FS7: Is selling an FS7 in a crashed economy a terrible idea?

T

thoomp

Member
Hey gang,

I have a question for you all - especially you seasoned shooters out there.

Long story short, I'm trying to determine if my continuing to try selling my FS7 is a terrible idea in our currently crashed economy. Should I cut my losses and just hang onto it? (For reference, the camera and kit in question remains for sale over in the FS section, but that's not the question.) What would you do?

After shooting for a few years with my Canon 5D2 and a Canon XF100 (4:2:2), I invested quite a few bucks on my used FS7 back in the summer of 2017 for a shoot and got some stellar footage from it. The FS7 is an amazing camera, and I love the results. However, it has largely sat since then. I originally figured that the cost of ownership over 2+ years with normal depreciation would be a better idea than renting it. As I'm still paying it off on my credit card, I figured in early January, that it was time to sell it as I wasn't using it much.

So with news of the FX9, at the end of January, I finally got around to posting it here as a full kit and on a few other websites. Even on eBay, but with local pickup only (as I was worried about scammers). Maybe I was asking too much for it, but I figured I'd get more interest than I did.

And then the pandemic and the economy hit...with apparently many of us in production being out of work.
Talk about bad timing.

All this being said, this feels like a question like: "The stock market crashed -- should I get out?" If it were stock, one never wants to sell low. But this is tech that depreciates over time and doesn't go up. With so many of us out of work, I wouldn't be surprised if others sell theirs as well. I could hang in there if I can't sell it; thankfully it's not a desperate emergency sale.

Per my workflow, the key thing that the FX9 has (like the new Sony Alphas) which I would LOVE is autofocus for self-filming - which is missing on the FS7 - and would be a game-changer for me. But I couldn't afford an FX9, even in a good economy. Otherwise, the FS7 is great for my needs when I'm behind the lens and not in front of it. But I'm just worried that it'll depreciate down to zero if I just hang onto it and wait. Plus, given the pandemic -- I doubt there'll be many filming opportunities anytime soon due to the pandemic.

Plus, letting it around or below 4K feels incredibly wrong to me -- as that's Sony Alpha money right there.

So after almost of 3 months of having it out on the open market, I'm very tempted to say "screw it" -- and unpack those B&H/Adorama original boxes and set up my kit again...and just look forward to the day when I can film again...and damned be the depreciation.

Would love your thoughts. Thanks!
 
Man, personally, I would hang onto it and get it unpacked and ready to shoot again. I think a lot of us are about to go through a hard stretch where work isn't anywhere near as prevalent as it was. That does depend on the industry you're in, but for the majority of us it's going to be a tough road for the rest of the year. As such, I would venture to say that many people will either let go of some of their gear while they can at lower prices just to get some cash or at the very least hang onto what they have until things are back to normal. So with that being said, I would hang tight to what you have and prepare for a slow next several months.
 
It's a tough call. I''m on the other side of your question. I've been looking at those cheap FS7s on ebay and have been very tempted to get one. But I've resisted the urge. I've resisted for the same reasons you're hedging. It is impossible to know how the used market will perform when business returns. A decent guess is that prices will pick up. But ... as you said, is that true for things like cameras?

Here's one thing that puzzles me - you can't afford the FX9, but it has a feature you really like. You don't use the FS7. But for one feature, the FS7 is what you want. So it seems you are bringing the FX9 into the equation for no reason. It sounds like another camera that you wouldn't use much.

I'd guess (remember, I said guess, not recommend) you have little to lose sitting on it in hopes of a better market. BUT - a lot of people are/will sell their FS7s for the FX9 now and in the future. So bugger, will the FS7 price decline even more? It's had long legs in a short-life market. This may be the time when people start thinking it has gotten long in the tooth and start moving on.

Ok, that should have made things perfectly obscure. I'm glad I could help.
 
Since it's not an emergency sale and $4K or less wouldn't be too ideal for you, I would keep it.

