International HVX availability

M

Malcolm Wright

Well-known member
Hi all,

Quite a few questions here...
I've got to travel a fair bit over the next few months, and I'm trying to figure out at what point in these travels I'll be able to pick up an HVX200 where I happen to be...

I'm in New Zealand until December 20th: I don't think there is a chance in hell of the camera being available here by then...
Then I am in France until January 22st: the word is March for Europe, so my plans are foiled again...
Here's my hope: I fly back to Australasia via Singapore, and will have an entire day there January 23rd... Could it be that the HVX200 might be available there at that time?

I am then in Australia from February onwards, with a project to shoot there starting in March... and I know nothing of the projected release dates for Australia.

Cost is another factor: I am almost certain I'll lose hundreds of dollars if I end up having to buy the camera in Australia... It is almost worth changing my plane ticket to return to Australasia via the US so I can pick up the camera there - the fee I would pay to change the ticket would be far less than the premium we have to pay for electronics in this part of the world...

Is that a viable plan? Is the HVX going to be readily available in California by January 20th? Or will Panasonic still be busy filling backed up orders? Jan's crystal ball would be greatly appreciated on this one...

Am I right to be considering it preferable to go with the NTSC version of the camera to get that extra 10 fields/second for overcranking? Am I right to believe I can transcode to PAL with fairly cheap software if need be?

I know, a deluge of questions... any and all answers are greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
M.
 
seriously: are you sure? - Gotta discuss it with a genealogist - who knows.... right? :happy: I mean, you might have common relatives much closer than you think...
 
I'd strongly sugest goign with the PAL camera. . The NTSC one has a huge potential for problems.

- Onsite monitoring not garuntieed, conversion required of ALL work from NTSC to PAL - NTSC is a worse format with less resolution, tapes will need NTSC camera to play back and you msot likly can't play PAL tapes. - of course P2 is slightly different.

Unfortuantly there's more to formats than framerate :-(

- Mikko
 
engr said:
Check here. U maybe able to catch it in Singapore in Jan 06.
Click to expand...

Thanks engr!

I know of that store and was planning to buy the HVX from them if it is available in time. Their website does not mention any availability dates so I have sent them an email: hopefully they will respond.

:)

M.
 
mikkowilson said:
I'd strongly sugest goign with the PAL camera. . The NTSC one has a huge potential for problems.

- Onsite monitoring not garuntieed,
Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean by 'on-site monitoring not guaranteed'...

conversion required of ALL work from NTSC to PAL
Click to expand...

Why ALL work? I'll be using the camera almost exclusively to shoot HD, so I think I won't have to convert much of my footage to PAL...

- NTSC is a worse format with less resolution, tapes will need NTSC camera to play back and you msot likly can't play PAL tapes.
Click to expand...

I thought NTSC simply had less spatial resolution and more temporal resolution. I'm not sure that one can call that worse. And in the most common scenario for my work I would be shooting in HD anyway, so I could down res to PAL if need be once the footage is in the computer, right?

I'm not too concerned with not being able to playback PAL tapes, or not being able to playback my NTSC tapes on PAL decks as my workflow should always be from the camera to my editing system directly. I'll never be outputting to DV tape...


Are there any other reasons why NTSC is a bad idea? I'd love to hear a broad range of opinions...

If anyone is able to ask Jan about availability in the various places and times outlined in the seminal post, I'd be very grateful!

Thanks,
M.
 
wel my main concers are: remebr that even thoguh the resolutions match in HD, the framerates don't.- Granted most HD mnitors will display either.
But if you ever want to use teh composite output of the camera (field monitor.. maybe on a jib, etc..) you will be stuck to the format. Buy garuntieid I mena that I can take ANY PAL video camera, from VHS-C through DigiBeta and plug it into ANY PAL TV or Monitor and it will show me the picture.
By using a NTSC camera in an PAL area you loose that basic compatibilty created by the standard.
Also don't forget that the NTSC HVX200 doens't support any PAL frame rates and vice-versa. 24P isnt' 25P and will awyas require conversion to display.

