Pietro Impagliazzo
Well-known member
Is there a substantial difference between 50mbps and 80mbps? Perhaps only in high motion?
Sage, you could host your images on imageshack.
Sage, you could host your images on imageshack.
GH2 INTRA GOP1 176M Hack = superb
- Thread starter nick_driftwood
- Start date
griplimited
Well-known member
Sage, was gonna buy some new sdhc cards for the GOP3, but used your settings instead. I own 3 32gb Transcend Class 10, they work flawlessly with playback option. Thanks buddy!
Pietro Impagliazzo
Well-known member
Sage, since you seem to understand more than me, that's what I'm using right now with the GH2:
[Information]
Comment=Impagliazzo 50 Mb/s GOP 6
SD_Card=
Camera=GH2 v1.0E
[Settings]
Version increment=2
30min limit removal=Checked
Video Bitrate 24H=52000000
Video Bitrate 24L=42000000
Video Bitrate FSH/SH=52000000
Video Bitrate FH/H=42000000
720p50 GOP Size=6
720p60 GOP Size=6
1080i50 and 1080p24 GOP Size=6
1080i60 GOP Size=6
Video buffer=0x3000000
Video buffer 24p=0x3600000
1080p24 High Top Setting=42418
1080p24 High Bottom Setting=29692
1080p24 Low Top Setting=31178
1080p24 Low Bottom Setting=21824
Modified from "Butt GOP6 Setting".
What do you say?
Curtis Mack
Active member
Could you give us a brief rundown of the improvements we can expect from this configuration? Is there an observable point of diminishing returns in increasing the bit rate?
At the normal GOP 12 diminishing returns pretty much kick in at 88M (if not before at 66M at AQ2 or 44M at AQ4 in terms of image quality), lower GOPs is another matter as you need to crank the bitrate up to keep the quality high (more I-frames take up more bandwidth, so at the same bitrate as a longer GOP they have to be smaller).
Pietro I'd worry about the stability of a GOP 6 at that bitrate, I think 66M is probably the lowest I've seen that is stable at GOP 6. You'ld have to check the footage closely, and/or use streamparser to analyse it. I'd be really surprised and impressed to see those 1080i & 720p bitrates work acceptably at GOP 6.
Edit : Ah, are you using the previous ptools version ? I see you've not set the AQ so those settings may well be all okay. Ignore me.
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The Stevesy
Active member
What sort of Workflow are you guys using to get into FCP or PPro?
chauncythedog
Active member
http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/19637#Comment_19637
although this is mostly adobe, there is a lot in this thread that will help.
although this is mostly adobe, there is a lot in this thread that will help.
Sage
Well-known member
Pietro, you want to take advantage of the AQ option since the 3.62 release. That changed everything, and 6gop became somewhat of a problem child w/ lower quantization. Basically, there used to be a hard ceiling in the encoder that would prevent certain data (smooth gradients, shadows) from receiving bitrate even if there was a surplus left over. A higher Auto Quantization setting means that the params are automatically corrected to allow the data to be less quantized, or crunched. At AQ3, almost every pixel is at full blast, and bitrate is fully used. It is a lot more intense, but the images are a lot more 'raw', like you shot them on an imaginary scarlet
Because lower quantization (i.e. higher AQ) is so intense, the settings must be more carefully chosen. I would recommend using one of the pre-made settings from driftwood (for 1080p 24) at 3gop. [He may be on the verge of maxing out 1 gop w/ the next version] His settings are extreme in the quest of image and won't allow you to do 80% 1080p. If you want to keep 80% and use all kinds of cards, my own setting is solid (in reality, this is a point of diminishing returns for most, as the image quality is pretty amazing). 3gop is the new 6gop - compared to 1gop, it is a lot less demanding (replaces 3 p frames w/ i, instead of all 11 p&b frames), yet the efficiency of slinging across two bidirectional frames to connect i frames is just about as efficient and accurate to source as inter frame compression gets. 6gop is quirky on 3.62. For 720p, I found 6 gop to be a kind of sweet spot. 720 has been super fragile, and my settings for that are the best I've found; they hold up perfectly on very complex shots. The motion/grain accuracy of 720 6gop is a lot better than 30gop, and relatively motion artifact free compared to 30gop. The most recent driftwood 720 3gop setting is not too good (fell apart on same shots).
Sage
Well-known member
I originally intended to not release the settings publicly, because I expected the perfect settings to be out by now, 2 months later. But I realize they are a pretty good thing, and I have stuck w/ them because no other settings have offered me this value (80%, good 60p, all cards, top image/motion quality all in one). That said there are a couple quirks I have noticed; There will be a 'fake' read error if after turning on the camera, you shoot one 1080p video and switch to playback mode. It will only stay up 2 secs, then go away and everything will play. After playing back many intense detail 1080p shots, it will say cannot play, and require turning the cam on and off again to continue playback. And last, 80% mode - this is tricky because it has to write the most data. At 80% 88mbps, when shooting an intensely detailed shot (noise or deep focus on detail & motion), it may stop recording, and it may drop one frame 3 secs in. If you have to do a complex, high detail or noisy 80% shot, you can get stability for the duration by covering the lens to black until second 4 of the recording. If you encounter the dropped frame problem on very complex shots, it can easily be reconstructed w/ twixtor (I have done this). None of these 80% quirks happen at 66mbps, and you can record 80% 66mbps to class 6, but there is a hit to image quality. 88 is the sweet spot here. None of the settings will crash the cam, and the only time you will encounter write speed stops is with the previously mentioned 80% quirk. Everything will play back, and quality is relentless.
