Into 2013

Mac

Well-known member
Ive been using the AF100 since early 2011 - as well as three other cameras - and here are my long-term impressions. Sorry it's long, but it has been nearly two years.

I'll start with the most negative - highlight and chroma clipping. This has been hashed and rehashed so often that I won't say much, except that I am more forgiving than most, because it isn't usually that distracting to the viewer - and I can live with blown out whites and an occasional odd color in out-of-focus distant foliage for instance.

But I had one major problem several months ago shooting an outdoor party for a local actor/director as a favor for a wealthy woman at her home in Pebble Beach. She was wearing a VERY expensive white silk blouse and, because of the reflective quality of the silk, the shadows in the folds went an ugly purple. The exposure was correct (my usual 1 - 1 1/2 stops under, Chroma at -4). Normally I might have let it go. But because I knew she paid a lot for the blouse (probably more than I made that month), I had to deal with it in post. It was fixable, but it took a lot of time and swearing.

This single event is why I've posted here several times hoping for a new sensor in the 100 sequel, which unfortunately isn't… well, you know.

The next week I placed a pre-order for an FS700 - one bad experience (not even a paid job) and I was ready to change. But after evaluating the fact that I wouldn't gain that much (i.e. color space, codec), I decided to stick with the AF because of what I do like about it, and because of the introduction of two new zoom lenses.

I like the MFT sensor size because it allows use of those lighter lenses - and the camera itself is so light that it's a pleasure to work with all day handheld, and allows me to pack a lightweight tripod (I've built a custom fitted EVF mount, matte box base and shoulder brace).

Now I only need to carry three small lenses - the 12-35, the 35-100 and the Nokton 17.5. [An aside but relevant - am I the only one that's securing my still lenses with gaffer's tape? I have Novoflex and Metabones adapters for my Leica and Canon FD lenses and they all have play in the adapters - I have to tape them, which means I need an adapter for every lens. For this reason alone the native mount MFT lenses are a real plus!]

Minor rants and raves:

The AF100 is dirt cheap, it was paid for a month after I bought it.

I like that the recording setup (i.e. 24p or 30p) is programmed within the individual scene files, but I wish the names were displayed in the menu so I could identify them.

I really miss the scene file wheel (my HPX250 has it, and when I use that camera I remember how much I like it).

I like that the Power Switch is a real switch and is placed with the Mode button under the LCD - this makes it convenient to set the camera in my lap and review/delete clips.

I originally distrusted the fiddly little SDHC cards (after using P2) but I've not had one fail - knock on wood - so I've grown to like them better. And even the best ones are very inexpensive.

For my work, mostly documentaries, the image quality of the AF is excellent - and I can easily make it perfectly match my 4.2.2 HPX250. I never was a fan of "photo-realism" in art, and I'm not enthralled by the video-game look produced by the new breed of large sensor cameras. It's my opinion, but I prefer the 16mm-like look of the AF100.

And I'm getting as sick of artificial looking bokeh as I am of over-used slow motion - really, haven't we had enough?

However… I may be a dinosaur, but I'm not blind - we all know the camera/sensor needs to be, and could be, greatly improved. Sadly it's now regularly referred to in blogs with adjectives such as "the ill-fated AF100" and "the beleaguered AF100".

I know that Panasonic has financial woes and aren't likely to produce an AF200 any time soon - but compare it to the American automotive industry. Five years ago they were going in the toilet, but (admittedly with the help of federal bail-out money) have since produced some of the best cars they've made for over 50 years, a major turn-around. It shows that aggressive, innovative, market-focused product saves a manufacturer, not conservative cut backs.
 
Thanks for sharing. If you don't mind a newbie question? I have the 12-35 as well, and I understand this great camera's limitations, and know that I should stop down a bit in certain condtions. You mention you stopped down 1-1 1/2 stops. How do you guage this? Or in other words, how do you know you have stopped down by that amount?

