Is it just me or does the more you read make the choice more and more difficult?

S

skital

Well-known member
I bought my Canon HV20 awhile back to replace my aging Optura SLR style camera which was terrible in low light. The HV20 is very nice in Cinemode, but I still longed for a more pro camera with better DOF control, interchangeable lenses and better low light. Then came my discovery of the Canon 5D Mark II, which excited me a lot, but was too expensive for me at the time and lacked manual controls at the time also.

Then firmware upgrades for the 5D MKII started to come, the GH1 was released which had me thrilled, but then came mud in 1080p and banding in dark scenes and of course the 4/3"sensor, which would crop the lenses I want by 2x.....then came and the Canon 7D, and I was thrilled again, but then came talk of overheating after short record times and bad aliasing/moire.

After discovering the T1i one day a few days later the the T2i was announced with full manual controls for $899 and it shocked me to find out the camera was supposed to equal the 7D for only $799-$899! Turns out it looks great and about equal to the 7D, although it lacks the 1/3rd stop ISO increments, which is forgivable, but then came the talks about it overheating early and of course their is the moire aliasing.


I had been dead set on the T2i, but then read about the overheating issues (my main problem) and the fact that it doesn't have a swivel LCD and then I started to consider the GH1 again.

I'm just totally at a loss now about which camera to get for shooting films now. Anyone else end up totally confused? Which would you get? I'm wondering if I should just wait to see what this year has in store and maybe see what the GH2 will be like.
 
I'm going round and round in circles too!
The way I'm thinking is that none of the vDSLRs is quite there yet, but I need a camcorder of some kind, and I want to learn, therefore am thinking of the 550D for the moment, but prepared to chop it out when somthing comes along which addresses their shortcomings, hopefully a successor to the 5DII.
Dave
 
Video DSLR technology is in it's infancy. And there is no perfect camera out there. Otherwise, every other camera wouldn't exist.

I've gone through many cameras to find the one I like best. Right now, it is the 5D MkII. It's by no means perfect, but for what I shoot, it works great.

What are you planning on shooting? This above anything will dictate what camera to get. Event videography is not a HDSLR's strong point. Fast movement, electronic zoom, autofocus are all things that you want a real video camera for.
 
NextWaveG said:
Video DSLR technology is in it's infancy. And there is no perfect camera out there. Otherwise, every other camera wouldn't exist.

I've gone through many cameras to find the one I like best. Right now, it is the 5D MkII. It's by no means perfect, but for what I shoot, it works great.

What are you planning on shooting? This above anything will dictate what camera to get. Event videography is not a HDSLR's strong point. Fast movement, electronic zoom, autofocus are all things that you want a real video camera for.
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I'm planning on shooting a horror/mixed genre pilot for a series and perhaps a feature film in the future. Maybe horror or comedy. The series I am planning will have a fair amount of dark scene, which is part of the reason why I want the great low light of DSLR and the depth of field control.

I thought about waiting for the Scarlet, but aside from the brain everything else to buy with it costs a damn fortune and adds up super quick. The 2/3" Scarlet brain plus everything else need will be at least $7,000-$9,000 and the Scarlet S35 will probably be in the neighborhood of $11,000-$13,000 at least. I have considered using it to rent out, but still....the price is just very high.

The T2i seemed to be the perfect combination of everything minus the aliasing and moire, which I figured I could work around, but then I read about it overheating after 6 minutes of shooting and needing 10-15 minute cool down periods and then also the fact that I'd need to find some LCD monitor to adapt to it.

I'm back to square one really.
 
I own the T2i and yes if youre shooting in 70 degree weather or above it tends to overheat after about 20 mins. But in a regular setting or at night like you are talking about you shouldnt have a problem with overheating. I dont think youre going to be doing 20 mins of continous recording so all you have to do is just shut it down while youre setting up your shots. Its really not as bad as you may have been hearing.
 
dtjohns1 said:
I own the T2i and yes if youre shooting in 70 degree weather or above it tends to overheat after about 20 mins. But in a regular setting or at night like you are talking about you shouldnt have a problem with overheating. I dont think youre going to be doing 20 mins of continous recording so all you have to do is just shut it down while youre setting up your shots. Its really not as bad as you may have been hearing.
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+1

I've shot in 25C+ (77F+) sunny temps for the entire day w/o the T2i overheating (or w/o getting the warning) in video mode. Then again, I was only rolling continuously for maybe 7-8 mins at most (street interviews) and turning the cam off in between setups.
 
dtjohns1 said:
Its really not as bad as you may have been hearing.
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++1

No problems for me yet.

