F3: Is the F3 still a good buy?

starcentral said:
422 vs 444

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?302433-8bit-XDCAM-(mpeg4)-vs-10bit-RGB-(ProRes444) (this is 8-bit compare)

XDCAM vs 422

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...roRes-422-220MB-s-Comparison-(Matthew-Allard)
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I can see a visual difference between Prores 422, 444 and uncompressed. Obviously the content is a factor here, but to my eye the difference is visible. It's pretty simple to see if you compress the same material and flip between 422/444 and uncompressed on the same frame, especially if it contains a good amount of movement.

And there is no doubt that the difference is very obvious once you start to grade the material.
 
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Harry Lime said:
I can see a visual difference between Prores 422, 444 and uncompressed. Obviously the content is a factor here, but to my eye the difference is visible. It's pretty simple to see if you compress the same material and flip between 422/444 and uncompressed on the same frame, especially if it contains a good amount of movement.

And there is no doubt that the difference is very obvious once you start to grade the material.
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So can I assume that you are not shooting SLOG with the uncompressed footage, but are with both 444 and 422 ? Also in 60p ?

Curious to see the differences between the three if you have the time. Have been kind of on the fence between the Video Device recorders and the Odyssey.
Much prefer the ergonomics and ease of the Video Device monitors, but wonder if it wouldn't be worth getting the 7Q+ for the 60p advantage (I don't have the paid upgrade).
By the way do you know if I can do uncompressed without the upgrade as well ?
My current recorder doesn't do it, so I never asked the question.
 
yoclay said:
So can I assume that you are not shooting SLOG with the uncompressed footage, but are with both 444 and 422 ? Also in 60p ?
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I always shoot sLOG in uncompressed 444.

Once in a blue moon I'll shoot Prores444, but now that Convergent Design added support for Prores 444HQ I will probably shoot that if I want compressed.

Curious to see the differences between the three if you have the time.
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I'd send you some frames, but after I did my testing I gave up on Prores and went with uncompressed 444. I did not see the point in shooting Prores since my projects are relatively short and I was willing to take the storage hit in exchange for IQ. I base my opinion not just on this testing but also on what I have seen in my day job in post production for many years. So, for me it's never really been a question, but a given that there is a difference in quality between Prores 422/444 and uncompressed HD.

Have been kind of on the fence between the Video Device recorders and the Odyssey.
Much prefer the ergonomics and ease of the Video Device monitors, but wonder if it wouldn't be worth getting the 7Q+ for the 60p advantage (I don't have the paid upgrade).
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I used the PIX240 and like the ergonomics, but the device was limited to Prores.

I'm extremely happy with the Odyssey. It has been 100% bullet proof and CD is constantly adding features via firmware. I expect the 7Q+ to be a very long lived device, as it will record RAW 4k from nearly every camera on the market. Also the OLED screen looks terrific.

By the way do you know if I can do uncompressed without the upgrade as well ?
My current recorder doesn't do it, so I never asked the question.
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My 7Q+ is straight out of the box and will do uncompressed HD 444 1920x1080 without an additional license etc.
 
yoclay said:
So can I assume that you are not shooting SLOG with the uncompressed footage, but are with both 444 and 422 ? Also in 60p ?

Curious to see the differences between the three if you have the time. Have been kind of on the fence between the Video Device recorders and the Odyssey.
Much prefer the ergonomics and ease of the Video Device monitors, but wonder if it wouldn't be worth getting the 7Q+ for the 60p advantage (I don't have the paid upgrade).
By the way do you know if I can do uncompressed without the upgrade as well ?
My current recorder doesn't do it, so I never asked the question.
Click to expand...

The new Video Devices recorders will take 50/60p from the F3. It's the older PIX240/PIX240i that top out at 30p in 1080p. It's a really tough call between them. I was tossing up between the PIX-E7 and the Odyssey (primarily just as an onboard monitor for my ACs, since I don't need external recording). And for the same price you get:

OLED vs IPS LCD
720p vs 1080p
No Timecode vs Timecode
Raw and Compressed Recording vs Just Compressed Recording
No real audio features vs Terrific audio features
Customisable 5-step False Colour vs 12-step False Colour
Well Built vs Built Like a Tank

So each has advantages over the other. It's a really, really tough call. I opted for the 7Q in the end because I found a fantastic deal on an ex-demo unit - but it was only saving a bunch of money that finally swayed my decision in a direction.

Had I not found the ex-demo unit, the audio and timecode capabilities of the PIX-E7 may well have swayed me that way. Or if I'd needed raw recording, well there's really only one way to go on that front.
 