Cheers.
 
Use your waveform and dont let your highlights mash up at the top. It will go flat and start to form a "T" at the top of the waveform. If you go that high you could have off color probably yellow highlights instead of white. I dont have issues because I know it could happen and how to avoid it. Lighting is the key. Use bounce boards outside so you dont have to push the iris as hard.
It does bum me out that no new AF will be available anytime soon but I will continue to use my AF-100 for some time still since I now have a GH3 that shares the same lenses and hopefully an upgrade is going to happen but until then...........
 
The AF100A is being released now.

It seems unlikely that a replacement would be released so quickly after the AF100A. But the only ones who really know what will or won't be released this year are the guys at Panasonic.
 
Listen Panny....

Take the Gh3 and stretch it out. Address the very minor aliasing/moire of the Gh3 sensor. House it in a C100 style form factor. Give it SDi 422 10bit. Forget the Hdmi port and build your own native EVF like RED's Bomb Evf with a dedicated port. You could also add a touch screen that will work with that port. Leave the codecs of the Gh3 in as we will be recording to externals when needed. Keep it M 4/3s so we can mount what we want and still use your nice G lenses. Sell it for $6000. Give it WIFI so we can send an image to the retina Ipad and customize our in camera looks to upload back to camera. Deliver by June 2013 or suffer.
 
Why should anyone jump ship from a system that's working well and earning paychecks? To what? To a more expensive system with greater bulk and less flexibility?

Now, if nothing significant comes forth and clients begin specifying material that the AF simply can't deliver, then by all means, farewell AF. Otherwise it's all just "chasing the dragon."
 
Ive been using the AF100 since early 2011 - as well as three other cameras - and here are my long-term impressions. Sorry it's long, but it has been nearly two years.

I'll start with the most negative - highlight and chroma clipping. This has been hashed and rehashed so often that I won't say much, except that I am more forgiving than most, because it isn't usually that distracting to the viewer - and I can live with blown out whites and an occasional odd color in out-of-focus distant foliage for instance.

Yes. I think every AF100 owner has to learn how to live with this problem. It's the only way to not start hating your camera. It's everywhere. Basically in every daylight video shot by an AF100. Even videos posted on the forums where other AF100 owners will say look great I can always find yellow blown outs and chroma clipping. This is the camera's weakness and it's not changing and I doubt the AF100A has corrected that too. But if you are shooting inside, the camera can really shine.

But I had one major problem several months ago shooting an outdoor party for a local actor/director as a favor for a wealthy woman at her home in Pebble Beach. She was wearing a VERY expensive white silk blouse and, because of the reflective quality of the silk, the shadows in the folds went an ugly purple. The exposure was correct (my usual 1 - 1 1/2 stops under, Chroma at -4). Normally I might have let it go. But because I knew she paid a lot for the blouse (probably more than I made that month), I had to deal with it in post. It was fixable, but it took a lot of time and swearing.

To be honest, I'm not sure a FS100 or FS700 or even a F3 at REC709 wouldn't also have had problems in this situation. This is more of a digital weakness than an AF100 one. The purple fringe could also be caused by the lens.

This single event is why I've posted here several times hoping for a new sensor in the 100 sequel, which unfortunately isn't… well, you know.

The next week I placed a pre-order for an FS700 - one bad experience (not even a paid job) and I was ready to change. But after evaluating the fact that I wouldn't gain that much (i.e. color space, codec), I decided to stick with the AF because of what I do like about it, and because of the introduction of two new zoom lenses.

It's really a pity Panasonic is sleeping in the trenches. The only explanation I can see is that they are broke. It can't be that they are just too dumb to see the light. And please spare me the usual "The AF100 is alone in it's segment, has no competition and is selling well" comment. We all know this is not the case and they don't even need to discontinue the AF100. Just release an AF250 in the above bracket. Sony has several large sensor cameras in different brackets. Panasonic has exactly one large sensor camera.

