is dubbing 'wrong'?

ADR is sometimes needed. Scenes where they use rain-machines, snow-machines, smoke-machines... situations with locations with machines turning that can not be switched off...

So...sometimes it's just needed...simple as that.

But I say: have good production sound !!!!!!

Try to shut down machines, talk about it with owners etc....do location visit with soundguys.... VERY important

Image is only a selected part....sound is 360° and a few miles
 
I would do ADR only if I had to. I try to get good sound on set for all the reasons mentioned here. I have a pro mic and the only thing that normally stands in the way is a bad boom op or something going wrong with the cord or mic. In the first film it was a break in the cord and we had to use audio from the camera mic and were unable to do ADR. In the second one we had a bad boom op for a scene and couldn't get the things need to do ADR and do it right. Plus we had to get with the very busy actress again. In the end we had to fix it in post and that didn't go too much better. On site sound is so important. We're taking steps this time to fix all of this.

-Nate
 
Chadfish said:
Oh that's too bad. I guess I'll just search "spectrum matching EQ" and hope something comes up.
Click to expand...

It's a real bummer since the apps from RND were bought from a great little company and each was a very unique and very affordable. There were two EQ's and one compressor and later a limiter and meters. The meters replaced almost all of the functions of SpectraFoo at 1/10 the price (and they (Metric Halo) never made the SF plugin work in OSX so...).
Anyway one of the EQ's let you assemble an unlimited number of "bands' of different EQ filters including a set of harmonic notch filters. The other had the spectrum matching feature. The compressor is a multi band one but the bands are by volume so you could do things like expand out quiet sounds (good for cutting down on those room echos), compress the middle AND limit the top, in one plugin.
 
Oh wanted to add RE: VocAlign, I just used it on something where the guide track was just awful AND had music on it and it worked quite well. I was VERY surprised that it was able to do so well with so little.

I have to revise my assessment, maybe there is a little magic there ;~)
 
I don't do a lot of post work but last year I did post on a small indie I also did production sound on.
I had to replace a couple lines with other takes and I was amazed with vocalign.

It did in seconds what woulda taken me WAY longer to do by hand (and probably better)

Definitely magic in my eyes.


I will say the lines I replaced weren't more than 10 words each so I'd be curious how well it could
do much bigger chunks (even if you broke it up) and if it would remain natural sounding.
 
I use ADR exclusively for my final mix. I don't have the money to pay someone to get it right on set. My actors all know in advance that they'll have a six hour recording session with me after the picture is cut. Does it sound as good as getting it on set with a sound guy? No. But it's a heck of a lot cheaper, and it sounds better than if I attempted to get audio on set with inadequate gear. For a true indie film where you're financing yourself, you have nothing but time to get it right in post.
 
lol! I'm trying to be polite. I even said it doesn't sound as good. But I do think that many people dismiss it too quickly.

As for a clip, not at the moment. All my clips online at the moment are either uploaded before I knew how to encode for the web (so they sound like crap), or they don't have any ADR in them.
 
You guys all spoiled.

Here in Germany we get EVERY foreign language film with German dub.
From Batman to Toystory everything comes with a German voice.

Not only that a lot is lost in translation also other things like certain emotions and dialects is all gone.

Thank´s good for DVDs where you can switch to the original audio track.

Frank
 
I remember staying overnight in an apartment of friends-of-a-friend in Darmstadt back in the mid-80s. They were watching the Clint Eastwood film "Two Mules for Sister Sara" (which I have seen in the original English) on their TV. Alas, some hack actor with a high squeaky voice was doing Eastwood's lines in German. The results were (to me, at least) hilarious, and I couldn't stop snickering during the film. I was banished to the next room for my behavior so that they could enjoy(?) the film.:happy:
 
OK

I only ask because I have been slated to do audio post for a film (Flea), and the Director did not give much attention to production audio, and favored the DP, giving him all the time he needed to set up, but she didn't give any time for audio crew to get things right. There are some scenes on a beach I fear will be bad. Though I trained the kids running boom/mixer, I saw some shots with the frickin' blimp 10" from the actor's (Barry "Greg Brady" Williams) face.

Anyway, The wide shot had the mic far away, and the close-up shot had the mic closer. Since Barry won't be coming by for ADR I am hoping I can take the alternate close-up take and use it, with the help of vocalign to work as audio for the wide shot. But I hear background noise will mess up vocalign. So man... I just don't know.

Anyway I just wanted to see some ADR done by indi film makers rather than the full-on Hollywood Super Pros. Can you get convincing adr at the indi level?
 
El Director said:
lol! I'm trying to be polite. I even said it doesn't sound as good. But I do think that many people dismiss it too quickly.
Click to expand...

