Is the EVA1 popular or not?

[yoclay]

I honestly cannot understand how BM gets away with its absolutely atrocious lack of QC in its camera manufacturing process. People have received BMPCC4k cameras with white ghosting on the screen, buttons installed backwards (seriously, is anyone checking these cams before they go out the door), that don't turn on or shut off....etc. I asked this reviewer to do the BMPCC and guess what, the camera he received was defective: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULDtgsGr4BU Any conversation about BM cameras has to include their QC/dependability issues, and that is why I wouldn't touch any of their cameras for professional work with a 10 foot pole. Sorry for the tangent.

I watched the BMCuser community gaslight members who raised issues, accuse BH of having lots of false reviews, saying it was practically a conspiracy against the young upstart by established brands, etc Anything to deny what was going on. They might as well have been accusing everyone else of spreading fake news. Extremely defensive, hostile and some of the nastiest attacks I have ever received on any forum. Just disgusting. Further, as a colorist I repeatedly tried to point out that there is an aspect of BM cameras which yields an image that is unfortunately "colorized", it appears almost as if it lacks chroma information when the saturation is lifted and can shift into something strangely pastel. Further I have found that faces often lack nuance and are a bit wooden. BM cameras are great value and I really commend the company on that, but the QC issues, FPN and this strange palette always mitigated my trust in them. I have yet to see what BMraw yields, but I hope that it helps and that their color science has improved.

 

[Clermond]

with today's price drop I would guess the EVA1 not very popular..

 

[NorBro]

It seems anyone who has one loves it (for the most part), but it was just too expensive in today's world (still is, IMO).

 

[J.Brown]

Yes it's still a bit to much that asking price. They should replace that LCD to one that works and solve the ergo issues to sell. But I think it's to late. The train for the Eva1 has already left.

 

[Run&Gun]

Yes it's still a bit to much that asking price. They should replace that LCD to one that works and solve the ergo issues to sell. But I think it's to late. The train for the Eva1 has already left.

Kind of my feelings with the s35 VariCam's and the owner/op market. In my world, they ruled for at least a decade(2/3" tape and P2). Now, I only know of ONE LT in my market and I had one of my reps try to sell me a demo V35 for less than an LT, a year ago. The only problem, no one at 'this' level is interested. It's become a Sony world, again, IMO.

 

[NorBro]

Sometimes I think about the 'what-ifs'.

Imagine if the EVA1 was released without the handle and monitor - just a little box - for $3500, maybe $4K; who would buy it?

I might of back then (mid-2017).

Of course we don't know the numbers, but sometimes I wonder is it worth to sell 100 cameras at $8K or 500 at $4K. How much more money do you exhaust making 500 cameras? IDK

[That's a rudimentary and most likely inaccurate analogy, but sometimes these prices (for gear) are just baffling.]

 

[morgan_moore]

GH5s with ND and XLR and boxy 'pro' form would fly off the shelves. Why does the eva fall between two stools?

Bad lens mount
Bad lens mount
Price.

 

[Tom Roper]

If you have one, great, if you want one, that too. It's time to use these cameras, FS5/FS7/F5/F55/EVA1/S35/Varicam etc. and not worry about what's in the queue or what's happening in the camera market. I have always felt the EVA1 had a great image and would not hesitate to get one if I wasn't already set and happy with my F55 for 5+ years now.

 

[morgan_moore]

If you have one, great, if you want one, that too. It's time to use these cameras, FS5/FS7/F5/F55/EVA1/S35/Varicam etc. and not worry about what's in the queue or what's happening in the camera market. I have always felt the EVA1 had a great image and would not hesitate to get one if I wasn't already set and happy with my F55 for 5+ years now.

No one has hit on the Eva image. Just its release date, lens mount, price etc.

Your F55.. has everything to make it a workable tool on set
-short flange mount for good lens selection
-positive lock lens mount with enough rididity for pro lenses/focus motors
-raw recorder neat trustable solution
-funtional EVF

And of course available five years ago.

While you may like the image from the EVA I think you would miss some of the above list when you actually went on set with the thing.

 

[Alex Derrick]

Re: Blackmagic.
I repeatedly tried to point out that there is an aspect of BM cameras which yields an image that is unfortunately "colorized", it appears almost as if it lacks chroma information when the saturation is lifted and can shift into something strangely pastel. Further I have found that faces often lack nuance and are a bit wooden. BM cameras are great value and I really commend the company on that, but the QC issues, FPN and this strange palette always mitigated my trust in them. I have yet to see what BMraw yields, but I hope that it helps and that their color science has improved.

THIS RIGHT HERE IS THE TRUTH! Blackmagic fans run all over the internet defending their precious $2000 investments.