I like the MFT sensor size because it allows use of those lighter lenses - and the camera itself is so light that it's a pleasure to work with all day handheld, and allows me to pack a lightweight tripod (I've built a custom fitted EVF mount, matte box base and shoulder brace).

My feelings exactly.


Minor rants and raves:

I like that the recording setup (i.e. 24p or 30p) is programmed within the individual scene files, but I wish the names were displayed in the menu so I could identify them.

Yes and I also wish it recorded more useful metadata.

I really miss the scene file wheel (my HPX250 has it, and when I use that camera I remember how much I like it).

Yes. This is one of my biggest grips when it comes to function right after the lack of focus expand.

I like that the Power Switch is a real switch and is placed with the Mode button under the LCD - this makes it convenient to set the camera in my lap and review/delete clips.

And is very hard to switch off by accident too, which is good. Some of the Sony cameras have very easy to switch off by accident power switches that drive me batty.


For my work, mostly documentaries, the image quality of the AF is excellent - and I can easily make it perfectly match my 4.2.2 HPX250. I never was a fan of "photo-realism" in art, and I'm not enthralled by the video-game look produced by the new breed of large sensor cameras. It's my opinion, but I prefer the 16mm-like look of the AF100.

I don't think the AF100 produces a 16mm look at all. It produces as much of a 35mm look as any digital large sensor camera out there. Why do you say that, because of DOF, sharpness? In any case, neither give it a 16mm look IMO. The DOF is so ridiculously close to 35mm that only pixel peepers will even say anything about it. The sharpness is plenty and more than the "holy grail" of cheap digital 35mm acquisition, also known as the 5D.


However… I may be a dinosaur, but I'm not blind - we all know the camera/sensor needs to be, and could be, greatly improved. Sadly it's now regularly referred to in blogs with adjectives such as "the ill-fated AF100" and "the beleaguered AF100".

Yep. I have had some people turn their nose on me because of the AF100 and even mention the bad things they have read online about the camera. Then you have to explain it and etc, etc. I would rather not have to but oh well.

I'm waiting to see how the camera scene will be this year and then I will probably change. I just will not go with a FS100 or FS700, not even if they pay me. And I also don't want to go with a F3. Besides I don't think the price/benefit ratio makes the F3 worth it. The F5 is more than I want to spend for a camera at the moment. I will also not go for a C100 either. Not enough in there to attract me and the C300 price/benefit ratio is also not attractive. Not to mention I absolutely hate the half HDSLR half Super-8 camera form factor of the Canon C-series. The BMC is not even in my sight. This is basically the reason I'm sticking with the AF100 for now. If nothing changes after NAB I will most likely buy a Scarlet. Not crazy about the form factor either but it's modular and way better than the C300. Besides that it has a lot of great features.
 
Listen Panny....

Take the Gh3 and stretch it out. Address the very minor aliasing/moire of the Gh3 sensor.

Then it wont be as sharp and people will ***** about it. This is basically what Panasonic already did with the AF100 sensor.

House it in a C100 style form factor.

Oh no! Please NO! Definitely NO! Why would anybody want an Super8 type of camera in this day and age is beyond me. The perfect form factor IMO is the Alexa. Many DPs also share that opinion. Even Sony has recognized that and made the f5/55 in that form factor. The AF100 and F3 are closer to that then the funky Canon C-series shape. Do not destroy the best thing about the AF100. It's form factor, ergonomics and functionality.

Give it SDi 422 10bit.

Some will say they already have. But I know what you mean.

Forget the Hdmi port and build your own native EVF like RED's Bomb Evf with a dedicated port.

Will never happen. There are also so many EVFs on the market already in all price levels.


You could also add a touch screen that will work with that port.

Please leave iPhone features off of a professional tool. This is what I hate most about the GH2.

