Is a good sound recordist a magician? Or is just about money?

[Jema]

The good news is that you seem to have learned about the value of having good audio, which is the first step to getting it. The second step is figuring out what has been wrong, and then what you can do about it. Many people often want to blame things on low quality equipment, which seems to also be your train of thought, which is tempting since it's easy to fix and speaks to the gearloving side of many filmmakers. It is true that good equipment can make a very noticeable difference, but it's usually not as big as you might imagine - as long as you are using the right tool for the job. This last bit is what gives a good sound technician his paycheck. Anyone can rent/buy good equipment, but a good technician knows what to use at every specific situation.

So, you say that you get the mic close, check the levels, and press rec. What is close in your opinion? How do you aim the mic? What environments have you filmed in? What are "good levels" to you? What format are you recording in?

After you know more about the different problems and choices a sound technician faces, THEN you can think about purchasing equipment. Read the stickies and borrow a few books on location sound. If you don't want or have the time to do any of this, then yes - you should hire someone who knows this stuff.

 

[Noiz2]

Actually your Magician, analogy is pretty good. A magician is someone who trains a long time to get really good at is job so he can give the illusion that it all happens by magic, when in fact it's a LOT of work and skill.

BUT I would also ask are you doing a fair comparison. Are you comparing your raw tracks to the commercials tracks after they have gone through post?

The professionals tracks are going to sound better a little bit because of better equipment, but mostly because of how it's used. However there is a LOT that is done in post that fills out the tracks and gives them depth. The production mixers job isn't so much to get that "depth" as to get really clean dialog. Post is going to clean up that dialog and goose it in a multitude of ways and sound editors are going to add all the non dialog sounds in and give the track life and depth.

You may be confusing the two. You should be able to get clean perfectly usable tracks from your equipment. If there is a huge difference it's either a huge technique gap or the lack of post.

 

[davefisk]

It's both.

It's using good, professional, equipment and knowing how to use it

I have to agree with this 100%. You will most likely not find professional sound mixers using an H4n, or any of the other small recorders on their shoots. Head over to JWSound and look at the gear they are talking about. Now, that's only part of it. If you have a Zaxcom Nomad or Sound Devices 664 you have to know how to use them. You have to know which microphone works best for the job, and you have to know where to put the mic. You also have to know your locations and what things can present problems to you. You have to know gain structure. You have to know a LOT of things, and honestly, experienced sound people are some of the most technically skilled people I've seen on set. Heck...I've been on some low budget projects where I knew more about the camera than the camera op.

 

[nwstudios]

Because no one else has mentioned it, a good dialog editor-rerecording mixer can do wonders.

 

[Josh Bass]

I'm wondering when the OP says he/she gets the mic "as close as possible", how close are you actually getting it? In my experience I've found that that one thing, getting the mic in close AND on axis, solves 75% of problems. AC blasting? having the mic that close will cause the voice to AC ratio to make it a fairly small issue. Horrible reflective surfaces everywhere? Same deal, voice to reverb ratio high enough to work with. It won't be PERFECT, but "sounds like crap" would not be the result either. Regarding axis, those mics, many times, have very narrow areas where they pick up ideally, so if your talent leans/moves/etc., that mic needs to move with them or you'll get that thin hollowness.

 

[PaPa]

There is a lot more going on than just what mic is being used though. Pre amps are very important yes, but in post, these guys are gating the sound, doing something similar to what Vocal Rider does, adding compression, EQ, the works, to really polish it up.

 

[MattinSTL]

A good sound guy is tenacious... and the production has to be willing to let him/her be that way. There are times where you only get one shot at rigging a mic, but typically you can dial it in after being 90% of the way there on experience.

I did an AB commercial recently where the talent couldn't stop touching the mic... I moved it... and she was right back on it. Even in the open-air center of her bra and still... her hand went right to it constantly. Fortunately I was also booming... and for the most part her mic-pats didn't happen on the dialog. Aside from that, I also had to push the bar owner (nobody there all night, it was closed for our shoot) to unplug some of the coolers... they wouldn't unplug all of the offending coolers... which meant I had to mention it for some takes where the cooler cycled in the middle of an important line. Finally... the director told the extras to talk quietly in the background... kept saying, "keep it low... we don't want to hear you, so talk quietly"... well... after getting the okay from the cam-op... since he knew the client... I politely interjected that nope... ZERO sound... not quietly... make NO sound, just ACT like you're talking... and I had to remind the extras of that fact several times through the day and night.

This is to say nothing of riding the levels as the shot dollies with a bartender that walks into a loudly joking group of patrons... and dollies back to her personal lines directly into the camera.

