Is $10,000 indie feature possible ?

[Martay]

More like those who have been there and done it, and those who haven't yet.

But, of course, that's really the same thing, isn't it?

Indeed. I have been there, done that at the $10K level and found "success" (marginal that it is) but it's even harder now that it was for me then.

Also, the original intention of the original post was to create a film as a writing showcase...which I really don't know that will be very effective unless it's basically a David Mamet-esque type work that can be given a decent shot at that budget level assuming LOTS of luck and circumstances playing into your favor.

I mean, GlenGary GlenRoss is something I could do on a 10K budget...but I won't have the genius performances of Alan Arkin, Alec Baldwin, Al Pacino, Ed Harris, Jack Lemon and Kevin Spacy at my disposal....but if I had a similar literary script that I felt could be conveyed effectively at the 10K level. Then I'd go for it.

However, an unknown GlenGary GlenRoss would have a difficult time finding distribution if the name Mamet wasn't attached to it. Believe me, I've had experience trying to sell similar work with unknown casts. And any other movie genes would be very difficult to pull off for 10K and invariably the lower production value will translate to jabs at the content as well. So that was my main caution to the original poster since he stated that as an objective.

I'm still very optimistic...why else would I be spending ever hour of spare time I have after my regular job (which I'm decent at) making movies in some way?

However, it's very important to understand the real odds of success as well as the realistic expectation of what your final product will be.

Many folks mentioned Robert Rodriguez and he's an inspiration to me as well. It certainly took a lot of luck for him to ever come to light like he did (talk about an improbable rise) but I like to imagine that if he never got an agent he'd still be making movies just like I am. I'd suggest folks here check out a film called "The Other Side" by Gregg Bishop. It reminds me of Rodriguez' success (in a positive way) in that he pulled off some amazing action scenes and sequences with a very limited budget (not 10K but not much) . He went on to do another successful film called Dance of the Dead which found release and was a bigger budget but still sub .5 Mil. He's a GA guy and a nice guy at that, so I definitely root for him to continue his streak (did this article way back in my online mag).

Thought I'd mention him as so many discussed RR and I feel Gregg's track is similar if not as meteoric in his ascension but he knew exatly how he could achieve these results going in. It's no small task to make a credible movie on such a low budget...I think that's all some of us are saying. It seems some folks are happy to say...Yeah, you can make a movie for 10K and leave it at that. Fine. But we'd like to qualify that it's not that simple.

I think the discussion has been very good, I wish Randall would chime in again since he started this whole thread

Let me plug my trailer again (www.battle-movie.com) just because

-M

 

[Martay]

Optimism is great and all, but not blind optimism that can lead you into foolish choices.

Knowledge is power, people. Learn how things are done and maximize your chances of "success" however you choose to define it.

Absolutely, more succinct than my last post. That is the point I believe many of us who may seem discouraging are trying to make.

-M

 

[Barry_Green]

Optimism is great and all, but not blind optimism that can lead you into foolish choices.

Knowledge is power, people. Learn how things are done and maximize your chances of "success" however you choose to define it.

Brilliant summation.

And back to the O.P. -- if the goal was to make it as a showcase for writing... why bother? Just write the script, and use a small percentage of that money to enter every major screenwriting festival. Unlike filmmaking, scriptwriting really does cost nothing, and you can absolutely get agents requesting your script if you do well at one of the big contests.

 

[craigbowman]

When I'm an audience member, I want to see a compelling story which draws me in and holds me in the story until the conclusion.

That is a very difficult thing for any producer to accomplish, no matter what the budget. While its certainly true that every once in a while, just the right combination of people come together at a moment in time and produce something amazing for next to nothing, the infrequency of that occurance is not something that makes for something everyone should be hanging their production hats on.

What should be recognized is that the likehood of bringing the right combination of people together at a moment in time goes up significantly as the availability of higher levels of budget, though there is still nothing written in stone which says that a production with a decent budget can't be a piece of cr*p. If that wasn't true it wouldn't be so difficult to raise capital for feature production.

Of all of the people in this community attempting the first timer's, no-budget approach, Faith Granger at the moment stands as a bellweather to that rare occurance of what qualities a feature producer should possess. So to the OP, go read her Deuce of Spades thread and you'll know that although, yes its possible, what is the likelihood for you?

 

[capitalP]

Anybody here actually made an indie feature for $10,000 or less, and if so what were the main elements you followed to accomplish that?

I am primarily pursuing screenwriting, have made a couple of shorts, but if I could do an indie feature, even craptastic (let's face it, a $10k feature is not going to look like a $100k or better feature, I know that going in) for $10,000 I would give it a shot. I think that would help me get noticed more even as a writer, to get agents to look at my screenplays, etc. I own and have read the book on how to make a feature for $10,000 or less without going to jail, but I am wondering how realistic that is, who has done it. Thank you in advance for any replies. ~randall

Let me chime in on this great discussion that's going on here. Your original post sounds like as if I wrote it myself.