We're moving into warmer weather, if anything changes, I'll report. T2i is just a great camera for the price. I've said it before, it's the best 900 bucks (kit) I've spent in a long time.
 
Hm. Well, I may have to consider it again. I would like to consider the 5D for the added ISO performance and full frame sensor, but the the cost difference is quite large.

It gets pretty hot where I am in the summer though. I probably wouldn't be actually recording for long stretches though if that's the main reason for over heating.

I'm just wondering if I should consider the GH1 now. I haven't heard too many issues about overheating with it and I heard it's a lot easier to use for video shooting (even though some scenes may need to be shot in 720p) and the LCD on it is great for video shooting.

I will have to invest at least $200 extra most likely for an LCD if I get the T2i. Can't think of any other way around that terribly placed lcd on the T2i. I do despise the huge crop factor of the GH1 though since I'm wanting to do low light and wide angles with fast lenses.

This is going to be tough decision. I may stick with the T2i or wait awhile to see what happens this year.
 
Buy the T2i, get only Nikon glass, switch to GH2 when it comes out. By then there should be some fast native m4/3 lenses (14mm f/2.8 is on the horizon.) I personally prefer the GH1 to the T2i and a 2x crop factor really isn't too much more than 1.6x and isn't that hard to deal with. I think its the superior camera, but if you really want that bit of extra wideness then the T2i should be fine. Gh1 also has a really high resolution EVF, live histogram, and some other great features. Also it doesn't moiré nearly as bad as the Canons: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=206599&page=4
 
Thanks god I´m pretty much broke in the moment. It prevents me from buying something full frame today, that I might regret tomorrow.

Frank
 
Fahad said:
i'm about to get one, but why do you suggest only nikon glass?
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Because then you can easily switch systems later. The EOS glass only works on Canon cameras, if you only get Nikon glass with manual capabilities you can later change systems. Lets say the GH2 comes out or Nikon comes out with a camera with awesome video, you can switch systems and take your lenses with you.
 
Get whatever glass you can afford that is high quality...try to stick with "known" brands, i.e. Canon/Nikon/Ziess/ ect.

I have a 550D and I've had it overheat after having it run for a few hours. Just shut it off and it's good to go after a few minutes.

EDIT: And I second Ben_B's post...unless you plan on just sticking with Canon bodies.
 
Ben_B said:
Because then you can easily switch systems later. The EOS glass only works on Canon cameras, if you only get Nikon glass with manual capabilities you can later change systems. Lets say the GH2 comes out or Nikon comes out with a camera with awesome video, you can switch systems and take your lenses with you.
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ah, that makes sense. although, lenses don't depreciate that much when you sell them.


tidbit: before nikon made their own bodies, they made lenses for canon! who would've thunk it?
 
Ben_B said:
Buy the T2i, get only Nikon glass, switch to GH2 when it comes out. By then there should be some fast native m4/3 lenses (14mm f/2.8 is on the horizon.) I personally prefer the GH1 to the T2i and a 2x crop factor really isn't too much more than 1.6x and isn't that hard to deal with. I think its the superior camera, but if you really want that bit of extra wideness then the T2i should be fine. Gh1 also has a really high resolution EVF, live histogram, and some other great features. Also it doesn't moiré nearly as bad as the Canons: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=206599&page=4
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Well, really you could say a 2.4X crop isn't much more than 2x and 2.8x isn't much more than 2.4X and so on and and so forth. 1.6X crop, IMO, is straddling the line of being extremely close to being too much crop. When you need a 14mm lens just to get 28mm that is too much crop, IMO. Will 14mm even look like a natural wide angle on the GH1 or like a fisheye? I wouldn't want a fisheye distorted look as my only way of getting a decent wide angle view.