If the FX9 was $6K or so, it would make sense to "swap" them and use the transaction money to pay for more than half of it, but the FX9 is a much bigger investment which maybe isn't the best course of action at this time.

If you can hang on and video production is in your future for the long run, I would use the camera a bit more and eventually jump on the FX9 when it's a better time (especially when discounts and "instant savings" come and go).

On a side note, if you're interested in self-filming any current content (like YouTube, etc.) that could make you money, there are several amazing Sony mirrorless AF cameras to choose from that have just as good if not better AF than the FX9 including the a6400, a6600 and a7RIV.
 
The footage this camera can produce will not change in the next year or two, but the price you can sell it for sure will. My fs7 has been an amazing investment, having paid for itself over the years of using it and earning me money on top of it. If I were to sell for cheap now, it wouldn't hurt quite as bad..

In your situation, I would keep it -because it won't stop being able to earn you money. PLENTY of the world is totally fine with MPEG 1080/60i.... I wouldn't sell it until the cameras made you enough money to feel like you could give it away - then you sell it cheap, it sells fast, and some other aspiring lad or lass gets a good deal on their first camera.

just my 2 cents :)
 
It really is a buyer's market right now. I'm seeing FS7's on Ebay for <$3K and I'm tempted but who knows what the future holds with this situation. Even when the lockdown ends the economic percussions could be felt for some time. IMO you shouldn't sell your FS7 for less than you feel comfortable doing so...
 
I've been tracking FS7 prices on ebay and I think they've dropped about $500 since the lockdown. Maybe they'll drop further. Maybe they'll rebound, but the model could naturally decline in value by then and be a wash.

The specs of the camera will still be marketable in the foreseeable future.

If you want AF and can settle for a lesser codec, you may consider the upcoming FX6 or A7S3. Or a Canon camera (unless you're heavy into E-mount lenses). I've also read that the X-T4 has good AF.
 
A7S3 seems to be a fantasy wrapped inside a nightmare and stuffed inside a glass slipper.

But FX-6 should be announced in a week (Sony's streamer on the 30th) and it should have quality AF and full frame.
 
You guys are amazing, and thanks for all your super-fast replies. (And if anyone else wants to chime in, of course I'll be all ears - particularly as thankfully I'm in no crazy rush here.) Seriously - every reply above has been incredibly thoughtful and so well thought out. Thank you for your insights.

Given the changed circumstances as opposed to when I first listed it during the last week in January, maybe hanging onto it really is the right idea after all - and not panic and "sell low."

Most of my FS7 filming is for a small series I'm trying to put together, with the hope that there'll ultimately be funding/advertising for it down the road -- with the idea that the polished results will help me achieve that goal. I'm also hopeful that eventually I'll pick up a few standard paying gigs, whenever the world gets back to normal. I don't anticipate earning any money filming with it in the near future, but one can hope.

You're absolutely right about deliverables and that's a great point; 1080i remains just fine for most of the world in 2020. Moving to the FS7 continues to afford me plenty of options in post with 4K, and the colorspace is a game changer. I seriously doubt I'd need more in both departments anytime soon.

FX9 - Sorry to muddy the equation there...it was more of the idea that people may be selling their FS7s now in favor of the FX9...so that would spur me to sell mine now as well before it's too late...and not to replace mine with one anytime soon. But down the road (5 years?), should the need be there and I could score a heavily used FX9 for $5K, maybe I'd revisit buying one then. Yup - I haven't been filming much lately - and it would be stupid for me to upgrade to something I wouldn't need and probably wouldn't use.

FX6 - The rumors of this have scared me as well, especially if it was 4:2:2 internal and potentially as strong as the FS7 -- all of which has admittedly prompted me to quickly sell the latter. In that case, I'd hope to sell the FS7 now and potentially buy an FX6 down the road, if and when I'd need it. But if the FX6 winds up being 4:2:0, I'd definitely pass. I love the FS7's internal codec without the need for external recorder and can't go back. (The only thing is if XAVC-I is missing, which from what I understand - if I love SLog3, I wouldn't be happy with XAVC-L, right?)