P.S. Panasonic .. heck, everyone: just make all the damn cameras (at least the good ones) format switchable!

- Mikko
 
mikkowilson said:
I'd strongly sugest goign with the PAL camera. . The NTSC one has a huge potential for problems.

-> Onsite monitoring not garuntieed, conversion required of ALL work from NTSC to PAL - NTSC is a worse format with less resolution, tapes will need NTSC camera to play back and you most likely can't play PAL tapes. - of course P2 is slightly different. Unfortuantly there's more to formats than framerate :-(
Click to expand...

Mikko, you should not put in a opinion when it has been pointed out that many sets can handle both, PAL and NTSC, esp. on your side of the world. The decision should be based on much better ground, what is the required delivery format, when all is said and done? is the better question. Onsite monitorining is guaranteed, if you take care to do so. Did you mean something else?

Deal maker is, what format do you need to deliver in 80% of the time. Unfortunately I am not totally clued in on where the dealers have them presold, so do not consider me the bellweather for availability. Call around. If it is available, it will be in the US.

Best,

Jan
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
Mikko, you should not put in a opinion when it has been pointed out that many sets can handle both, PAL and NTSC, esp. on your side of the world. The decision should be based on much better ground, what is the required delivery format, when all is said and done? is the better question. Onsite monitorining is guaranteed, if you take care to do so. Did you mean something else?

Deal maker is, what format do you need to deliver in 80% of the time. Unfortunately I am not totally clued in on where the dealers have them presold, so do not consider me the bellweather for availability. Call around. If it is available, it will be in the US.

Best,

Jan
Click to expand...

Thanks Jan.
Should I take that to indicate that it definitely won't be available in Singapore by late January? Remember that I am making travel plans around this information, so please be as specific as you can...

In terms of availability, I was hoping you could let me know whether Panasonic believes it can meet demands by January 20th. Surely this is something you are keeping track of? I can ask as many retailers as I can shake a stick at: all they can tell me is how many presales they have made. Only Panasonic can tell me whether enough cameras will be being made by then to make the camera readily available for those who have not pre-purchased.

Thanks,
M.

Edit: Ok, in another thread I have read mentions of February before the camera can be purchase don a walk-in basis. Is this right? Or do you anticipate the mid-January shipment you mention in the sticky thread to put you ahead of demand already?
 
Jan, I agree with you.. I guess I wash pushing my point a little too hard.

Over here I see a lot of people buying an NTSC camera beacuse it's cheaper, more avaiable etc, and then beeing dissapointed because of the unfortunate incompatabeleties.. I just want to make sure to point out the areas for potential problems.
With a bit of planning pretty much anything is possible :)


Hmm... has anyone counted the total number of framerates available if you include BOTH PAL and NTSC models? ..now that should be quite a choice!

- Mikko
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
Mikko, you should not put in a opinion when it has been pointed out that many sets can handle both, PAL and NTSC, esp. on your side of the world. The decision should be based on much better ground, what is the required delivery format, when all is said and done? is the better question. Onsite monitorining is guaranteed, if you take care to do so. Did you mean something else?

Deal maker is, what format do you need to deliver in 80% of the time.
Click to expand...

You're right that the delivery format is the biggest influence in which one to purchase - if you're working (more or less) in isolation; but there are also wider ramifications if you choose to work in a framerate or TV system that is not "native" to your broadcast region if you need to share your production footage with others (particulary VHS or DVD copies for approval, paper edits, etc.).

Whilst the majority of TVs in PAL regions can cope with NTSC, VHS recorders cannot *record* from NTSC sources and many DVD players can't cope with NTSC.

You'll also often pay a premium for hiring kit that is "guaranteed" NTSC compatible for monitoring, etc.