I also consider myself a writer, my original goal(and still is) is to try and obtain a literary agent so I can write screenplays for a living while getting paid for doing what I love. Back in 1997 I tried everything under the sun to try and obtain a screenplay agent and such, back then I had written 3 screenplays. I had no such luck in getting an agent.

Fast-forward to 2005, I decided to try another approach with the same goal in mind. I wrote a few short screenplays and purchased a DVX and set out to make some short films to build my resume and get my name out there. Figured that would help me get the attention of some literary agents. Though my shorts was fun making I felt that without the proper budget the project as a whole suffered and in turn did not help my writing credentials. But I had fun making the shorts and most importantly I gain a lot of experience to tackle my next plan. A Feature.

I was able to get a small loan, yup you guest it $10,000. I decided this feature would best show my skills as a writer and from the experienced I gained making my previous shorts, this feature film I was about to embark on would be my calling card to finally obtain a literary agent.

Flash-forward again to 2009, the film was released. I was able to get a distribution deal(not at all the best deal) but I broke even and even got tons of press for the film(Fox news, Radio Station, News papers, etc..). Boy was I happy, so I thought okay, now it's a done deal, I should be able to go to a literary agency and show them these credentials and get representation right away... boy was I ever wrong. I'm still struggling trying to find an agent.

So, this writer turned writer/director didn't regret at all spending that $10,000 to make the feature. If I didn't take the initiative to make the film then that screenplay probably would of never seen the light of day, so you should go ahead and make that film for $10,000 and see what happens. The best way you can utilize that $10,000 is to start by tightening the screenplay, then after you do that, tighten it some more. Writing a great screenplay will cost you nothing but time.

And the left over money, save about half for marketing and festivals, $5,000 should be your actual production cost, which should go towards feeding the cast and transportation etc...(I assume you own all your equiptment).

For $10,000, you will have to call in a lot of favors.

Finally, this I'm sure you know, next to having a great screenplay, you should focus 90% of your energy into getting an excellent cast, especially a lead. Your cast can destroy your vision if not selected properly. And after that’s all said and done, maybe you'll have better luck than me in obtaining an agent. Winning some festival prizes will sure get you way ahead of the game.

I say go for it and best wishes, assuming that $10,000 is not promise money and actually money in the bank. :grin:

 

[Batutta]

I also consider myself a writer, my original goal(and still is) is to try and obtain a literary agent so I can write screenplays for a living while getting paid for doing what I love. Back in 1997 I tried everything under the sun to try and obtain a screenplay agent and such, back then I had written 3 screenplays. I had no such luck in getting an agent.

I've found the easiest way to get an agent is to go work for one. I interned for one while at college, and once I got the guts handed him one of my scripts. He liked it, sent it out, I got meetings and the whole shebang. He stopped agenting to produce but recommended me to another agent, who took me on for a while. I also wrote a script with a friend, and because he worked in the mail room of a talent agency, was able to get one of the guys there to rep it. They never got me any work so even getting an agent won't solve your problems but doing the whole query letter thing never got me a single phone call. I think in general an agent is only worth getting when they come to you. You'd probably have more success handing your script to everyone BUT an agent. I only recently started getting paid to write (20 years since my first script) and that's because of a screenplay I passed to a friend from film school many years ago.

 

[Gary Huff]

Crazy how things work themselves out sometimes, eh?

 

[J.R. Hudson]

I think if you're content to work with a very low budget, self promote, and serve a small niche market you have many reasons to be optimistic these days, as the internet has made it easy to get your work out there. If you're an indie filmmaker who is seeking a wider audience, wanting to be the next Tarantino, your odds of success are getting smaller every day.

I think Self Distro should always be on the main radar; everything else is gravy

More like those who have been there and done it, and those who haven't yet.

But, of course, that's really the same thing, isn't it?

Lmao !! :beer: :grin:

 

[polfilmblog]

Well, I don't know how well a $10K feature will turn out, but I wouldn't bet on it getting picked up by any distributors, ever, at all.

You could do a trailer, if the project is worth MORE than a $10K investment. If you can pull off 3 or 4 key images that sell this thing on concept, you might wrangle some investors. Happens all the time.

Thing is, you'd need the script, the key imagery, the story concept in the first place. If you just want to blow $10K on a learning experience, hell it beats film school right?

But if the concept needs more capital, then perhaps a short or a trailer is the way to go. People may be very forgiving of the performances knowing that the actors can be replaced, so can the cameraman, so can the sound man... just think of the possibilities... as you sell them fairy dust.

