C200: Is the C200 + Ronin S too heavy?

A

adam777

Member
Hi

I've been looking at this camera for a while as I love it's raw image and I've been going through Hugo's real estate work.

I'm wondering if a stripped down C200 + Ronin S is too heavy for a middle aged smaller guy to do real estate walk throughs and agent intros with this gear?

I've seen people use the bmpcc 6k filming along side me while I do the photos for real estate, but once you add the cage ... I don't know ... are they the same weight?

Just not sure as I don't want to break my back. Love the image, colour, autofocus ...

Any advice welcome
 
that's hard to judge as we do not know what a middle aged smaller guy can carry, neither how long you want to shoot with it during the day. Hugo has a one 2min one take shot with this combination. Did you see it? Why don't you rent the stuff for a day and test it?

 
adam777 said:
Hi

I've been looking at this camera for a while as I love it's raw image and I've been going through Hugo's real estate work.

I'm wondering if a stripped down C200 + Ronin S is too heavy for a middle aged smaller guy to do real estate walk throughs and agent intros with this gear?

I've seen people use the bmpcc 6k filming along side me while I do the photos for real estate, but once you add the cage ... I don't know ... are they the same weight?

Just not sure as I don't want to break my back. Love the image, colour, autofocus ...

Any advice welcome
Click to expand...

As a fellow middle-ager, Canon and Ronin-S user (also architecture shooter) -> It is a heavy setup and the Ronin-S won't get rid of the bounce that comes with walking or running.

For an all-day commercial production the best route would be an EasyRig or similar along with a Flowcine Serene to take out the extra axis bounce especially if you are covering long distances.

If you using the Ronin-S I highly recommend DJI's Accessory Handles. They give you better stability and control than the single grip approach.

I'd also recommend to sit tight and wait for the Canon R5. It may be the solution you are looking for as a gimbal camera.

That's not to say it cannot be done without the Easyrig route. Here's a project I shot last fall as a one-man band. Canon EOS R on the Ronin-S with the Accessory Handles for the majority of the shots.


I have BTS and more info on my blog.

This was shot with the R in Clog & a mix of 4K and 1080 capture. I'm looking forward to R5 for 422 internal, 4K full-frame, log and the potential raw option. I say potential because we don't know yet if it'll be Cinema Raw Lite or a too-bloated codec.
 
Dual handles to distribute the weight across both arms? Doesn't seem prohibitively heavy to me, depending what other accessories are on board

I use the Ronin-s with an S1, 24-105, focus motor, ikan 7" monitor. I shoot it single-handed for full days
My arm built up to the weight. But I have to be careful to keep my wrist straight or I can hurt it. And I have to limit using the trigger or I can hurt my finger/hand. But the wright itself isn't deadly and if I was going dual handles with AF I think it would be quite manageable. YMMV
 
That’s going to be a heavy set-up in that context. I have a Ronin S with a 5DIV and sHD Focus 5 and it will wear you down quickly. These things aren’t designed to carry around and do long continuous shoots. If you need to do extended, several minute plus shots, look into the Steadicam Steadimate S set-up. I think they’re still on-sale and with a rebate(okay sale has ended, but rebate still in play). Adapter, arm and vest for $945 after rebate. I demo’d an Easyrig Vario a few years ago. Hard pass. Really haaarrrd pass. When I was younger I thought only clowns used them, but as I’ve gotten older I thought I’d give it an honest try for a week. Hated trying to use it, it was nothing but in my way and you still look like a clown in one. One thing that can help with the up/down z-axis bounce with the one-handed gimbals is to hold them at an angle instead of just vertically.
 
Clermond said:
that's hard to judge as we do not know what a middle aged smaller guy can carry, neither how long you want to shoot with it during the day. Hugo has a one 2min one take shot with this combination. Did you see it? Why don't you rent the stuff for a day and test it?

Click to expand...

Lotsa tale-tale gimbal giveaway movement. And he ALMOST pulled off that mirror shot. I would have given him applause if he had gotten it.
 
Personally, for me, heavier cameras deserve to be on a real Steadicam with a pro Steadicam op. I laugh at people mounting medium sized/weight cameras on one handed gimbals, it's such a bad match,
square peg being forced into a round hole. If you must use a one handed gimbal, don't mount a C200 on it, get a mirrorless camera. The only exception that makes a tiny bit of sense to me is if you have a C200B camera that stays on gimbal and
it's taken out for a single specific shot here and there.

Problem is shooters and clients often treat gimbal setups as "The" main camera that someone is expected to shoot with all day. If you're shooting real estate, you fall into this category. You probably aren't shooting with a crew
and circumstances and your clients will expect you to shoot with the rig for hours at a time and with a Ronin S and a C200, you'll be shaking and your back will be killing you in just a few minutes.