Leave the codecs of the Gh3 in as we will be recording to externals when needed. Keep it M 4/3s so we can mount what we want and still use your nice G lenses.
This is all good.

Sell it for $6000.

Not gonna happen. The C100 is not half of what you are asking and costs more. It's nice to dream but people want a Mercedes for the price of a Chevy. Just unrealistic. Yes I know the BMC is cheap but it's not a full camera.

Deliver by June 2013 or suffer.

Ahahaha. I have just now figured you were joking all along. You almost got me there. Hehehehe. Good one!
 
Response to some of the comments above (I won't copy them since they're right up there). First, the lens I was using was the Nokton, so I kinda doubt that was the cause of the color, I've seen it with the Leica lenses as well (but, as I said, I can usually live with it)...

- I forgot to add that this chroma clipping isn't new. I shot for nearly four years with the HPX500 with an excellent Fujinon lens, and it was much worse on that camera - that's probably why I've learned to accept it and deal with it. -

Second, I do compare the AF to super16 because the overall look is more similar to me - I've shot lots of super16 and 35 (in fact, I just shot a spot with my Aaton, first time in almost 10 years, client wanted it), and while the resolution of HD is much better, the "tactile" feel of the AF100 image is more like good super16 - this admittedly is very subjective, but it is what has drawn me to Panasonic since the DVX.

Also - I absolutely did not intend to start another redundant "things to fix" thread!

I wanted to focus on the positives. For example, I used a friend's FS700 recently, and I wasn't impressed. The AF100 has been dissed by many people who either have never used one, or have unrealistic expectations from a very inexpensive camera. The F5, fully equipped with finder, batteries and cards, would be nearly $30,000 - Thtat's just to much to spend for an independent in this volatile market. The AF100 is built like a professional camera for a fraction of the cost - and with native MFT lenses it is lighter and more user-friendly than anything else with NDs and XLRs. If I was using PL mount cine primes shooting for theatrical it might be a different story, but I'm not, and, realistically, I doubt many are. It's really a case of the right tool for the job.

I will add a small negative (I should probably include this in another thread though) - I am a little disappointed with the Lumix 35-100.. The image quality is terrific, but, after several satisfying months with the 12-35, I was surprised that the manual focus and iris adjustment of the 35-100 are so spongy feeling - The wide lens feels very positive, this lens not so much. Strange, coming from the same house.
 
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Listen Panny....

Take the Gh3 and stretch it out. Address the very minor aliasing/moire of the Gh3 sensor. House it in a C100 style form factor. Give it SDi 422 10bit. Forget the Hdmi port and build your own native EVF like RED's Bomb Evf with a dedicated port. You could also add a touch screen that will work with that port. Leave the codecs of the Gh3 in as we will be recording to externals when needed. Keep it M 4/3s so we can mount what we want and still use your nice G lenses. Sell it for $6000. Give it WIFI so we can send an image to the retina Ipad and customize our in camera looks to upload back to camera. Deliver by June 2013 or suffer.

Agreed! NDs, waveform would be essential too! HDMI connectivity would still be welcome for directors monitors and basic video out reviewing on cheaper shoots but I'd get that from SDI loop through on the shuttle.

I think above is a very plausible camera that requires very little R&D.
 
Agreed Mac- let's not start another redundant "things to fix" thread. However... :evil:

I agree with dusty- if there was a mashup of the GH3/C100/AF100 (the AFCGH3-100???), and $6000 is unrealistic, I could see dropping $7000 for one, were it complete.

In the meantime, I'm with mcbob- keep making money with the AF, and sans the above camera (dustycam?), I could possibly see sticking with the AF to 2015.

Call me crazy?
 
Second, I do compare the AF to super16 because the overall look is more similar to me - I've shot lots of super16 and 35 (in fact, I just shot a spot with my Aaton, first time in almost 10 years, client wanted it), and while the resolution of HD is much better, the "tactile" feel of the AF100 image is more like good super16 - this admittedly is very subjective, but it is what has drawn me to Panasonic since the DVX.