My point is that setting the right mics up the right way is only half the battle... attention to all the other potential problems... while riding the levels, is the other half. A lot of crap goes wrong with sound... and typically you're the only one who knows about it... and you're expected to (almost seamlessly) provide a solution so that nobody ever knows there was a problem in the first place.

Sometimes it's set up the mics and forget it... but most of the time there's a lot of tenacity behind the scenes to get really good sound.

 

[Andy Olson]

MattinSTL has very good points. I'll reinterate and add some. I've did a lot of sound work in film school and on a lot of projects mainly because I like it, but partially because no one seems to care that much about it.

There are sayings about sound being 50% of the picture and others saying it's even 90% of the picture. All I know is that it's really important and effects how people view the picture and then how they view the movie. The quickest way to lose an audience is with bad sound.

-Mic placement is key. A shotgun mic is not a magic wand. It needs to be around 1-3ft from actor and pointed at their chest, neck, mouth area.
-Controlling the environment is crucial ie turning off the AC (even though it'll get hot with all the lights), turning off the fridge, putting sound blankets to stop reflections.
-Your mic choice is important too. You shouldn't use a shotgun microphone inside if you can help it because it will pick up sound reflections in the enclosed space. A cardoid microphone (Sennheiser ME64, Oktava) are better for indoors.
-Asking for another take when sound is messed up for some reason be it an airplane flying over or a loud Harley roaring by. People love just moving onto the next shot if it's good for camera leaving the sound to be 'fixed in post' and although a sometimes a pro post mixer can do a lot it post, it'll cost more and probably not be as good.
-Ask the actors to get levels before a take. Adjusting on the fly is sometimes needed which means it'd be nice for the sound person to have hands free to adjust meaning a boom op is needed.
-Don't forget to record ambience and wild lines or sound effects after takes. Having an actor go through a couple lines right after they take when they are in the moment can save having to do ADR later.
-Location scout areas for sound issues. Choose another location if it sounds horrible. If you can't then knowing the sound issues will prepare you to try and fix them while on the shoot.
-Use decent sound equipment - Your zoom and AT897 should be fine, but adding a mixer with good preamps (Wendt, Sound Devices, Shure, PSC) will help a lot. Adding other mics for various situations and accessories like windscreens, rycotes, sound blankets, boom pole, headphones for the boom op -- will help as well. -Wireless lavs are nice, but you have the added problems of interference, multiple batteries to worry about, and an increased device chain. Wired is usually best.
-Have a dedicated sound person. Don't just have the PA or the actor not in the shot do it. You should really have a sound person and a boom operator as well. Why does camera department have 10 people and sound only 1...?

So that is my laundry list of things I use to get good sound.

In regards to equipment (at least on independent productions), people love spending a lot of money on the camera side of production (lights, camera, lenses, grip etc) but wonder why their sound is only mediocre when they spend so much less on sound equipment. Mic is most important. Then a mixer with good preamps. If you have a nice preamps, it gives you a good clean signal to feed into your zoom or dslr, which have not-so-good preamps. Be sure to feed a signal that is loud enough so you can turn the gain of the zoom/dslr as low as possible so it cuts out noise from them.

Sorry if I'm rambling.
Hope this helps.
Thanks,
Andy

 

[Rick R]

Hire a pro who will has the skills and gear. This goes for post-audio as well. Done.

 

[Alex H.]

-Mic placement is key. A shotgun mic is not a magic wand. It needs to be around 1-3ft from actor and pointed at their chest, neck, mouth area.

3' is really pushing it. The effective range really tops out at 2'. As for the other end of that range... 1' is fine, but there are times where you can, and may need to, get closer.

-Controlling the environment is crucial ie turning off the AC (even though it'll get hot with all the lights), turning off the fridge, putting sound blankets to stop reflections.

Turning off the fridge, though necessary, can get you into trouble with the homeowner/business owner. One thing I learned years ago was to put the keys to the grip truck in the fridge when you turn it off. You can't leave without them, and this will remind you to turn the refrigerator back on before you depart, saving you from an angry phone call later about why all the food spoiled.

-Your mic choice is important too. You shouldn't use a shotgun microphone inside if you can help it because it will pick up sound reflections in the enclosed space. A cardoid microphone (Sennheiser ME64, Oktava) are better for indoors.