What all do you like about the GH1 over the T2i?

I have some more questions regarding the GH1.

1: How much of an issue is banding in low light?

2: Do you mostly shoot in 1080p or 720p to avoid mud?

3: Can you get that flat cinegamma look when shooting like the DVX100/HV20 for good grading? I heard it has a baked in look compared to the Canon's.
 
^^ it all depends on what you need a camera for, of course.

for me personally, i'm a fan of fast and wide lenses. i couldn't find an equivalent to the Tokina 11-16mm for a 2x crop.
 
skital said:
Well, really you could say a 2.4X crop isn't much more than 2x and 2.8x isn't much more than 2.4X and so on and and so forth. 1.6X crop, IMO, is straddling the line of being extremely close to being too much crop. When you need a 14mm lens just to get 28mm that is too much crop, IMO. Will 14mm even look like a natural wide angle on the GH1 or like a fisheye? I wouldn't want a fisheye distorted look as my only way of getting a decent wide angle view.

What all do you like about the GH1 over the T2i?

I have some more questions regarding the GH1.

1: How much of an issue is banding in low light?

2: Do you mostly shoot in 1080p or 720p to avoid mud?

3: Can you get that flat cinegamma look when shooting like the DVX100/HV20 for good grading? I heard it has a baked in look compared to the Canon's.
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The kit lens is 14mm at the wide end and it's like a normal wide angle. I've found it's sufficiently wide for almost all situations (been crammed into a bathroom a few times with it.) I have also found f/4 perfectly fine to light for, although faster would be nice and there is faster coming.

1. It's only an issue in low-light areas that are brightly colored. So you're fine doing low-key lighting type stuff as long as you're not underexposing brightly colored areas by 3-stops or more (if they become black banding seems to go away.) I haven't had much problem with it that I couldn't fix on set easily doing narrative work. The 7D and the T2i also have the banding problem.

2. I shoot mostly 1080p. I avoid mud the same way you avoid rolling shutter...not having crazy camera movement. I also defocus the background the best I can in high detail areas. Most of the time the widest shots I get are locked down so it's not that big a deal. I do 1080/24p for narrative work and 720/60p for event and documentary work.

3. You can get pretty freaking excellent dynamic range. I have been having some fun grading this shot, this is the original, and I wasn't even using the flatest settings the GH1 is capable of (was using Normal with Contrast -2, Sharpness +1, Saturation +/- 0, NR -2.) You can get better results with Smooth or Nostalgic, but I didn't see the need here.

gh1dynamicrange.png
 
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Ben_B said:
The kit lens is 14mm at the wide end and it's like a normal wide angle. I've found it's sufficiently wide for almost all situations (been crammed into a bathroom a few times with it.) I have also found f/4 perfectly fine to light for, although faster would be nice and there is faster coming.

1. It's only an issue in low-light areas that are brightly colored. So you're fine doing low-key lighting type stuff as long as you're not underexposing brightly colored areas by 3-stops or more (if they become black banding seems to go away.) I haven't had much problem with it that I couldn't fix on set easily doing narrative work. The 7D and the T2i also have the banding problem.

2. I shoot mostly 1080p. I avoid mud the same way you avoid rolling shutter...not having crazy camera movement. I also defocus the background the best I can in high detail areas. Most of the time the widest shots I get are locked down so it's not that big a deal. I do 1080/24p for narrative work and 720/60p for event and documentary work.

3. You can get pretty freaking excellent dynamic range. Does this look baked in to you?

gh1dynamicrange.png
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Yeah, that looks really good. The cloud on the upper left could have a bit more detail, but it looks great for sure. I wonder how it holds up under harsher conditions though. The 7D on the Zacuto DSLR vs Film shootout tested at 11 stops of latitude vs about 9 for the GH1.

I'm starting to consider getting both the T2i and the GH1 with some Nikon lenses. lol. That way when I'm in super low light and need to get away from GH1 banding or need a really wide shot with a fast lens I can use the T2i and when I need shots that show too much aliasing/moire with the T2i, or shots that are hard to get without an articulating LCD, I could switch to the GH1.
 
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