Per the A6600, you read my mind. In fact, I jumped on a lightly used one up in January for both photography and AF for light self-filming purposes - with the thought that I'd quickly sell the FS7 to fund it. I was lucky to sell both my A5100 and an Atomos unit to fund part of it, which dropped a bit of the pressure for me to sell the FS7.

Now you guys have me thinking - I really should stay put, enjoy the A6600 (B-cam, photography, quick self-filming duty on demand), and bring out the FS7 rig for dedicated and no-compromise filming days - with the proper mics, ND filter, Slog3, 4:2:2 internal recording, etc.

I think maybe tomorrow morning, I'll make myself a cup a coffee, open those boxes, and pretend it's Xmas morning and see how I feel. I think part of what made my original decision to sell so difficult -- was that I really enjoyed filming with the FS7 -- that I loved the footage it produced -- and the fact that it took me a long time to get my rig exactly how I wanted it. Yes, I had agonized about selling it in the first place. Once I made the decision to sell, I boxed and sealed it all up and tried not to look back - and tried to think of it purely as a cold financial decision to pay off the credit card debt that has haunted me since the purchase.

It's just such a scary time for so many of us for the obviously reasons, and I don't want to lose my head out of fear of "what's going to happen?" Standing pat seems like a safe move, and your reassurance is incredibly helpful.

Finally, I thank all of you for your words of solidarity -- as I fear that all of us freelancers may have an exceptionally rocky road ahead. However, my hope is that after all this settles down, our world will still need pro-grade creative talent to make our world a better place -- whether it's for entertainment or to inspire -- as opposed to amateur stuff that's haphazardly produced at home on iPhones during quarantine. ;)
 
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Unless you absolutely needed money right now to keep from losing your house, I would not sell anything. It's a buyers market right now and nothing is "worth" anything on the used market.
 
thoomp said:
Once I made the decision to sell, I boxed and sealed it all up and tried not to look back...
Click to expand...

I've done this too many times...years ago I learned to box up only when the money is in hand/account.

Keep the camera up for sale for the price you want, but don't worry about selling it. If that makes sense.
 
Keeping the ads up, but unpacking it and enjoying it does make sense - it can't hurt, right?

One thing also just came to mind. Aside from the autofocusing, it still really gets the results I want when I need it. Put it this way...I still edit using a 10-year old Mac Pro tower that I've souped up and I hope to continue to enjoy using it for years to come. Again, I had thought about selling it when it was still worth more, but it continues to prove useful every single day in 2020. If I was filming with the FS7 regularly, I wouldn't think too much about selling it in the first place.

I think it's sort of like buying a car and either (1) selling it before it depreciates heavily, or (2) saying screw it and just driving it into the ground. I was hoping to get out with (1) now as I wasn't using it as much as I had liked, but in light of the unforeseen circumstances (2) may make more sense anyhow.

BTW - A side question is if the FX6 will obsolete the FS7. The 4:2:0 internal in the FS5 was a dealbreaker for me, so I figured that's what would be in the FX6. Would 4:2:2 in an FX6 kill the FS7? Or is the underlying issue about the XAVC-L vs XAVC-I codec? Put it this way -- I can really push things in post with SLog3 in the FS7 (low light, colors, etc.) and I wouldn't want to lose that functionality. And if the only other option for such latitude in post would be an FX9, I'd never spend that kind of money anytime soon...so I'd be back to the FS7 anyway. Any explanations on this, I'd love to know.

Cheers and thanks again, everyone.
 
4:2:2 wouldn't but 4K/60p and/or IBIS would. 4K/60p is likely. And a smaller body with modern AF would be icing on the cake.

