Is Native 24p higher quality than 24p?

mojo43 said:
Do you know if a faster will card solve this problem?
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That's what I'm thinking. Let's face it, the GH1 hardware is going to bottleneck at some point and it won't matter how fast the SD card is. Maybe that point has been reached already.

Randy
 
That's what I was thinking. I tested with the star chart test and it seemed that I got the error with my class 6 card just as fast as I did with the class 10 card. Now it is true that the class 6 may be rated higher but I doubt it. I am going to pick up a sandisc class 10 tonight to retest again. I heard that the sandisc card has one of the highest ratings???
 
mojo43 said:
That's what I was thinking. I tested with the star chart test and it seemed that I got the error with my class 6 card just as fast as I did with the class 10 card. Now it is true that the class 6 may be rated higher but I doubt it.
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There are undoubtedly some Class 6 cards out there that are faster than some Class 10 cards. The Class rating only references a MINIMUM writing speed, not the maximum. If the card was released prior to the Class 10 designation being available, then even if it was capable of 30 megabytes per second, it would still have been called Class 6.

I am going to pick up a sandisc class 10 tonight to retest again. I heard that the sandisc card has one of the highest ratings???
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In the tests I've seen (and done), the fastest consistent performers are the Sandisk Extreme 30mB/sec Class 10, and the Panasonic Gold Class 10.
 
Barry_Green said:
There are undoubtedly some Class 6 cards out there that are faster than some Class 10 cards. The Class rating only references a MINIMUM writing speed, not the maximum. If the card was released prior to the Class 10 designation being available, then even if it was capable of 30 megabytes per second, it would still have been called Class 6.


In the tests I've seen (and done), the fastest consistent performers are the Sandisk Extreme 30mB/sec Class 10, and the Panasonic Gold Class 10.
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Barry, have you shot the Pappas star chart the Sandisk extreme card on C settings with native 24p checked? If so, did you get memory card errors?

(it would help to know the result, but if you haven't tested this I can pick up a card tonight to test it out)
 
I haven't shot that, nor do I have that Sandisk card. Couldn't find anywhere local selling it, so I got the Panasonic instead.
 
The new guys have to remember that the Native 24p has a BUG. A sandisk 30mb/s card (or the panasonic card) will allow you to use the Native 24p patch but it still has a BUG that the cards are just making up for. That's like putting a bandage on a wound. Yeah you can't see it anymore but it's still there.. and could become a problem at any moment.

I have to remind everyone that this hack is not a product. It was never intended to "FIX" anything. So those folks I keep coming across claiming "I just bought this GH1 and I can't get the hack to work for XXXXXX reason, WTF this is crap, etc, etc..), it is an ongoing research TEST and NONE of these settings are perfect nor guaranteed to work regardless of who says they are working. If anything we are still finding issues that may or may not be able to be fixed.
 
Svart said:
So those folks I keep coming across claiming "I just bought this GH1 and I can't get the hack to work for XXXXXX reason, WTF this is crap, etc, etc..),
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Just to make sure that the above comment isn't directed to me... I am testing to find a suitable shooting setup with an understanding of what's going on.

The bug with native 24p. Is that the spikes that are being reported?
 
mojo43 said:
Just to make sure that the above comment isn't directed to me... I am testing to find a suitable shooting setup with an understanding of what's going on.

The bug with native 24p. Is that the spikes that are being reported?
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It wasn't directed at anyone specifically, I just see an influx of folks who haven't been around since the beginning of this who (somewhat understandably) haven't read through all of the threads talking about the various problems with the hack and all of the testing that has been done. It's human nature to skip to the good parts.

So far, the Native 24p is buggy and causes HUGE bitrate spikes, much higher than is useful or necessary. This is only part of the bug. Only the fastest cards can be used with the Native 24p patch.

"normal" cards can't handle the overload of bitrates and will give you the "card speed" error under these conditions even though they might normally be able to handle a high bitrate.