If I remember correctly it wasn't that bad, and could have been better with some more accurate positioning of the mic to the actors. The biggest thing with ADR (after sync and performance (and those to a certain extent are in the eye of the director) is FX and Foley.

With out rehashing the whole thread, the clip sounded OK but the "sound" of the voices didn't really match what they were doing that well. But the biggest problem was the lack of all the other sounds you have to add back in when you do ADR, and it's a LOT if you want to sell it.

As much as I personally hate dealing with ADR and just can't stand watching bad ADR, I'm also a big advocate of low budget films NOT trying to do Hollywood. A lot of the reasons Hollywood doesn't like ADR don't apply to micro budget films. You can also decide to not worry about it and make it a stylistic choice.

If I remember correctly El Directors reasons (when folks got past the "sounds as good as big budget Hollywood" (it didn't), which was I believe what set people off) for working the way he does were pretty valid. But he is in a very special market and those reasons may or may not apply to others.

Don't do it because it's "easier", it isn't (you just change who and when the work happens).
Don't do it because "it's the way the big boy's do it", they don't.

Do it because you looked at your options and you care about the sound and it's the best way for you to do this particular project. Realize what your doing and embrace the "style" that it's going to put on the project. Then it becomes an asset instead of a lazy choice.

There are many ways to make a film. I don't think E.D.'s will work for most people but he did in the end convince me that it was a well considered approach on his part. He had thought it out and had planned for it and it was part of the style. And, big AND, it worked for his audience.

OK, that's all I'm going to say about El Directors approach. You can search the forum for the other thread if your really interested in the seamy under belly.
 
Chadfish said:
OK

I only ask because I have been slated to do audio post for a film...
...
Anyway I just wanted to see some ADR done by indi film makers rather than the full-on Hollywood Super Pros. Can you get convincing adr at the indi level?
Click to expand...

Yes you can. I've done it a number of times.
 
Chadfish said:
OK

I only ask because I have been slated to do audio post for a film (Flea), and the Director did not give much attention to production audio, and favored the DP, giving him all the time he needed to set up, but she didn't give any time for audio crew to get things right. There are some scenes on a beach I fear will be bad. Though I trained the kids running boom/mixer, I saw some shots with the frickin' blimp 10" from the actor's (Barry "Greg Brady" Williams) face.

Anyway, The wide shot had the mic far away, and the close-up shot had the mic closer. Since Barry won't be coming by for ADR I am hoping I can take the alternate close-up take and use it, with the help of vocalign to work as audio for the wide shot. But I hear background noise will mess up vocalign. So man... I just don't know.

Anyway I just wanted to see some ADR done by indi film makers rather than the full-on Hollywood Super Pros. Can you get convincing adr at the indi level?
Click to expand...


I haven't done 546540646 films yet, but untill know in 99% of the times, after the shooting and after the first cut. Almost alle directors say to me "you were right, I have to give more attention to the sound".

So in a way, I think "let the kid burn his finger when he touches the fire" is good to apply. If you tell the kid "watch out for the fire" it will say "nah nah, why should I".

I'm sure also this director will think twice next time about sound..and if she doens't... I'll come to her and tell her she has to...weather she likes it or not :2vrolijk_08:
 
dre83 said:
So in a way, I think "let the kid burn his finger when he touches the fire" is good to apply. If you tell the kid "watch out for the fire" it will say "nah nah, why should I".

I'm sure also this director will think twice next time about sound..and if she doens't... I'll come to her and tell her she has to...weather she likes it or not :2vrolijk_08:
Click to expand...

Not sure what world you live in but in the one I do that attitude will get you a box under an overpass. On tiny tinny little films you might get by with that attitude, anything with a budget and your out the door. So while I agree to a certain extent, that is bad advice. If you want to "teach them" get them to pay for what ADR actually costs. Your job is to support the film (not financially) and anything you don't do that you could have done toward that end is a reason you won't get hired again.
 
Noiz2 said:
Not sure what world you live in but in the one I do that attitude will get you a box under an overpass. On tiny tinny little films you might get by with that attitude, anything with a budget and your out the door. So while I agree to a certain extent, that is bad advice. If you want to "teach them" get them to pay for what ADR actually costs. Your job is to support the film (not financially) and anything you don't do that you could have done toward that end is a reason you won't get hired again.
Click to expand...

Well I think I expressed myself wrong. I do inform people about sound and possible isues... I also tell them what to think about concerning sound etc...

But, it's more that if someone does sound for the first time, and you tell him "you have to use a shotgun", he/she will not know for what raison. But if you let him/her experiment.... they will figure it out.

And, if people won't listen, or don't pay attention to sound.... But fortunently there aren't many of them.
 
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