There's some misinformation here that keeps getting spread around. There's no universal "shouldn't" when it comes to shotgun mics indoors. Use what you have and what you know you can use to get the results you want. Cardioids/hypercardioids do respond differently indoors, and are especially recommended for inexperienced boom ops since they are much more forgiving. If you aren't sure of yourself, or aren't getting the results you think you should be with a shotgun, then switch. There may be rooms that are so reflective that the shotgun is a lost cause, and that's certainly a case where the hypercardioid will help (assuming there's no way to blanket the room and knock down some of the reflections). Knowing how your mics work, and why they respond the way they do, will be very helpful in understanding how to use them.

I've been in places where a lower ceiling gave me little physical headroom out of frame, and that's a case where I'll most certainly use the hypercardioid because if its more compact size and because I know I can get good results with it.

But to say that one should never use a shotgun indoors is, well, a bit short-sighted.

 

[Richard Crowley]

... to say that one should never use a shotgun indoors is, well, a bit short-sighted.

Indeed. The issue is NOT indoors vs. outdoors. The issue is NEARBY REFLECTIONS. There are situations OUTdoors where you could find near reflections that easily confuse a shotgun mic. And conversely, there are indoor locations that have NO close reflections where a shotgun is perfectly fine.

 

[Darren Levine]

MattinSTL has very good points. I'll reinterate and add some. I've did a lot of sound work in film school and on a lot of projects mainly because I like it, but partially because no one seems to care that much about it.

There are sayings about sound being 50% of the picture and others saying it's even 90% of the picture. All I know is that it's really important and effects how people view the picture and then how they view the movie. The quickest way to lose an audience is with bad sound.

-Mic placement is key. A shotgun mic is not a magic wand. It needs to be around 1-3ft from actor and pointed at their chest, neck, mouth area.
-Controlling the environment is crucial ie turning off the AC (even though it'll get hot with all the lights), turning off the fridge, putting sound blankets to stop reflections.
-Your mic choice is important too. You shouldn't use a shotgun microphone inside if you can help it because it will pick up sound reflections in the enclosed space. A cardoid microphone (Sennheiser ME64, Oktava) are better for indoors.
-Asking for another take when sound is messed up for some reason be it an airplane flying over or a loud Harley roaring by. People love just moving onto the next shot if it's good for camera leaving the sound to be 'fixed in post' and although a sometimes a pro post mixer can do a lot it post, it'll cost more and probably not be as good.
-Ask the actors to get levels before a take. Adjusting on the fly is sometimes needed which means it'd be nice for the sound person to have hands free to adjust meaning a boom op is needed.
-Don't forget to record ambience and wild lines or sound effects after takes. Having an actor go through a couple lines right after they take when they are in the moment can save having to do ADR later.
-Location scout areas for sound issues. Choose another location if it sounds horrible. If you can't then knowing the sound issues will prepare you to try and fix them while on the shoot.
-Use decent sound equipment - Your zoom and AT897 should be fine, but adding a mixer with good preamps (Wendt, Sound Devices, Shure, PSC) will help a lot. Adding other mics for various situations and accessories like windscreens, rycotes, sound blankets, boom pole, headphones for the boom op -- will help as well. -Wireless lavs are nice, but you have the added problems of interference, multiple batteries to worry about, and an increased device chain. Wired is usually best.
-Have a dedicated sound person. Don't just have the PA or the actor not in the shot do it. You should really have a sound person and a boom operator as well. Why does camera department have 10 people and sound only 1...?

So that is my laundry list of things I use to get good sound.

In regards to equipment (at least on independent productions), people love spending a lot of money on the camera side of production (lights, camera, lenses, grip etc) but wonder why their sound is only mediocre when they spend so much less on sound equipment. Mic is most important. Then a mixer with good preamps. If you have a nice preamps, it gives you a good clean signal to feed into your zoom or dslr, which have not-so-good preamps. Be sure to feed a signal that is loud enough so you can turn the gain of the zoom/dslr as low as possible so it cuts out noise from them.

Sorry if I'm rambling.
Hope this helps.
Thanks,
Andy

Read that over a few times, Andy laid it out pretty darn well.

Other than that, one of the things you get when you spend more money on a mic, is better off axis rejection, and better quality pickup at distance. There is an appreciable difference between by $250 at897(still a good mic) and my $550 at4073a, in that the more expensive mic sounds better than the cheaper mic at greater distances from the subject. Granted, there are exceptions to this but generally speaking you are getting what you pay for.

Asking the DP where the headroom in the frame ends so you can get the magic stick as close as possible, and at the same time making sure the magic stick is actually pointed strait at the mouth of the subject, are two of the most important things for good sound IMO.

You also should realize that many proper sound people are wiring the actors with wireless lavs under their shirts, especially in situations where the boom cannot get close enough.