Is Crop Mode just a firmware update?

G

Gene Sung

Veteran
I was checking out the new T3i crop mode and at 3x it looks really good (10x look digital). I don't believe that at 3x it's a digital zoom, because the footage looks really clean, like the crop is from the Optics.

With that said, isn't the crop mode simply a firmware update? It seems like since the t3i isn't anything new in terms of processor (4 year old digic 4), that the 7D, 60D, etc could have the same ability if Canon chooses to release a firmware update for those models.

Is that correct? Is this something that Magic Lantern could do (Crop Mode) if Canon doesn't update the firmware for the other cameras? Basically, it seems like most of Canon's new models are simply firmware updates these days. Where is the innovation?

This is a really useful feature though

It would be really cool if on the new 5D3, they had a 1.6x crop mode and the 3x crop, then it'd be like a 7D and 5D rolled into one. Just speculation though, but it's probably very easy to do for Canon.
 
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Interesting theory, however I'm not sure how it works honestly.

Currently, the way I understand it is our cameras record video by having the sensor skip over most of the pixels on the sensor, sampling just enough to get something around 720p size, and up-sampling to 1080. That's the reason for the moire and pattern problems- the skipped pixel and up sample has to guess what comes in between and smooth it out.

What this appears to be doing is telling the sensor to use an entirely different set of pixels to sample, ones that are closer together physically. I'm hoping this means we will also reduce the moire problems, as I believe it is why the GH2 doesn't have them as strongly as we do (GH2 = lower megapixel sensor, which means less pixels skipped over and smaller crop size means they are closer together to begin with. I think the reason Canons have more video problems than the GH2 is because our sensor for stills is TOO GOOD and has too many pixels to skip over a larger area to resolve video-sized resolution!).

So, yeah- the question is, is that controlled by the camera firmware, or is it a lower level control on the sensor to do that?
I know that right now, Magic Lantern is kind of limited in what it can control to mostly UI-related things as run by the ARM processor- for example, we can have live histograms and audio monitoring, but it can't change the camera's output aspect ratio from 3:4 on external monitor, or the file system to not be limited by 4GB files. Those are controlled by lower level routines that we don't have access to, on different processors I think.

I don't think its a hardware limitation, however I'd guess that the processor running the sensor is NOT the same ARM one that runs the UI and encodes the video, which is really the only one that ML has access to.
The only possible way to make this happen is for Canon to issue an official update, but looking at the way they release new models instead of updates, I'd say its very unlikely.
 
Is the T2i crop mode from Magic Lantern? Is it an optical crop like the GH2 (good), or a digital zoom type crop (not so good)??
 
Its just SD 640x480 crop,i never use it tho,they should and could have 1080p crop in t2i but left it for t3i.Yes im 99% sure it would be as simple as port the function from 3ti and update firmware for t2i but they will never do it so forget it.They proved that fps can be added so IMO 1080P crop can be on all canon DSLR's with video.
 
bwwd said:
Its just SD 640x480 crop,i never use it tho,they should and could have 1080p crop in t2i but left it for t3i.Yes im 99% sure it would be as simple as port the function from 3ti and update firmware for t2i but they will never do it so forget it.They proved that fps can be added so IMO 1080P crop can be on all canon DSLR's with video.
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FPS changes are a little simpler, as you're not changing how the sensor is operating, but rather how often to read off the buffer into the encoder. Its a likely not much more than changing the value of a timer in the encoding system. Sensor cropping is a bit more complicated... however, I agree that once they've added it to another camera, that hardware should be similar enough that the code could be ported. But its not something ML would have access to I think.
 
Arrrgggghhhh.... Canon is so frustrating. They have all these different models that are basically the same camera, but one will have a flip screen, the other will have crop mode and the other will have true HDMI. Sucks how they just try and bait the consumers and take suck your cash. Hoping the 5D3 will just have most of it Then, they will finally have something truly worth upgrading for.
 
gene_can_sing said:
Arrrgggghhhh.... Canon is so frustrating. They have all these different models that are basically the same camera, but one will have a flip screen, the other will have crop mode and the other will have true HDMI. Sucks how they just try and bait the consumers and take suck your cash. Hoping the 5D3 will just have most of it Then, they will finally have something truly worth upgrading for.
Click to expand...

Nah, I mean, while every corporation has do to some kind of similar tactic to be profitable, I don't think Canon's concept is so bad.
It actually kind of makes sense when you realize that none of these are "upgrades" of the other. You see, there are 4 basic levels of consumer equipment that you are comparing- 2 high end, and 2 budget end.
High End:
The 5D is the higher end device designed for photojournalists who need full frame to get the same look and composure as their film camera did
The 7D is the more affordable version, that has a cropped sensor and a slightly smaller body, but otherwise still considered high end in construction and quality. The 7D was not meant to "replace" the 5D, but rather be an alternative. So the features are slightly different.

Low End:
The T2i is the upgrade to the rebel line of cameras, which is the low-end budget model. It has the same sensor as the 7D, but does not have the same build quality or ergonomic controls. It was not meant to replace the 7D OR the 5D, but rather round out their lineup for budget conscious consumers.
The 60D, meanwhile, is the "high end of the low end" model, an upgrade from the other double digit D models (40D, etc) which offers slightly better build quality than the t2i, but not as high as the 7D or 5D. Since it came after the t2i, they listened to some of the complaints consumers had with that model, and worked it into improvements. The articulating screen was a big one, as well as manual audio control. But those weren't there to be an "upgrade" to the 7D or 5D, but rather because the model was released after those were, so it is a newer generation.

The proof is that the t3i takes the same "improvements" and applies it to their next generation as well. Rest assured, the sequel to the 5D and 7D will likely also have manual audio and articulating screen, as well as this latest generation feature, the crop mode.
 
Canon updates the DReb series yearly in Feb... it's all very predictable.

Except for bugs or new hardware support, they don't issue firmware updates for the DReb series, also very predictable.

Being "frustrated" by anything else is a bit strange since the company is so predictable.
 
The 3x-10x digital zoom would be amazing firmware upgrade to have in my 7D or 60D. It won't happen, though.
 
Yes, it is frustrating, but unless you barely jumped on the wagon, just sell your camera and buy a T3i. Unless you don't need the 3x zoom mode, in which case, just keep truckin along!
 
Would also like to see something that's slightly moving to see if movement at 3x causes any added pixelation
 
The crop modes probably just mean it uses a smaller part of the sensor. There should be no loss of quality in any of the zooming modes, and maybe less moire, as there would be fewer lines to skip.

A more useful test would be to move the camera back to try to get roughly the same framing of the object. If you zoom in on the molecules of the flower, of course it's going to look rough.
 
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