honest, I'm not sure which one I'd choose at this point. The AC90 would be sharper (CMOS) but still records to avchd. The 170 is a better cam in features, is better in low light, and has better iris control over very bright scenes. IQ isn't everything, but the AC90 is another option you might consider and it is current production. I'm not sure I would trade my 170 even for a AC90, I really like the 170 for many reasons, but starting from scratch and even money…..I'D have to think about it.

Grant
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I appreciate your input Grant. I've been watching eBay and Amazon and there have been some pretty good deals on both the 170 and the 150.

One last question, what is considered high usage hours with these?
 
Justin

Since these are all digital cams, there aren't really moving parts except for the lens focus motors. So in most cases, the overall condition is more important than hours of use. Maybe find one that's been in a studio. Having said that, I would be looking for something with less than 400 hours. I think you'll find many with significantly less. Things to watch for are things like worn out plugs, stripped tripod mounts, grinding focus motors (they all make a little noise but if it sounds gritty, that is a concern). Both cams will have a the famous internal klunk when off. Exercise the flip out and adjust the EVF when the cam is on to make sure the ribbon cables are OK. I'm sure others will chime in with other things to look for.

You might also check out the DVXUser "for sale" section and even try a want to buy (WTB) ad. I'd bet there are a lot of members with 170s and 150s in the closet gathering dust. Make sure and get references and watch out for foreign shipping - customs issues. Also foreign cams may be PAL or foreign language menus, so verify the model designation.

Also, to get the most out of either cam, find a copy of Barry Greens book, he published one for each cam I believe. He is a moderator here. His books are entirely better and actually essential to get the most from the cam. The factory manuals leave a lot to be desired.

Good Luck
Grant
 
Indeed, I believe hours of use is a holdover from tape days. Would you buy a phone with 250, 500, or 750 hours of use? Does it really matter? Like ggrantly said, the outer condition is more important.
 
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