At the end of the day - no matter what we say - we all like new toys and eventually cameras that cost more than cars end up going for a few hundred dollars on eBay.
 
One [roblem with FX9 is the difficulty of match FS7 in Slog3. I may have come up with a solution but its not neccessarily easy ( more testing might improve the ease. But for now I have clients that like to shoot m,ulticams with the FS7. I have an FX9 I won't sell FS7 because I will lose more money in a single day of multicam than I would lose by the price going down. Unexpected . So I'm waiting for now. I doubt the price will go much lower than it is now but who knows - the F3 dropped like a rock when the FS7 came out.
 
thoomp said:
So after almost of 3 months of having it out on the open market, I'm very tempted to say "screw it" -- and unpack those B&H/Adorama original boxes and set up my kit again...and just look forward to the day when I can film again...and damned be the depreciation.
Click to expand...

Reading between the lines I think you feel guilty because you know you've already got a great camera in your hands, but you're not using it. So get out an use it. That is the solution to your mental state. There's dozen of ways to make money with a camera like the FS7 even in this market. The simplest way is just to go out and shoot some great 4K stock footage. Or stay home and shoot some great stock footage. The key is to shoot something! You'll gain experience and confidence with the camera while planting seeds for a future royalty stream. My FS7 has paid for itself over and over again just from shooting stock in my spare time, and I had fun doing it. I am a better shooter since getting into stock footage. Read Malcolm Gladwell's book Outliers to learn how practice makes you better. It is true. You're in Cambridge, right? There's a thousand and one things you could be shooting in Boston and vicinity. Get out and start shooting in the morning, or get serious about selling the camera for whatever you can get for it.
 
Just wanted to thank you guys again for all your advice. Really amazing. I'll stay tuned for more advice if anyone wants to chime in.

Ultimately, I'm going to keep the ads up, but not expect anything -- except to just enjoy the FS7 until further notice. :)

Well, I wound up unpacking everything and it felt good. I revisited both the rig and it's storage, and I took the time to tweak things and make a few adjustments - which was great.

The key issue with the FS7 is the time it takes to properly set-up and take everything down - but that's pretty much the deal for filming days. I think I'll likely find myself reaching for the A6600 for last minute shooting - and just deal with the lower codec, etc. So hopefully I'll have the best of both worlds.

Again, I may have missed the bus on selling it earlier to pay off the credit card, but I consider myself ridiculously lucky to have it in the first place and hope to enjoy it to its fullest. Cheers! :)
 
WHat is the camera worth? Who wants it?

For $3g you can probably cobble together a better picture.. BM4k and some bits.

Now the kiddo (yes 15) I know who is putting together kit did just that BM4k and some bits.

Yep I told him all about a VND being a pain , offboard audio being a pain.. but no listen.. again he's shooting a pop vid in a local bar.. doesnt need audio or ND

So yep he bought a good picture for under $3g. A better picture than the FS7. And it flies on his zanbong crane and uses batteries from his 60d.

--

'We' get it - want onboard sound, internal ND long roll time, hot swap cards.. 'we' are in business where time on set is money.. but we bought it four years ago. So 'we' dont want it and the kids dont want it.. it has no value. Because no one wants it.


Of course at some point the kiddo builds a business has to cover a conference and needs hot swap cards.. that is the person who needs it.. the one stepping up thier business.

Or maybe someone in africa or the eastern bloc where $750 is a lot of money.

But for the westener building a business the cost of a camera vs an offcie, rent, a vehicle, employees is nothting.. they would use that money for deposit on an FX9/C300ii and get the rest on credit.

so they dont want it either

I think the argument Im building here is to keep it as a B cam, but NEVER throw it in free. If they want a Bcam they can pay for a Bcam. And they get a Bcam, hot swap cards, long roll time, ND.
Caertainly any FX9 users with a pool of BPU batteries, XQD and emount lenses or converters should be keeping it?
 
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