is dubbing 'wrong'?
- Thread starter Fahad
- Start date
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
I assume you mean ADR not dubbing into another language.
ADR is not "taboo" but it is a pain in the butt.
There is two kinds of ADR. Most of the time when this comes up on this board it is for "real" ADR where you are trying to make it look like it was actually recorded on set. THere is also the dubbing that is done in some foreign markets which isn't really ADR. A lot of Italian movies were/are done this way. It makes more sense for them because most of the market for them is in foreign languages so they are going to do that anyway. If only a small part of your audience would see the production audio anyway then you can save a lot of time during the shoot by not recording any audio. The catch for an american is that while that is an excepted "style" for an Italian film it is not for an American film. Your audience is going to expect tight lip sync and your not going to get that shooting the italian way.
Cost, performance, quality, time, cost, oh and time.
IF your going for the look and feel of an Italian film or a Hong Kong action film then go for it. If you are trying to make a main stream American style film then it's much easier, cheaper, quicker to do it with production sound.
Richard J. Johnson
Joystick Member
I never do ADR because I hate it. I try my hardest to get the sound right on set. But sometimes you have to do it I guess. I have shot 5 features and 5 shorts and ADR'd one time. Personally I suck at it, but that's just me.
Richard J. Johnson
Joystick Member
I just can't get it look to look right. I come from 15 years of Audio background, but for some reason ADR just looks like ADR. Cost is not an issue because my man owns a studio and it's not mundane, but for some reason, I am just terrible at it.
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
FYI in a "Hollywood" film all the sound but the dialog is created in post.
And a fun film fact... The mix of a film is called a dub. A dubbing stage is another name for a mix stage and is not where you would record (dub) foreign language versions. Though after you did those recordings you would go back to the "dub" stage to "mix" the foreign versions :~)
Not sure where the term comes from but the big 35mm recorders that (until recently) are used to record the mixed tracks of a film are "dubbers".
And a fun film fact... The mix of a film is called a dub. A dubbing stage is another name for a mix stage and is not where you would record (dub) foreign language versions. Though after you did those recordings you would go back to the "dub" stage to "mix" the foreign versions :~)
Not sure where the term comes from but the big 35mm recorders that (until recently) are used to record the mixed tracks of a film are "dubbers".
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
THe up side for the right film is that you can direct the actors like the old silent films. You don't have to watch, give notes, retake. You can talk them through a sequence. Not much use in a drama (actors would probably revolt) but in a fight sequence or some other action/ stunt sequence it could be a great time saver.
The answers here sum it up well. ADR is expensive and hard to do right. Your audience will notice if its even a little off sync or doesn't sound natural. Sometimes you need it, but avoid it otherwise.
I remember when I was first starting out I read about production sound. At the time a lot of websites stated that in mainstream blockbusters, about 90% of the dialog is recorded ADR. It didn't take me long to figure out that this was completely untrue, but I'm sure that statistic is still out there, and that a lot of people believe it for at least a while.
I remember when I was first starting out I read about production sound. At the time a lot of websites stated that in mainstream blockbusters, about 90% of the dialog is recorded ADR. It didn't take me long to figure out that this was completely untrue, but I'm sure that statistic is still out there, and that a lot of people believe it for at least a while.
doesn't sound like an easy task. as Noiz2 said, it might be easier if 'not getting it right' is actually what you're looking for (didn't Planet Terror do this?)
yeah this is, in part, what prompted me to ask about ADR.
yeah that does seem far fetched. 90%? it's not like they can't afford production sound.
unclebob6958
Well-known member
ADR is problematic for several reasons. First, the emotional intensity of the ADR is almost never as good as the on-set performance. Second is the cost factor; you now have to spend the time and money to get the talent to the ADR facility, pay the studio rates, pay for the extra editing time, not to mention the fact the most actors have a hard time with ADR, so getting even a few lines can take hours. Third, getting the sync to look right can be a real problem if you don't have the proper tools. Every dollar/minute you spend on production sound will save you at least ten in audio post.
That is why you should do everything you can to capture excellent production sound. "The Hurt Locker" and "Inglourious Basterds" are both almost completely production dialog. Tarrantino, especially, is a fanatic about capturing great production sound, going to far as to re-set lights, re-block or even re-shoot if the the sound isn't perfect.
That is why you should do everything you can to capture excellent production sound. "The Hurt Locker" and "Inglourious Basterds" are both almost completely production dialog. Tarrantino, especially, is a fanatic about capturing great production sound, going to far as to re-set lights, re-block or even re-shoot if the the sound isn't perfect.
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
I think part of it is the PR dept. It's a little like the inflated "public" budgets for big films. And there may also be a confusion over how much ADR is shot for a film VS how much is used. It's so hard to get actors time that ADR for problematic lines are sometimes (if you have the budget) shot "just in case". The amount used (on films that actually did a lot of ADR) is often much lower than what was recorded. So while some big films I know have shot 90%+ ADR they don't use most of it. They shoot it because they have the money and it's cheaper to be safe and get it covered than get to the mix and find out you should have. Also a lot of those "blockbusters" have the kinds of sequences that are ADR'd by nec., like some big action seq with explosions everywhere. Those explosions are stepping all over the dialog AND they don't sound right. So A) you need to get dialog in the clear to hear it but B) you have to get those air cannons etc off the track. Often ADR is the only way around that.
So that would be the other misconception. That anything related to a "blockbuster" is a reflection on how 99% of Hollywood films are made. If I have a few million and months to toss at audio post I'm going to ADR every line that is problematic. I have the time and bodies and $$$. The director may not use any of it but so what? I've Covered my but "just in case". On a BIG budget there is a fair amount of CYA going on.
Chadfish
Veteran
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
It's a tool and it helps unless your production is really bad, as in planes etc all over it. Then you don't really have a guide track for it to match. It works pretty well if it has something usable to help it along. My last project unfortunately has extremely low level dialog that is being stepped on by planes at every turn. Think soft voices recorded at a great distance during the Pearl Harbor Attack.
Chadfish
Veteran
Yeah I can see how if the original audio is too bad and the voice is lower than extraneous noise there would be a problem. The have a "Pro" version for 500.00 or so that has more editing ability. I have the cheap version, and it just reads the audio, but you can't edit. At least I don't think you can - I only just got it.
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
Well thanks for ruining my day, they went bust! This is why I archive installers!!!
I know there are some others out there but?
This is the HATE part of I love hate plugins. It's why I have a hardware sampler. You buy a tool and you learn it and depend on it and then one day you open the toolbox and it's gone. In the "good" old days the only way that happened was if someone stole your tool but now nobody really "owns" anything, only a right to use it. And when the company retires or goes under or just stops doing updates well... You loyal customer are SOL. When it's not a lot of cash that's one thing but some of these guys were charging serious change and then poof. Wait till cars work that way. Ford goes in to bankruptcy and you car doesn't work anymore.
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Sound toys may have an EQ that does this kind of thing?
I know there are some others out there but?
This is the HATE part of I love hate plugins. It's why I have a hardware sampler. You buy a tool and you learn it and depend on it and then one day you open the toolbox and it's gone. In the "good" old days the only way that happened was if someone stole your tool but now nobody really "owns" anything, only a right to use it. And when the company retires or goes under or just stops doing updates well... You loyal customer are SOL. When it's not a lot of cash that's one thing but some of these guys were charging serious change and then poof. Wait till cars work that way. Ford goes in to bankruptcy and you car doesn't work anymore.
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Sound toys may have an EQ that does this kind of thing?