There are people mounting single handed gimbals onto Steadicam and Glidecam vests, using your hips and back to hold and balance the set up seems like a smarter move.
But once again, if you are going to buy a camera, a single handled gimbal, then some kind of vest arm combo, why not just learn Steadicam like you should?
It's like these people have gone 70% and just stopped. Gimbal movement sucks compared to Steadicam movement with a talented op. I shoot a decent amount of gimbal
with the Crane 2 and the Fujifilm X-T3, small and light weight set up and the end result is 90% as good as what I would get flying my C200. But when I edit the gimbal
footage, objectively, a good portion of it looks horrible because of the robotic movement of the gimbal, not because I screwed up the move. Gimbals look soulless and mechanical,
Steadicams look smooth and organic but they take a hell of a lot more skill to use well.

If you're shooting real estate, you're typically not creating an arty, narrative film, it's product to sell another product so maybe the mechanical, robotic feel doesn't matter? My vote would be to
buy a Canon mirrorless to match the color science from your C200, I guess you could wait for the R5 if you think you need 8K? Or just get an R or RP and make money with it? I cut our
X-T3 gimbal with our C200 and they look different, they aren't a great match but for that project, it will eventaully get massaged and color matched by a real colorist so I'm not too
worried about the match. I would also buy the Ronin SC over the S. The S is too heavy.
 
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Not sure what the duration is, but I'll use a monopod if I'm on the hoof for any length off time. Not sure about the Ronin, but a monopod beats handheld every time.
 
puredrifting said:
Personally, for me, heavier cameras deserve to be on a real Steadicam with a pro Steadicam op. I laugh at people mounting medium sized/weight cameras on one handed gimbals, it's such a bad match,
square peg being forced into a round hole. If you must use a one handed gimbal, don't mount a C200 on it, get a mirrorless camera. The only exception that makes a tiny bit of sense to me is if you have a C200B camera that stays on gimbal and
it's taken out for a single specific shot here and there.

Problem is shooters and clients often treat gimbal setups as "The" main camera that someone is expected to shoot with all day. If you're shooting real estate, you fall into this category. You probably aren't shooting with a crew
and circustances and your clients will expect you to shoot with the rig for hours at a time and with a Ronin S and a C200, you'll be shaking and your back will be killing you in just a few minutes.

There are people mounting single handed gimbals onto Steadicam and Glidecam vests, using your hips and back to hold and balance the set up seems like a smarter move.
But once again, if you are going to buy a camera, a single handled gimbal, then some kind of vest arm combo, why not just learn Steadicam like you should?
It's like these people have gone 70% and just stopped. Gimbal movement sucks compared to Steadicam movement with a talented op. I shoot a decent amount of gimbal
with the Crane 2 and the Fujifilm X-T3, small and light weight set up and the end result is 90% as good as what I would get flying my C200. But when I edit the gimbal
footage, objectively, a good portion of it looks horrible because of the robotic movement of the gimbal, not because I screwed up the move. Gimbals look soulless and mechanical,
Steadicams look smooth and organic but they take a hell of a lot more skill to use well.

If you're shooting real estate, you're typically not creating an arty, narrative film, it's product to sell another product so maybe the mechanical, robotic feel doesn't matter? My vote would be to
buy a Canon mirrorless to match the color science from your C200, I guess you could wait for the R5 if you think you need 8K? Or just get an R or RP and make money with it? I cut our
X-T3 gimbal with our C200 and they look different, they aren't a great match but for that project, it will eventaully get massaged and color matched by a real colorist so I'm not too
worried about the match. I would also buy the Ronin SC over the S. The S is too heavy.
Click to expand...

One of my audio guys has an SC and Sony a6x00. It's a feather.

And you know I agree with most of the rest, as well. A Ronin on a Steadicam arm is NOT a Steadicam. All it's really good for is taking the weight. Even the Tiffen demo video is mediocre.
 
puredrifting said:
Personally, for me, heavier cameras deserve to be on a real Steadicam with a pro Steadicam op. I laugh at people mounting medium sized/weight cameras on one handed gimbals, it's such a bad match,
square peg being forced into a round hole. If you must use a one handed gimbal, don't mount a C200 on it, get a mirrorless camera. The only exception that makes a tiny bit of sense to me is if you have a C200B camera that stays on gimbal and
it's taken out for a single specific shot here and there.

Problem is shooters and clients often treat gimbal setups as "The" main camera that someone is expected to shoot with all day. If you're shooting real estate, you fall into this category. You probably aren't shooting with a crew
and circumstances and your clients will expect you to shoot with the rig for hours at a time and with a Ronin S and a C200, you'll be shaking and your back will be killing you in just a few minutes.