If you think the Varicam/Eva ship has sailed. I see them in Hollywood and Varicam content is all over NetFlix. Crazy Rich Asians a cinematic release shot on V35 is getting a lot of notoriety. Can't seem to think of any cinematic releases shot on Sony or Black magic... So Maybe she's not popular like a Sony, but then again Sony is not popular like Blackmagic. But you get what you pay for, and most of the jobs I book are based on my skill not what camera I have.

I dunno... thats just me.

peace

 

[Mitch Gross]

No one has hit on the Eva image. Just its release date, lens mount, price etc.

Your F55.. has everything to make it a workable tool on set
-short flange mount for good lens selection
-positive lock lens mount with enough rididity for pro lenses/focus motors
-raw recorder neat trustable solution
-funtional EVF

And of course available five years ago.

While you may like the image from the EVA I think you would miss some of the above list when you actually went on set with the thing.

Interesting list of atributes you selected there for the F55. They are shared by the VariCam LT, which has also been around for a few years now and sells for a similar but lower price than the F55. The EVA1 is at a considerably lower price point.

 

[Mitch Gross]

Re: Blackmagic.
I repeatedly tried to point out that there is an aspect of BM cameras which yields an image that is unfortunately "colorized", it appears almost as if it lacks chroma information when the saturation is lifted and can shift into something strangely pastel. Further I have found that faces often lack nuance and are a bit wooden. BM cameras are great value and I really commend the company on that, but the QC issues, FPN and this strange palette always mitigated my trust in them. I have yet to see what BMraw yields, but I hope that it helps and that their color science has improved.

THIS RIGHT HERE IS THE TRUTH! Blackmagic fans run all over the internet defending their precious $2000 investments.

If you think the Varicam/Eva ship has sailed. I see them in Hollywood and Varicam content is all over NetFlix. Crazy Rich Asians a cinematic release shot on V35 is getting a lot of notoriety. Can't seem to think of any cinematic releases shot on Sony or Black magic... So Maybe she's not popular like a Sony, but then again Sony is not popular like Blackmagic. But you get what you pay for, and most of the jobs I book are based on my skill not what camera I have.

I dunno... thats just me.

peace

Good points, Alex. For accuracy I'll note that Crazy Rich Asians was shot on the VariCam Pure, not the VariCam 35. The only difference between them is that one records to P2 cards in video and the other to Codex Drives in RAW.

 

[filmguy123]

All I know is it's been a year since basic quality of life improvements were requested and no firmware update has addressed any of them. I'd love to see better ongoing support for existing users. I know Panasonic will quote the promised spring 2018 raw update and some new lens additions, etc. but I wish some of these basic things had been addressed 12 months ago.

Still hopeful for a noteworthy firmware update someday soon addressing UI issues, etc.

 

[Run&Gun]

All I know is it's been a year since basic quality of life improvements were requested and no firmware update has addressed any of them. I'd love to see better ongoing support for existing users. I know Panasonic will quote the promised spring 2018 raw update and some new lens additions, etc. but I wish some of these basic things had been addressed 12 months ago.

Still hopeful for a noteworthy firmware update someday soon addressing UI issues, etc.

Who woulda thought that Sony, of all manufacturers, would have been the king of continual useful(awesome) firmware updates? At least for a few years...

I’m not a programmer and I know creating and implementing firmware updates for these cameras isn’t just a “nod your head and blink” and they’re magically done thing, but they have professionals that that’s what their jobs are...

I think some manufacturers may have a problem seeing shortcomings in their own products. Kind of like how a lot of parents think their kids are the best at everything in school and sports, when in reality they’re clumsy B students.

I can’t speak to the EVA-1, but it in the same vein, Panasonic has left a lot on the table with the VariCam LT. Some of my complaints with that camera and it’s operation could be easily addressed in a firmware update, but alas, no.

 

[Mitch Gross]

There were and continue to be many requests for firmware updates. There always are. Some requests are relatively easy to fulfill, some are impossible given the architecture of the camera. Please understand that users at places like DVXUser are important but certainly not the only constituents. We must prioritize and there are different markets with different needs, including different needs in places like China and India. That and there are only so many man-hours available and Panasonic Pro Video makes a number of products, all of which require attention.

There are more updates planned and UI features are certainly among them.

 

[Eric Coughlin]

Good points, Alex. For accuracy I'll note that Crazy Rich Asians was shot on the VariCam Pure, not the VariCam 35. The only difference between them is that one records to P2 cards in video and the other to Codex Drives in RAW.

Is there any difference in the image recorded between Codex and P2? I've sometimes wondered the same with external recorders; for example, are the files, image, etc., of say an Odyssey and an Atomos recording RAW on the same camera going to yield the exact same results (all those 1s and 0s are the same)?

 

[NorBro]

As far as external recorders, they will definitely not be identical.

I'm sure Mitch could explain (if interested) why this is, but I have found there to be shadow/highlight and color differences - even if minor - to some degree depending on the camera.

The post-production software matters too.

 

[Mitch Gross]

There are some incorrect comparisons being made here.