 

[Patryk_Rebisz]

What i find interesting is that there ARE talented people willing to work for free at some point in their life (directors, actors, writers, DPs)... It just seem that those people somehow do not meet each other at the right time in their lifes... so you end up with films being directed by people who don't really have much interest in directing, or shot by people who have no interest in image-making or acted in by people who don't really have interest in pursuing acting as a career or written by people who would do anything else but write....

 

[Gary Huff]

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I AGREE

 

[polfilmblog]

And I do agree with this:

"Though my shorts [were] fun making I felt that without the proper budget the project as a whole suffered and in turn did not help my writing credentials. But I had fun making the shorts and most importantly I gain a lot of experience..."

Making films makes you a better screenwriter. You learn quickly what is needed, and what is unimportant -- and quickly thrown out in favor of other things.

So, yes, make your $10K feature, if you honestly feel you're up to it. If you honestly feel that people will want to see this when it's done (besides your mother). But be realistic in your expectations, and consider that the end result may not be all that watchable.

 

[jls4]

Just bored today so I figured I'd beat this dead horse some more. LOL

Well, I don't know how well a $10K feature will turn out, but I wouldn't bet on it getting picked up by any distributors, ever, at all.

There have already been several projects on this website that have been picked up with low bedgets around $10K

If you just want to blow $10K on a learning experience, hell it beats film school right?

But if the concept needs more capital, then perhaps a short or a trailer is the way to go. People may be very forgiving of the performances knowing that the actors can be replaced, so can the cameraman, so can the sound man... just think of the possibilities... as you sell them fairy dust.

This is one of those - depends on who you are and where you live type of things. If you live in California you may spend $500K for a nice 4 bedroom house with a 1/4 acre of land. In Georgia that same amount $500K will buy you damn near a mini-mansion.

You can't compare what one person can do vs another because there are too many factors involved. Does the person own equipment? Does the person know some very good actors? How experienced is the person? How much free time to they have? etc. I know great actors - d&mn near better than half of what I see in Hollywood with the right look - that will work for free or low pay. In LA fat chance of finding that. In the Southeast you throw a rock down the street and you're liable to find someone. LOL

And I do agree with this:

"Though my shorts [were] fun making I felt that without the proper budget the project as a whole suffered and in turn did not help my writing credentials. But I had fun making the shorts and most importantly I gain a lot of experience..."

Making films makes you a better screenwriter. You learn quickly what is needed, and what is unimportant -- and quickly thrown out in favor of other things.

So, yes, make your $10K feature, if you honestly feel you're up to it. If you honestly feel that people will want to see this when it's done (besides your mother). But be realistic in your expectations, and consider that the end result may not be all that watchable.

The proper budget no matter what your exeprience will aid you, IMO. But if you have to go at it alone, if you can't take a large sum of money, just make sure you bring your brain and make sure it's turned on.

The biggest thing I see with low budget people is that it's like their brain isn't turned on. They don't research, study, practice, anything. They just go and figure it out on set - when they need to know - instead they go and try to figure it out.

Anyway - like I said the horse has been beat dead again. :nads:

 

[Gary Huff]

The biggest thing I see with low budget people is that it's like their brain isn't turned on. They don't research, study, practice, anything. They just go and figure it out on set - when they need to know - instead they go and try to figure it out.

I wanted to draw attention to this because I completely agree. If you don't have a lot of money for production, you need to work really hard during pre-production. I've seen low-budget shoots where the director didn't even know what was going on in the script...and he wrote it!

If you're going to ask people to work for free, don't waste their time.

 

[Barry_Green]

SubtleInspiration gets a gold star for that post.

It's okay if you're broke -- just work extra hard to overcome it, prepare, do your pre-pro. But it's not okay to be lazy or to waste people's time.

Hear, hear.

 

[Jeff Nitzberg]

Just wanted to chime in here. I just finished my first short feature (co-wrote and co-directed) which had a budget well under $10,000.

It's a special effects heavy science fiction comedy and it was shot on the DVX100. Though we did all principle photography in about a month, pre-production was three times as long and post production was almost TWO years long. Keep in mind this is about as close to a hand made movie as you can get with a pretty much two man crew of director and director doing every other job imaginable (editing, sound, effects, mixing, color correction, costumes, storyboards, casting, location scouting, wardrobe, gripping, rigging, lighting, camera operation, puppeteering etc)... and splitting up all those jobs can be quite a juggling nightmare of epic proportion. What made our movie possible on such a tight budget aside of our multitasking ability was that of planning on top of planning, hard working volunteers, good weather, craigslist, and a pure passionate love of movies and filmmaking.

Though we were able to rent SOME equipment for free from the school our film was produced under, the cost of this equipment would have still added up to well under a 10k budget. In fact, we would have killed for a budget that big, but we just didn't have it. What we did have was time and energy above all else. Equipment ironically, is the least of ones worries in the ever advancing digital age.