And the FS700 or 5D are comparable to 35mm then? Because they all have the same characteristics. Shallow DOF, higher resolution, Digital clean etc.

I guess it is subjective. I just don't see it. The main characteristics that separate S16 from 35 are grain (if blown up to 35mm), deeper DOF and lower resolution. Yes, the AF100 has a lower resolution than many cameras, but it's still above 16mm most likely. The grain and DOF are also not in the 16mm ballpark at all. Most people who don't own the cameras or are not pixel peepers wouldn't be able to tell the difference between FS700, 7D or AF100 well shot footage.


The AF100 is built like a professional camera for a fraction of the cost - and with native MFT lenses it is lighter and more user-friendly than anything else with NDs and XLRs. If I was using PL mount cine primes shooting for theatrical it might be a different story, but I'm not, and, realistically, I doubt many are. It's really a case of the right tool for the job.

Well, I use PL glass and to tell you the truth it doesn't impact the image quality as much as it impacts the usability, shooting experience and workflow. I also like the MFT format for it's flexibility. I don't miss the shallower DOF from a S35 sensor at all. But then again I don't shoot at T5.6.
 
Adamsenoj;1986258374 I guess it is subjective. I just don't see it. The main characteristics that separate S16 from 35 are grain (if blown up to 35mm) said:
Look, I'm one of those that fought hard through the 70s and 80s for super16, so I'm very biased - it's like my child, and I'm reluctant to give up on her. When I see shows shot on super16 on television, it's very nostolgic for me.. You may not agree with me, but my comparison is meant as a positive. Nuff said.

Oh, and those other cameras you mentioned - they look like video. Good video maybe, but video.
 
Agreed Mac- let's not start another redundant "things to fix" thread. However... :evil:

I agree with dusty- if there was a mashup of the GH3/C100/AF100 (the AFCGH3-100???), and $6000 is unrealistic, I could see dropping $7000 for one, were it complete.

In the meantime, I'm with mcbob- keep making money with the AF, and sans the above camera (dustycam?), I could possibly see sticking with the AF to 2015.

Call me crazy?
Yes... The DUSTYCAM! Give it to me! That sounds wrong...
Nobody even mentioned my WI-FI app that would allow you to set the picture style in cam via iPad. Sort of a pre-grade before you roll. The Wi-FI could also serve as client monitor and replace the HDMI.
 
Look, I'm one of those that fought hard through the 70s and 80s for super16, so I'm very biased - it's like my child, and I'm reluctant to give up on her. When I see shows shot on super16 on television, it's very nostolgic for me.. You may not agree with me, but my comparison is meant as a positive. Nuff said.

Don't get me wrong. I love 16mm as well. I love anything celluloid. Every time I find out a movie was shot on 16mm I make sure to catch it in theaters. I love the texture.
I'm just saying that I don't see it when it comes to the AF100. I don't mean this is a bad or good thing. Just that I don't see it. ;)
 
Hey MAC,
informative post, have you been using an external recorder or the internal codec?
I have been using the Nanoflash with the AF since it first came into the market with excellent
results.
 
The AF100A is being released now.

It seems unlikely that a replacement would be released so quickly after the AF100A. But the only ones who really know what will or won't be released this year are the guys at Panasonic.
It's a shame Panasonic is sticking to an old update policy and only offering one model in the MFT line of digital cinema large sensor cameras.
 
It's a shame Panasonic is sticking to an old update policy and only offering one model in the MFT line of digital cinema large sensor cameras.

I get the impression Panasonic are just like many other companies, too slow to react and to content to stick to an old model of business that's getting quickly out of date. The old guard will need to change. Sony seems to be doing so. Otherwise newer sharper companies will take their place like BMC, RED and others.

I have really enjoyed my AF100 but it has been a frustrating camera to get great images out of some times.
 
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