The VariCam Pure is RAW only. The VariCam 35 is video only. The VariCam LT can record internal video, and it can also output RAW.

The RAW from the Pure is identical to the RAW from the the VariCam LT, but there are different frame rate options.
The Pure can shoot 4K 12-bit up to 120p, the LT can shoot 4K 12-bit up to 30p, 4K 10-bit up to 60p, and cropped 2K 10-bit up to 240p.
Where the two overlap reslution, frame rate and bit-depth, the RAW images are identical. One is in a Codec wrapper and the other in CinemaDNG, but otherwise identical.
If you record to ProRes RAW then obviously there's some compression.

If you compare internal video recording (that's what's available on P2 in numerous flavors) to outboard video recording, then that is an entirely different matter.
Forget the VariCam Pure, as that output is for monitoring only.
The VariCam LT can output HD, but the 4K output is RAW only, so this comparison is a bit apple to oranges.
The VariCam 35 can output 4K video as well as record 4K video internally, so you could compare there.
But what are you comparing? 444? ProRes v AVC-Ultra? There are so many flavors and ways to skin the cat.
An Atomos recorder can only capture 4K in 422 10-bit. The VariCam 35 can internally record 4K in 444 12-bit.

If you say that you see some shadow/highlight differences, most likely this is because the video range is set differently as the material goes into your NLE. The internal recording may be extended (data) range, but the Atomos expects legal (video) range. so it appears more contrasty. It's easy in most NLEs to reset the range and nothing is being truncated so you get all the data when you reset. Most people don't know to do it.

I could go on, but there's so many way to answer this question. I mean, is there a difference between driving one car v another? Well, maybe, but that depends on a lot of factors. It could very well lead to identical results, or they could be wildly different. but in most cases, generally most people find they all kinda drive about the same for general use.

 

[Run&Gun]

There are some incorrect comparisons being made here.

The VariCam Pure is RAW only. The VariCam 35 is video only. The VariCam LT can record internal video, and it can also output RAW.

The RAW from the Pure is identical to the RAW from the the VariCam LT, but there are different frame rate options.
The Pure can shoot 4K 12-bit up to 120p, the LT can shoot 4K 12-bit up to 30p, 4K 10-bit up to 60p, and cropped 2K 10-bit up to 240p.
Where the two overlap reslution, frame rate and bit-depth, the RAW images are identical. One is in a Codec wrapper and the other in CinemaDNG, but otherwise identical.
If you record to ProRes RAW then obviously there's some compression.

If you compare internal video recording (that's what's available on P2 in numerous flavors) to outboard video recording, then that is an entirely different matter.
Forget the VariCam Pure, as that output is for monitoring only.
The VariCam LT can output HD, but the 4K output is RAW only, so this comparison is a bit apple to oranges.
The VariCam 35 can output 4K video as well as record 4K video internally, so you could compare there.
But what are you comparing? 444? ProRes v AVC-Ultra? There are so many flavors and ways to skin the cat.
An Atomos recorder can only capture 4K in 422 10-bit. The VariCam 35 can internally record 4K in 444 12-bit.

If you say that you see some shadow/highlight differences, most likely this is because the video range is set differently as the material goes into your NLE. The internal recording may be extended (data) range, but the Atomos expects legal (video) range. so it appears more contrasty. It's easy in most NLEs to reset the range and nothing is being truncated so you get all the data when you reset. Most people don't know to do it.

I could go on, but there's so many way to answer this question. I mean, is there a difference between driving one car v another? Well, maybe, but that depends on a lot of factors. It could very well lead to identical results, or they could be wildly different. but in most cases, generally most people find they all kinda drive about the same for general use.

Well... Correct me if I'm wrong, but... The Pure is basically the V35 head with a dockable CODEX V-RAW recorder in place of the dockable P2 recorder. But when the V35 system was originally released in '14, the original version CODEX V-RAW recorder was designed to lock onto the back of the dockable P2 recorder. So in essence the V35 was like an LT, because it recorded video internally, but RAW to an add-on recorder(albeit in a lock-on, multi-pin connection like an R5 or R7 on a Sony F55/5/Venice instead of via SDI to a stand-alone off-board recorder like the LT).

 

[NorBro]

If you say that you see some shadow/highlight differences, most likely this is because the video range is set differently as the material goes into your NLE.

No, it's not that...I was also answering the second part of his question and you answered his first part (see below for both parts):

Is there any difference in the image recorded between Codex and P2? I've sometimes wondered the same with external recorders; for example, are the files, image, etc., of say an Odyssey and an Atomos recording RAW on the same camera going to yield the exact same results (all those 1s and 0s are the same)?

From my experience, I've concluded it's impossible for the Atomos and Odyssey - two different products - to provide identical results in this case.

Right? I mean doesn't that make sense?

How could the Odyssey capture the exact same image the Atomos is capturing?