Grug said:
The new Video Devices recorders will take 50/60p from the F3. It's the older PIX240/PIX240i that top out at 30p in 1080p. It's a really tough call between them. I was tossing up between the PIX-E7 and the Odyssey (primarily just as an onboard monitor for my ACs, since I don't need external recording). And for the same price you get:

OLED vs IPS LCD
720p vs 1080p
No Timecode vs Timecode
Raw and Compressed Recording vs Just Compressed Recording
No real audio features vs Terrific audio features
Customisable 5-step False Colour vs 12-step False Colour
Well Built vs Built Like a Tank

So each has advantages over the other. It's a really, really tough call. I opted for the 7Q in the end because I found a fantastic deal on an ex-demo unit - but it was only saving a bunch of money that finally swayed my decision in a direction.

Had I not found the ex-demo unit, the audio and timecode capabilities of the PIX-E7 may well have swayed me that way. Or if I'd needed raw recording, well there's really only one way to go on that front.
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Yes, I definitely like all of that. On the other hand I very much like the Pix-E5 for it's small footprint and on the A7S and other such cameras that is invaluable. However, you lose dual SDI and thus unless I am missing somehting, I am assuming 60p from the F3, which is a shame.

I suspect that Video Devices may have some upgrades at NAB. Would be interesting to see if they add RAW.
 
yoclay said:
Yes, I definitely like all of that. On the other hand I very much like the Pix-E5 for it's small footprint and on the A7S and other such cameras that is invaluable. However, you lose dual SDI and thus unless I am missing somehting, I am assuming 60p from the F3, which is a shame.

I suspect that Video Devices may have some upgrades at NAB. Would be interesting to see if they add RAW.
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Do you have the 4:4:4 upgrade on your F3? With the 4:4:4 upgrade you turn the SDI 'A' port into a 3G-SDI port, and can therefore output 1080p60 over a single cable.
 
yoclay said:
So can I assume that you are not shooting SLOG with the uncompressed footage, but are with both 444 and 422 ? Also in 60p ?

Curious to see the differences between the three if you have the time. Have been kind of on the fence between the Video Device recorders and the Odyssey.
Much prefer the ergonomics and ease of the Video Device monitors, but wonder if it wouldn't be worth getting the 7Q+ for the 60p advantage (I don't have the paid upgrade).
Click to expand...

The PIX-E5 would be able to do 60p as well.
 
No, I dont have the paid upgrade, but my understanding was that I could do 50/60p off the (A/B) ports if I have dual SDI inputs anyway. I believe Mitch Gross said this, though I dont know if he was referring to only the O7Q+ or any dual SDI recorder. Obviously that would not be in 444 though.
 
yoclay said:
No, I dont have the paid upgrade, but my understanding was that I could do 50/60p off the (A/B) ports if I have dual SDI inputs anyway. I believe Mitch Gross said this, though I dont know if he was referring to only the O7Q+ or any dual SDI recorder. Obviously that would not be in 444 though.
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Yep, without the upgrade it's dual link to get 60p.
 
I´ve F3 paid upgrade + Pix240 and since Aurora 3.0 upgrade SD was launched I´m able to get 12 bit RGB 4444 up 30p ProRes through single SDI connector, SDI F3 Port A output .

In regard color science, absolute incredible color results in strong files, I´m F3 lover.
 
arturrito said:
I´ve F3 paid upgrade + Pix240 and since Aurora 3.0 upgrade SD was launched I´m able to get 12 bit RGB 4444 up 30p ProRes through single SDI connector, SDI F3 Port A output .

In regard color science, absolute incredible color results in strong files, I´m F3 lover.
Click to expand...

Thats great but technically your only getting 10 bit out of the F3, even though your "recording" 12.
 
In other news... today the URSA Mini 4.6K ships! Nearly exactly a year after it was announced.

I spent a good few weeks last year thinking hard about pre-ordering the URSA Mini 4.6K, but in the end decided to go with the Sony F3 when I found a great deal on it for only US$1.2K

Now that I see how long it took for the Mini 4.6K to ship (plus who knows how much longer mine would take because I wouldn't have been in the first week of pre orders, so might have been a loooong way down the order queue), I am feeling extra good that I went with an F3 instead! :-D
 
IronFilm said:
Do you have to use dual link to get 12bit?
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To my knowledge as I used to own one and I'm 99% sure, there is no way to get a 12 bit signal out of the F3. Even my F5 or the 55 can not output a 12-bit signal over SDI, only 10-bit. The Sony RAW recorder gets 16-bit over the multi-pin interface.
 
Fotojorno said:
To my knowledge as I used to own one and I'm 99% sure, there is no way to get a 12 bit signal out of the F3. Even my F5 or the 55 can not output a 12-bit signal over SDI, only 10-bit. The Sony RAW recorder gets 16-bit over the multi-pin interface.
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If so that means the 444 signal is not true 444 if it is not 12bit?
 
IronFilm said:
If so that means the 444 signal is not true 444 if it is not 12bit?
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No. Bit depth and chroma subsampling are totally different things. The 4:4:4 isn't quite 'true' 4:4:4, but that's not because of the bit depth, it's because of the resolution of the sensor, and the nature of debayering.
 
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