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Pietro Impagliazzo
Well-known member
Pietro, you want to take advantage of the AQ option since the 3.62 release. That changed everything, and 6gop became somewhat of a problem child w/ lower quantization. Basically, there used to be a hard ceiling in the encoder that would prevent certain data (smooth gradients, shadows) from receiving bitrate even if there was a surplus left over. A higher Auto Quantization setting means that the params are automatically corrected to allow the data to be less quantized, or crunched. At AQ3, almost every pixel is at full blast, and bitrate is fully used. It is a lot more intense, but the images are a lot more 'raw', like you shot them on an imaginary scarlet
Because lower quantization (i.e. higher AQ) is so intense, the settings must be more carefully chosen. I would recommend using one of the pre-made settings from driftwood (for 1080p 24) at 3gop. [He may be on the verge of maxing out 1 gop w/ the next version] His settings are extreme in the quest of image and won't allow you to do 80% 1080p. If you want to keep 80% and use all kinds of cards, my own setting is solid (in reality, this is a point of diminishing returns for most, as the image quality is pretty amazing). 3gop is the new 6gop - compared to 1gop, it is a lot less demanding (replaces 3 p frames w/ i, instead of all 11 p&b frames), yet the efficiency of slinging across two bidirectional frames to connect i frames is just about as efficient and accurate to source as inter frame compression gets. 6gop is quirky on 3.62. For 720p, I found 6 gop to be a kind of sweet spot. 720 has been super fragile, and my settings for that are the best I've found; they hold up perfectly on very complex shots. The motion/grain accuracy of 720 6gop is a lot better than 30gop, and relatively motion artifact free compared to 30gop. The most recent driftwood 720 3gop setting is not too good (fell apart on same shots).
Hey mate, so do you have any preset patch to recommend me or should I just tick AQ3 on this one? Guess I'm also raise the bitrate to 64 and try it out.
You know, everytime I go to Personal View I see threads of 20 pages and I freak out, don't know what to look for.
Edit: Missed your seta.ini back in the thread... Guess I'm gonna use that one.
And I just tested a new Driftwood patch with 224Mb/s rates, lol, but all I did was shoot my cat and I even thought the footage of my old 50Mb/s looked better. Until I have no 32GB cards I'll steer away from these huge bitrate patches.
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Sage
Well-known member
Yes, that driftwood 224 intra 1gop patch you mention was outdone by his 176 gop1 patch. The bitrate tells very little with 3.62; its the particular settings group that allow various gops at their best quality. Driftwood's 132 3gop is the best quality overall atm imo, but you give up 80% and it requires the sandisk extremes. Imo, my 720p settings group is the best for 720p 60 atm.
This might help to describe the state of things:
The bitrate needed to get good image quality depends on what GOP (group of pictures size) you want to use. Fewer pictures grouped together means more filmic motion at the cost of less efficiency.
Here is the 1080p guide:
12 GOP (original firmware size)
30-80 mbps
--CBrandin's 44 (spans)
--CBrandin's 66 (top 12gop quality)
3 GOP
80-150 mbps
--My 88 (retains 80% vari speed and all sd cards)
--Driftwood's 132 (classic best quality)
--Driftwood's 176 GOP3ILLA (quantization of 5, lowest possible atm)
1 GOP
150-250 mbps
--Driftwood's 176 (hey, its intra!)
This might help to describe the state of things:
The bitrate needed to get good image quality depends on what GOP (group of pictures size) you want to use. Fewer pictures grouped together means more filmic motion at the cost of less efficiency.
Here is the 1080p guide:
12 GOP (original firmware size)
30-80 mbps
--CBrandin's 44 (spans)
--CBrandin's 66 (top 12gop quality)
3 GOP
80-150 mbps
--My 88 (retains 80% vari speed and all sd cards)
--Driftwood's 132 (classic best quality)
--Driftwood's 176 GOP3ILLA (quantization of 5, lowest possible atm)
1 GOP
150-250 mbps
--Driftwood's 176 (hey, its intra!)
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Ben Totman
Active member
sage, could you give me a link to download your 720p settings? im curious to check them out.
Does it span? How much continuous recording time can I get with a 64GB SDXC card?
Thanks,
Shawn
Sage
Well-known member
The settings you are looking for are CBrandin's 44mbps 12Gop. They are the only 3.62 ones that span, and will remain so until another ptool update (if that can change it). Fail-proof spanning is from 32mbps down.
I think you could get an hour and a half of average detail shots onto the card. The projected time is around 1hr 16m (max detail shots).
Sage
Well-known member
Here are the settings, with my 1080 gop3 variation:
http://sagepictures.com/seta.ini
*Note: for 720p 60, use the lower bitrate setting. the higher 52 is the max the encoder would accept to retain stability, but the 44 low seems to be more balanced w/ the buffers (to good image effect).
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Park Edwards
Veteran
this is what drives me crazy about the Gh2. if only there was a way to get rid of this crap then I'd be more than happy. already pretty satisfied about the camera and V's hack, but damn this codec to hell.