The biggest crunchers, are and always will be with movie-making: time, and man power.

Or as someone once put it, you've got Fast, Cheap and Good. And you only get two of the three.

That said you have to have a filmmaker's mindset if your setting out to write something on the cheap. And what I mean is that if you're a visual thinker, you also have to be aware of little things in filmmaking that are and aren't possible based on the limitations of technology. Now these things are always changing, and fortunately in the digital age more and more things are becoming possible for cheap, but certain things will always be difficult...

For instance, when writing our script, we had to be absolutely conscious about the limitations of the equipment we knew WE had:

No major lighting= no outdoor scenes at night.

No two man camera crew = no complicated camera moves with focus pulls.

Only two lav microphones = no more than two actors being able to talk on screen at the same time and have good audio.

It might seem completely constrictive to think in those terms, but it's essential. As an artist if you only have blue red and yellow to paint with, it might seem like your screwed, but you can still mix and make all the colors... and sometimes limitations can and will lead to more creative solutions.

The important thing is to embrace your limitations and use them to your advantage.

The other biggest rule is don't wait for things to fall perfectly into place... the best way to make a movie is just to DO IT.

If you're at all interested in the film we made for under 10k it's called SLIMED and it's available to watch in its entirety on vimeo for FREE here:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=198879

You can also check out the website: www.slimedthemovie.com

Good luck, and never let money stand between you and your creative aspirations! Like others have said, writing costs close to nothing, and your canvas is as big as your imagination.

 

[polfilmblog]

"...and it's available to watch in its entirety on vimeo for FREE here:"

I don't want to say anything negative. I've seen your trailer. I'll skip the feature. It sort of makes my point.

And my other point: it no doubt made you a better screenwriter and filmmaker than when you began. Cheaper than film school, and more fun, no?

 

[RockmanX3]

"...and it's available to watch in its entirety on vimeo for FREE here:"

I don't want to say anything negative. I've seen your trailer. I'll skip the feature. It sort of makes my point.

And my other point: it no doubt made you a better screenwriter and filmmaker than when you began. Cheaper than film school, and more fun, no?

I dunno, I actually kinda liked it in an incredibly cheesy way. I wish I could make something half that decent.

I'll be sitting down and watching the whole thing pretty soon, but amazing job for what they had to work with!

 

[Martay]

I wanted to draw attention to this because I completely agree. If you don't have a lot of money for production, you need to work really hard during pre-production. I've seen low-budget shoots where the director didn't even know what was going on in the script...and he wrote it!

If you're going to ask people to work for free, don't waste their time.

Indeed. That is the main point. Don't waste anyone's time. Everyone knows that you can field a team and get them excited about the idea of a project. They'll spend time and work hard for low to no pay. In the end, 98% of these projects are not seen (except by a few), or even completed...so the only thing that these folks will have is the experience (hopefully a positive one) and a sense of satisfaction or dissatisfaction that they spent their time wisely.

Even if the project isn't wildly successful, it can be something they're satisfied to be part of...this is something I always hope folks who work with me can say about the projects we've done.

Again, 10K features are extremely dissadvantaged, so it better be worth it in all aspects is the main thing I have tried to interject here.

-M

 

[Jawa Ex Machina]

This has probably been touched upon several times already in this thread, but it's 12 pages long.

Production isn't a problem anymore. Technology is cheap now. People are so into making films a lot of them will do it for free. Get friends. Ask local businesses to support you for a promotion deal. A lot of them will do that.

The main problem independent filmmakers face at this particular point in history is Distribution.
In five years, I'm positive that will have changed, but right now VOD is just starting out and consumers are not really into it yet. Once that ball gets rolling, and money can actually be made by filmmakers, Distribution will stop being a problem.

The problem then will be quality, because at that time the market will be so flooded by 10,000 dollar movies available to the consumer the question they will ask themselves won't be "is this film worth my one dollar" but "is this film worth the hour and a half of my life".


With that in mind, I can say that I've worked both professionally and I've worked zero budget.
Two years ago I made a zero budget web TV series. Six 14 minute episodes + a shorter prolog episode. Total of 89 minutes, cost about 1000 USD to make. Fun writing, but it had big flaws, some were my fault, some were out of my hands.
The point is, having done that there's no way I would make MARIANNE for less than 150 000 USD. It's the amount I can get hold of and it's hard work as it is even IF you can pay people to be on time.
If you don't pay them, you WILL have problems. People WILL be late or not show up at all.
A lot of people say they want to make a movie, but I would say less than 10% of the people who say that follow through and will be there when it's time, and raining, and it's Saturday morning and they don't feel like getting up.
If you don't pay them, you can't fire them.

Keep that in mind.

You know what you COULD do with that 10,000 dollars? You could make a pilot, get quality script notes, then find financing and shoot the film with a higher budget.