A class 10 card means it can take 10MB/s(notice the big MB, megabytes) which is 80mb/s(megaBITS). that means you could theoretically set your bitrate to be 80mb/s and your card would normally be able to handle it. In practice you will get bitrate fluctuations and it might error so most folks derate their bitrate settings a small amount. Most folks I think are using class 10 cards with the "C" settings with no problems as long as they don't use Native 24p.
 
I am just trying to make sure that the error that is being produced is because of the card and not the camera...

So the theory is (even with the bug that exists in 24p native) that so long as there are no spikes above what the card can handle then there should be no errors... correct?
 
mojo43 said:
I am just trying to make sure that the error that is being produced is because of the card and not the camera...

So the theory is (even with the bug that exists in 24p native) that so long as there are no spikes above what the card can handle then there should be no errors... correct?
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That's the theory. The problem is that this hack and any other hack(computers, etc) can be unpredictable. That's the purpose of many people testing this hack. Anybody who modifies their firmware and tries it out is now TESTING this hack. :)

But this necessitates mentioning that because this IS a hack, IF your camera were to have real problems, which is likely to be rare, you wouldn't actually be able to tell if the camera or the hack were the real problem.

Also since hardware can have slight differences that are generally beyond the designed operation of the camera (where this hack operates), there is a good chance that some cameras might not work as well as others under some circumstances. Yet again, this is the purpose of the testing, to figure out what is "normal" and what is not.
 
Ok, I just picked up the card and shot the Pappas star chart. I did it with three different cards:

1) Core Micros 16GB Class 6 (cheapo)
2) Panasonic 8GB Class 10 (gold)
3) Sandisk Extreme 8GB Class 10


I shot 1080p with C settings with the 24p native checked with the stock lens.

The 1) lasted on average 20 sec, the 2) lasted on average 25 sec and the 3) lasted on average 40 sec before error.

Hope this helps the next person!
 
So I tried Pappas star chart of death just now. Did it at ISO 1600. My settings are native 24p "D" settings AVCHD f/8.0 with kit lens. Recorded with my class 6 card for about 5 minutes couldn't get it to crash. Then I recalled that Pappas advised to jack up the contrast and mine was in -2 so I set everything to +2 and sure enough after about 10 seconds of static filming kaboom "Writing stopped". Curious.
 
guys just out of curiosity I heard some people lament that they wish cards were faster etc...well ya'll seem to mostly be using class 10 30mb/s cards but I saw they already have 60mb/s and even 90mb/s. No idea what "class" those are but they should be something like class 20 or 30 if class 10 only does 30mb/s and class 6 is like 15mb/s . I can't see how a 90mb/s card would crash if the highest spikes I've heard of were 70mb with the hack. However the 90mb/s cards can be as high as $900 for the 64gb version so...maybe that's why no one is using/testing them.
 
Homunculus said:
guys just out of curiosity I heard some people lament that they wish cards were faster etc...well ya'll seem to mostly be using class 10 30mb/s cards but I saw they already have 60mb/s and even 90mb/s. No idea what "class" those are but they should be something like class 20 or 30 if class 10 only does 30mb/s and class 6 is like 15mb/s . I can't see how a 90mb/s card would crash if the highest spikes I've heard of were 70mb with the hack. However the 90mb/s cards can be as high as $900 for the 64gb version so...maybe that's why no one is using/testing them.
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The Sandisk extreme claims 30 MB/s (bytes). I believe that translates to 240 Mb/s (bits). That unfortunately crashes as I mentioned above...
 
Not sure if this is the right place to ask, If anyone has an extra few minutes, could you post a screen grab from the cam showing the different setting of the hack?
 
mojo43 said:
The Sandisk extreme claims 30 MB/s (bytes). I believe that translates to 240 Mb/s (bits).
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Yes, but that claim is for maximum, not minimum, transfer rate. And it doesn't say whether that's for writing or reading.

The Class rating is the only guarantee of writing speed. And that card is Class 10, which means that it is only guaranteed to support 80 megabits per second.

I don't have one of those cards, I keep meaning to get one and put it through the CrystalDiskMark test. I suspect it will support at least 20 megabytes per second (160 megabits) of sustained write speed, but if it does, that's a bonus. The only guarantee is that it will sustain 10 megabytes (80 megabits).
 
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