Is the 5d Mark II really worth the price difference from 7D?
- Thread starter M1CEtro
- Start date
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
"distortion" is created by distance to subject
so the AF and 5d give similar distortion when the camera to subject distance is the same
S
so the AF and 5d give similar distortion when the camera to subject distance is the same
S
I'm trying to wrap my head around this, why does that combination of sensitivity and f-stop end up with an equivalent shot?
Chris S. Alexander
Well-known member
Identical in both the amount of noise and the depth of field.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Yes, as Chris said. Opening up the iris will match the depth of field. But also would result in overexposure -- so you would cut the ISO in half to compensate. And by cutting the ISO in half it lowers the noise. So yes, you end up with the identical composition, identical DOF, and equally low noise.
Dvader
Well-known member
Wow this thread is awesome for me since I didn't get this stuff totally before.
Wouldn't one of the advantages of the 5D be the ability to go ultra-wide like 7mm? Or 14mm on a less expensive lens?
Could you explain a little more about this please?
Wouldn't one of the advantages of the 5D be the ability to go ultra-wide like 7mm? Or 14mm on a less expensive lens?
Could you explain a little more about this please?
LoganMackay
Well-known member
Something like the Panasonic 7-14 at 7mm will be wider than anything you can get (affordably) for the 5D.
APS-C and Micro 4/3 sensors are both a lot closer to the size of 35mm (motion) film. The 5D sensor doesn't have an equal in the motion world, at least not any that is in common usage.
Dvader
Well-known member
okay that's interesting I cant seem to find 4-perf super35 only 3-per super35, but it seems really close to the APS-C size. Would this mean when shooting super35 your lenses would have a 1.6x crop factor just like the 7D?
The 1.6x crop factor is relative only to the Full Frame Still Photography format. The APS-C format is essentially the same size as the Super 35 motion picture format, so no crop factor applies. You would use the same focal length lenses with the APS-C format as you would with the Super 35 motion picture format.
AbelCine Field of View Comparator
http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-sigma-12-24mm-f4-5-5-6-ii-dg-hsm-canon-fit/p1524169
12mm on a 5D is equivilent to 6 mm on 4/3
Dave
Dvader
Well-known member
Wow I understood it related to 35mm still photography but had no idea it was the same for motion picture formats like super35. How cool.
So when Kubrick modified a 50mm f0.7 lens for Barry Lyndon into a 36.5mm f.07, shooting on 35mm motion picture film, what would the equivalent focal length be in 35mm full frame still photography terms?
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morgan_moore
Major Contributor
about 50
Barry_Green
Moderator
APS-C is the same size as 35mm movie film. Not the same size as Super35. Super35 is a little bigger.
If you were shooting 35mm cinema film, and you wanted to talk about the "crop factor" as relates to stills cameras, then yes the crop would be 1.6, same as a 7D.
With Super35, it's more like 1.5.
DavidBeier
Veteran
I can't believe it but I was totally suffering form the same mis-conception that Hans was. I've been shooting for years but I always thought that longer lenses compressed the perspected regaurdless of distance from the subject. I was so excited to start shooting with large sensor cameras because I thought I could finally stop backing my camera far away and zooming all the way in. I guess I'll have to start shopping for a nice 200mm lens if I want to keep the look I'm accustomed to...
Dvader
Well-known member
If a cinematographer shooting on 35mm cinema film says he's using a 28mm lens, does that mean he's really getting the equivalent of something around 50mm in 35mm still photography?
I've been taught that 50mm is a good portrait focal length while 28mm is a general wide focal length. Is this not the case for cinematographers shooting 35mm cinema film? Where for them 28mm would be a portrait lens and 18mm would be wide lens? I'm trying to understand what type of shot cinematographers would going for when calling out the focal lengths.
For instance, Kubrick got a 50mm lens to shoot the candlelight scenes in Barry Lyndon but he wanted it to be wider so they attached a projection lens to the front making it equivalent to 36.5mm, but would this really mean its 36.5mm x 1.6 crop factor in 35mm still photography terms?
Barry_Green
Moderator
Well, it means that he's getting a 28mm field of view on a 35mm movie camera. Cinematographers typically don't know or care about what that would mean in stills photography. What a lens looks like on a stills camera is irrelevant, because we're not shooting stills, we're shooting cinema, and what you need to orient your brain around is thinking of 35mm cine as the "normal".
But, to directly answer your question, a 28mm on a cine camera is about equivalent to about 45mm on a stills camera.
For stills.
Well, for cinema, we typically use 18 as about the widest general-purpose focal length lens, and 35mm for a normal, and 50mm for a telephoto. Your typical cinema lens set is 18mm, 25mm, 35mm, 50mm, and 85mm.
50mm would be a telephoto on a cinema camera. 36.5mm is a normal to mildly telephoto on a cine camera.
When will this still lens equivalence stop. This is a motion forum, learn what lenses do on motion cameras. Also when was the last time anyone around here shot full frame 35mm film. If you've been using digital for the last 10 years its likely been aps-c, which is very close 35mm motion. cinematographers love aps-c, because the framing and focal lengths are almost identical to what they shoot with in 35mm, perfect for lighting tests and location scouts whether it can shoot video or not.
You'll find that more often than not what a movie uses for a wide is a much longer lens than what you would consider wide, because it just looks better. They have room on big sound stages and exteriors to back up and use something like a 28mm for a wide, then move closer with a 40 or 50 for the close-up. They are not really using that big a range of lenses most of the time. It feels right because the camera is physically closer on the close-up and further away for the wide.
The necessity of what would be extremely wide lenses comes from working in cramped interior locations, or just accept that you can't get a full shot. Video zoom lenses have spoiled us into thinking that you can get wide, medium and close angles without ever moving the tripod. A long lens tight is a completely different feel from a normal lens close, move your tripod and give it a try.
You'll find that more often than not what a movie uses for a wide is a much longer lens than what you would consider wide, because it just looks better. They have room on big sound stages and exteriors to back up and use something like a 28mm for a wide, then move closer with a 40 or 50 for the close-up. They are not really using that big a range of lenses most of the time. It feels right because the camera is physically closer on the close-up and further away for the wide.
The necessity of what would be extremely wide lenses comes from working in cramped interior locations, or just accept that you can't get a full shot. Video zoom lenses have spoiled us into thinking that you can get wide, medium and close angles without ever moving the tripod. A long lens tight is a completely different feel from a normal lens close, move your tripod and give it a try.
Barry_Green
Moderator
This is very true. Like I said, the widest lens you'll usually encounter in any lens kit is 18mm. Now, on a 35mm stills camera people might complain that 18mm isn't wide enough, but in cine, an 18 equates to about a 28mm on a stills camera. And yet, that's as wide as we usually ever go. There are some specialty lenses that are wider, but in general, an 18 is about it.
reem12
Veteran
For me the 5d is my work horse. It is just something about this cam with a 24mm and 5omm 1.4 nikon that makes me melt. the image is just beautiful. As for managing focus. A proper F stop is the key. I do love the 7d as well but the dynamic range and feild of view on the 5d is what sold me.