FS5: Is it worth it to hold out for Shogun Inferno, or just invest in 7Q+ instead?

Same here - but they still didn't answer my questions (asked the 3rd time in row):

"Hi Shahid,

Please also remember about my question which has never been answered:

- When recording from FS& SDI RAW, and encoding to DNxHR (or Prores), which Gamma curve is baked in? One of the S-log Gammas must (S-Log2 or S-log3) be selected in-camera in order to activate RAW output – will it be this one which is applied by Inferno?
- Or it doesn’t matter which S-log curve is selected in the camera, and instead Inferno will apply the same Gamma and Gamut which is selected on the Inferno’s own AtomHDR menu for monitoring?

Please answer these questions as nobody seems to know how to get full control over which of the two S-log gammas is applied when encoding Prores or DNxHR from FS7’s RAW SDI output! Also, a related but more general question:

- Are the Gamma and Gamut, selected in AtomHDR settings on the Inferno, automatically “baked-in” to Prores/DNxHR encoding (with either SDI or HDMI input) – or are they just for HDR monitoring purposes? If they’re just for monitoring – again: will Inferno apply the same gamma into Prores/DNxHR which is set on camera?

Thanks and Regards

Piotr"

So still unsure how it really works :(
 
Sorry for being ignorant on this but what is point in selecting a camera raw output that you want to record in ProRes or DNxHR?
I mean wouldn't you want to record in CDNG?
 
The answer is very simple: I often record action in 4K@50p, but HDMI out is only 8bit 420 at framerates higher than 30fps so I must use RAW SDI (via the XDCA extension). This is the only way to get 10bit 422 out from the FS7 for external recording :(

On the other hand, I let my Shogun encode this signal to DNxHR rather than CDNG for practical reasons (filesize mainly).

Piotr
 
Yes, RAW is a wast for most people. We have to jump through all these hoops just to get a decent ProRes recording.
 
moldcad said:
The answer is very simple: I often record action in 4K@50p, but HDMI out is only 8bit 420 at framerates higher than 30fps so I must use RAW SDI (via the XDCA extension). This is the only way to get 10bit 422 out from the FS7 for external recording :(

On the other hand, I let my Shogun encode this signal to DNxHR rather than CDNG for practical reasons (filesize mainly).

Piotr
Click to expand...
Got it!
 
Is the HDMI out on the FS5 at 24FPS 4K, 10 bit or 8 bit? By the time Atomos maybe gets around to fixing this, i'll have my movie finished.
 
I finally got response from Atomos Support on which S-log is baked-in the Prores/DNxHR recording (I bolded out the most important info):

"When recording FS-RAW the Shogun receives 12-bit linear data from the camera. This is converted to either 10-bit Slog2 or Slog3 before been encoded to DNX/ProRes. The gamma curve used is set on the Inferno unit. Changing between Slog2 and Slog3 on the camera does not effect the input received by the Shogun. The Gamut option on the Shogun only effects the display, the recorded data is untouched in terms of gamut.Only the gamma option is burned into the recording as this is needed to compress the 12-bit linear into 10-bits suitable for ProRes recording."

So now we know, at last....

Piotr
 
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I asked about HDMI input, and here is the answer:

"For HDMI, the Slog2/Slog3 gamma will be dependent on camera setting. The Atomos HDR gamma and gamut will effect monitoring only.
It is only for FS-RAW to ProRes/DNX that the Atomos HDR gamma setting has an impact to the data recorded to disk".

So it's worth to remember: with AtomHDR monitoring, it's only with RAW SDI input from FS7 when the gamma, selected for monitoring on the Shogun, is also actually baked into the Prores/DHxHR encoding!

Piotr
 
That are interesting findings/informations. So, when we convert raw to ProRes/DNxHR, either slog2 or slog3 will be applied.

Good to know that the Atomos HDR has here also an impact to the recorded data.
 
Hi Wolfgang,

do you think this only applies to "ATOM HDR" mode and not to "LOG TO VIDEO" mode?

Cheers,
Alex
 
moldcad said:
"When recording FS-RAW the Shogun receives 12-bit linear data from the camera. This is converted to either 10-bit Slog2 or Slog3 before been encoded to DNX/ProRes. The gamma curve used is set on the Inferno unit. Changing between Slog2 and Slog3 on the camera does not effect the input received by the Shogun. The Gamut option on the Shogun only effects the display, the recorded data is untouched in terms of gamut.Only the gamma option is burned into the recording as this is needed to compress the 12-bit linear into 10-bits suitable for ProRes recording."
Click to expand...

It's my understanding that Sony S-Log 3 covers a larger color gamut area than the Sony sensor can "see" and that S-Log 2 is more accurate in that regard. As wonderful as raw (it's not an acronym so shouldn't be capitalized) footage is to manipulate in post - and I am a Red Dragon owner/operator for several years now shooting it, there's a lot to be said about log footage manipulation in post production that shouldn't be overlooked if the Inferno is treating your raw footage with applied LUT/Gamma curves before recording and not doing that to identical log footage.

If your explanation above refers only to Inferno HDR monitoring, then sending out a log signal should fix that issue, unless I'm missing something here.
 
Ok thanks so much for these informations! So when we select slog3 on the camera and Rec709 on the Inferno it will burn in Rec709 to the footage... that's something I didn't know! I always thought that the Inferno was just showing a sort of log assist view to our footage but not burning in the log2/3 or rec709 gamma.
 
RealJEDI said:
Hi Wolfgang,

do you think this only applies to "ATOM HDR" mode and not to "LOG TO VIDEO" mode?

Cheers,
Alex
Click to expand...

Well - as promised - here is the answer from Atomos Support (a very helpful guy Dave):

"Both 'Atom HDR' and 'Log to Video' are using the same S-log curve so the same data is recorded to disk.
The difference is that 'Log to Video' is set so that the S-log equivalent of 100% IRE maps to the screens maximum brightness. The 'Atom HDR' mode has a slider to set what level of the log data maps to the screens maximum brightness. The display has around 10 stops of dynamic range, where as a log signal can contain up to 15-16 stops of data depending on camera used. The slider allows you to choose which part of the signal to map to the screen. It does not effect what is recorded to disk as the full dynamic range is recorded to disk."

Piotr
 
New firmware with quadlink and 4k100p for fs700/fs5 released. Anyone have tried this? Looking forward to 4k slomo:)). I think Odyssey has a problem now.
 
Installed it and 4k100fps seems to work perfectly but they haven't corrected the Slog3 issue (no more slog3 since firmware 8.1).
 
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