Is the F3 worth the extra $k?

I doubt very seriously that the clients I have looking very hard at my F3 bid for two documentaries in the fall would have considered the FS100 instead. They are Red users, looking for a lighter/faster alternative, but they want the SDI out and possibly the S-log upgrade, which I can rent on a card. I just think if you possibly can, go F3, look at the bigger picture. Also, if you decide to rent out the camera, it commands a much better rate than the FS100. 30 rentals or 30 production days at $475. That is a no brainer for the powerful machine you're getting for $14K.
 
I just came back from my dealer and I definitely like it better than the FS100. I rather have a RED or Alexa but my clients don't pay me for the camera I use.:happy:
Now I just have to decide on the accessories that I would need to get it working. I haven't heard any thing convincing about the Sony lenses. The price looks right if they are as sharp as other cine lenses and I like that it shows lens information in the VF. Any one out there that owns them and have test them?
Another decision is the power. Sony battery and charger cost as mush as the equivalent Anton Bouer. My Panasonic 8" monitor has the Anton Bouer mount with power tap so I can power both with one battery or power supply/charger.
Should I buy an SD card adapter ($120.00) for S&Q or buy SxS 32GB for $550 and an external recorder?
Decisions decisions! At list I am narrowing it down.:cheesy:
 
Adorama is great on the cost, HORRIBLE on customer service and attitude!! However, I think I'll rent an EpicM for a few days to just play with it.
Anyone wanna buy an F3 right after that? ;-)
 
I'd love to have an Epic. It should be the camera for us all, the end all be all camera for indie filmmakers, the cutting edge, the artistic tool that would truly make filmmaking what it should've been since the beginning, about the art, the artist and its talent. But its not. Irony of ironies, it ends up being a Sony camera the one that gives Indie filmmakers a chance to fight the big boys... I still remember RED's beginnings and "Raison d'etre"- to democratize Filmmaking, to create a true cinema camera for the independent filmmaker. Heck, I still remember when Red would speak in this forum enthusiastically. With the creation of Reduser, less and less Red people post here ("official" people, not dvxusers that migrated there. The majority of those still post here) . It seems like a good metaphor to what Red as become: it has "abandoned" the DVXUSER's and embraced the high end, the Big Studios, the ones that had it in the first place. its true that RED created a revolution in the high end market, it made the old establishment change their approach (and pricing), but we over here at the lower budgets, the true independents, not the rental houses, the medium sized companies, but the independent filmmakers, the young artists, the new creative force of the digital era that needed the revolution to bring fresh ideas and content to the industry- we were just left behind. The true changing moment for us indies was when we got "lucky" when a Big manufacturer "mistakenly" opened the Pandora's box- CANON- with the video capabilities of the 5D Mark II. It was indeed this camera that changed the landscape for us: not putting down the previous 35mm adapter movement which was a revolution on itself, but the 5D and VDSLR's really opened true cinematography capabilities for the "have nots", or the independent creative, filmmaker.

Maybe Red are trying to make their money back from their initial investment. Maybe they have in the medium or long term a plan to create a camera for us that would "level" the field. It makes sense. However, in my view, of course, RED is now somehow a bit of a "slave" of their marketing: They don't want to piss off their current base of costumers with introducing a cheaper camera that can produce similar results to their expensive equipment. They cannot introduce a S35 Scarlet at an AF100 price range not because of manufacturing price or profit margins, but because it can (this is my opinion) bring down the rental market and perceived value of the Epic. In the end, it happened to RED what we all have been criticizing the Old Big Players- Protection to their Higher end gear.

Back to the F3, then. This one I can afford. I'm not thinking on recouping my money with this purchase, or renting it, but owning it to produce short films and content that I know technically can be accepted for all possible distribution paths. The F3 is really DVXuser's RED Camera, in my opinion. I never really liked Sony cameras, even though my first prosumer camera was a TRV 900 3CCD camera that produced excellent images ( I remember using slow shutter to "emulate 25p :) ). But I'm here, in DVXUSER, for a reason. First, I would like to know when is Panasonic introducing a HPX 400, an AF100 with P2, AVC-Intra, better sensor to compete with the F3 with a Log option? Answering my own rethorical question :) I'm in DVXUSER because back in 2003 I bought a DVX100, a fantastic camera that gave me cinegamma, 25p and an image that made my then employer's engineers (the local broadcast channel) jaw drop. After that, it was the HVX200, a powerhouse HD camera that was much, much better than the crappy HDV counterparts from the competition and was used in feature films. Now, Panasonic, the Af100 was an interesting camera, but Sony truly outperformed you this round, may it be with the Fs100 or the f3 (which you don't have a competing product to)

Anyway, looking at how things are going, I'll be getting a Sony F3 by the end of October (Unless Canon or Panasonic brings a surprise in the coming months- not much hope for Panasonic since I need a camera by the end October and usually takes them from announcement to launch more than 3 months...)
 
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LeavingTheCandy said:
Adorama is great on the cost, HORRIBLE on customer service and attitude!!
Click to expand...


Please accept my apology for any inconvenience or disappointment that has ever been caused by any member of the Adorama staff team. We have numerous competent and well trained sales associates all of whom who we expect to be considerate of our customers.

However, it sounds from your posting that you have not been served as you quite rightly should have expected, and I would welcome additional information in order that I can investigate this as quickly as possible.

If you would like to email me with additional identifying information, Helen@adorama.com, I will work with the team manager to take whatever action is necessary to ensure that this will not happen again; we would also welcome the opportunity to make this up to you.

Once again my apologies, and I look forward to hearing back from you.
 
Well said Sergio.

I too remember when Red first came out and announced that they will democratize filmmaking for the indies. In fact I was one of the early buyers. But as their products matured, they had to face economic reality and decided to concentrate first on the high end. So it is ironic that it was actually Canon, Sony, and Panasonic that leveled the playing field for the indie guys.

I think Red still wants to reach the indie market with the S35 Epic-S (formerly Scarlet), but they will have trouble bringing the price down to the levels of the AF100 or even F3. I don't think it's a matter of protecting their high end, but rather a matter of their costs. Deep down, I think Red would love to reach the DVXuser market. But the Epic-S (target price $12k) is basically the same as the $28k Epic-X, except with lower frame rates. So maybe they can use a cheaper sensor for Epic-S and cut back on some electronics, but I think they will have trouble bringing the price down to $12k. And even then, that is just for the body. Add in battery, EVF/LCD, SSD module, I/O modules, and you're probably at $20k without lenses.

But back on topic. If you can afford it, I think the F3 definitely gives the best pictures and ease of use in the "budget" range S35 single sensor cameras. But to take full advantage of the picture quality, I think you really need to use an external recorder. But if your competitors are using 5D's, it may be better to go with an FS100 or AF100. You can clearly demonstrate a difference in picture quality between the FS100 and the 5D, but your client may not notice the difference between the FS100 and the F3 (with internal codec). And for the price of an F3, you can get 2 FS100's (or 2 AF100's), and offer your client a 2-camera shoot. Clearly an advantage there. Just my .02.
 
Well, let's keep in mind, that Nashville $500 is for the (3) Sony PL lenses. Which not everybody loves. But the body only is $350 a day. Not sure if that comes with any cards or batteries though. But, essentially, in Nashville it's possible to shoot Zeiss ZF lenses on the PMW-F3 for $500 a day, 3 day week. That's the reality.
 
Cost of living in NY is MUCH higher than in Nashville.

Average rent for a 400sq FT studio apartment in manhattan is $1600 a month. WE have london prices.

Hence why we have higher prices.
 
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