There are people mounting single handed gimbals onto Steadicam and Glidecam vests, using your hips and back to hold and balance the set up seems like a smarter move.
But once again, if you are going to buy a camera, a single handled gimbal, then some kind of vest arm combo, why not just learn Steadicam like you should?
It's like these people have gone 70% and just stopped. Gimbal movement sucks compared to Steadicam movement with a talented op. I shoot a decent amount of gimbal
with the Crane 2 and the Fujifilm X-T3, small and light weight set up and the end result is 90% as good as what I would get flying my C200. But when I edit the gimbal
footage, objectively, a good portion of it looks horrible because of the robotic movement of the gimbal, not because I screwed up the move. Gimbals look soulless and mechanical,
Steadicams look smooth and organic but they take a hell of a lot more skill to use well.

If you're shooting real estate, you're typically not creating an arty, narrative film, it's product to sell another product so maybe the mechanical, robotic feel doesn't matter? My vote would be to
buy a Canon mirrorless to match the color science from your C200, I guess you could wait for the R5 if you think you need 8K? Or just get an R or RP and make money with it? I cut our
X-T3 gimbal with our C200 and they look different, they aren't a great match but for that project, it will eventaully get massaged and color matched by a real colorist so I'm not too
worried about the match. I would also buy the Ronin SC over the S. The S is too heavy.
Click to expand...

Thank you and thank you to everyone. I thought it would too heavy. I don't have the C200 yet, but I was about to pick one up over the next week or so.

Most of the real estate video guys are using log so they can see out the windows a little, or raw with the bmpcc with no autofocus. I'll work it out
 
Did you check the „shot with c200“ thread? There’s a video of a guy who shot a real estate video in Switzerland. In the bts you see him with the ronin. He skates with the Ronin. I find a slider essential for real estate. I even fly indoors with a Mavic 2 pro. Walking in the house with a gimbal only gets boring fast.
Here’s the bts
 
I have my Canon C500 MKII on a Zhiyun Crane 3S. I also spent the past year with an EOS R on a Crane 2. My more elaborate setup is a Ready Rig and Ronin. I was never able to have the patience to learn a steadicam so I don't have much to say on that. The EOS R and Crane 2 can be operated all day without much effort. If you practice and set your and set your gimbal rates the way that works best for you, it can look ok. The C500MKII and Crane take effort, but it is workable. I put the hand grip off on a mount on the side of the gimbal an the monitor on a mount on the other side of the gimbal. It becomes a two handed gimbal, but one that I can rest against my chest using the rear arm on the gimbal. The Ready Rig and Ronin setup is by far the best and I can operate without any noticeable bounce or mechanical looking panning while walking.

I would suggest looking at the Crane 3s over the Ronin S. If you know the shots you need to get, I don't think you would find it to heavy as long as you attach the hand grip to the gimbal so that you can use two hands.
 
Clermond said:
that's hard to judge as we do not know what a middle aged smaller guy can carry, neither how long you want to shoot with it during the day. Hugo has a one 2min one take shot with this combination. Did you see it? Why don't you rent the stuff for a day and test it?

Click to expand...

Loved how you got all the lighting ratios pretty close from different rooms and exterior vs interiors, etc.


Really cool stuff!
 
Arturo Sánchez Becerra said:
Ronin S+C200B+ Tokina 11-20+ counter weights. I have recently switched to the Feiyutech AK4500 and its much better
Click to expand...

That's gorgeous. Did you shoot in RAW?

Why is the feiyutech better? Easier to balance?

Is there a jib in the mix for the rising shots? Or a drone?

How did you do the lights coming on at the end?
 
I have the C200B, which is a completely stripped down C200. I remember in one of the shows a year or so ago they had a C200B on the Ronin S. So I bought the Ronin S. I have spent the last few days trying to make this a workable set up. I bought a pancake lens (24mm/2.8) and was mounting the monitor on the arm of the Ronin S to keep the weight off and stand a chance to balance it. The motors are strong enough, but I have to say, it just feels very heavy and not enjoyable to use. So I gave up, I mounted a EOR R instead, and now I'm wishing Canon will hurry up and make an RF mount lightweight wide prime. So yes, you can mount it, but no, I don't recommend it. Good luck
 
Thanks! I used a gimbal, moco slider, crane, drone, fluid head, etc
100% Raw
I'm currently using the Feiyutech because it properly balances the C200B with Tokina 11-20 and Sigma 18-35, no counterweights required.
My assistant turned on the lights in the spot, this house has an on/off switch for the whole lighting
 
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