I guess it's not a decision to make lightly.
 
What I don't understand is why support for both formats is not included, at least in the framerates so I can downres to PAL and NTSC with the same camera depending on the project.
I shoot projects in PAL and NTSC and it will make my life a lot easier
the Sony HVR-Z1U supports both formats, all panasonic has to do is add some framerates
 
EShy said:
What I don't understand is why support for both formats is not included, at least in the framerates so I can downres to PAL and NTSC with the same camera depending on the project.
I shoot projects in PAL and NTSC and it will make my life a lot easier
the Sony HVR-Z1U supports both formats, all panasonic has to do is add some framerates
Click to expand...

If only the world could have come together on HD, ignored all legacy and logistical issues and chosen a nice new frame rate that everyone could use - something easy to work with like 42.37fps...

Okay, perhaps not. But it's funny, because one of the original aims of HD (many years ago) was a universal standard. A nice idea, but completely impractical to implement, because of the issue of simulcasting HD and SD broadcasts...

As for multistandard on the HVX200... The DVCProHD codec is different not just in framerate but also in resolution between the NTSC region and PAL region cameras. And I get the feeling it makes it more complicated than HDV... Perhaps?
 
There is a big 50 HZ (PAL) market ...

Abu Dhabi Gibraltar Pakistan Afghanistan Greenland Papua New Guinea
Albania Guinea Paraguay Algeria Guinea-Bissau Poland France
Angola Portugal Argentina Hong Kong Qatar Ascension Island Iceland Sardinia Australia
India Seychelles Austria Indonesia Sierra Leone Azores Ireland Singapore Bahrain Israel Slovenia Bangladesh Italy Solomon Islands Belgium Jordan Somalia Bosnia Herzegovina Kenya South Africa Botswana Kuwait Spain Brunei Lebanon Sri Lanka Cameroon Lesotho Sudan Canary Islands:laugh: Liberia Swaziland Cape Verde Liechtenstein Sweden Cayman Islands Luxembourg Switzerland

China

Macao Syria Christmas Island Macedonia Tanzania Cook Island Madeira Thailand Croatia Malawi Tonga Cyprus Malaysia Tristian Da Cunah Denmark Maldives Turkey
Dubai Greece Malta Uganda Easter Island Montenegro United Arab Emirates
Eritrea Mozambique United Kingdom Ethiopia Greece Namibia Vanuatu Falkland Islands Nepal Vatican Faroe Islands Netherlands:happy: Yemen Finland New Zealand Yugoslavia Gambia Nigeria Zambia Gaza and West Bank Norfolk Island Zanzibar Germany Norway Zimbabwe Ghana Oman
 
well the HVX supports a Ridiculous amount for recording options; - in NTSC: DV at 24p, 30p, 60i; DVCPRO, DVCPRO50 at the same, in both 4:3 and 16:9!, DVCPROHD 1080 at the same, and then the 720 at large number of framerates. Jan said that she has counted nearing 40 different recording froms that the (NTSC) HVX can do that's a poop load of stuff in a very little body .. and quite and engineering feat. By making the camera format agile, you'd need to DOUBLE the recording options! not one of those recording formats is the same in both regions! anything DVCpro has diffenreces, and NTSC and PAL DV are very different too.

Framerates and resolutions asside, there's still a lot of stuff that differs, especially at the suepr technical level ..would need new eoncoders for S- an Composite video, and component, firewire output options, DSP, CCD reading changes, so much stuff.

Lukily once we are in the computer/IT domain - on P2 - then it doens't matter so much as computers can be so easily expanded to house all the necesary codecs - but at the business end (the camera) as well as the display end (monitors) there are many aspects that require physical, not jsut virtual differences.

The Z1 can do both formats, and I really aplaud it for dooing that, I woudl still consider it if I was busying a camera (as I dont' need HD right now, work mostly in DV and DVCAM). And if the A1 could switch I would probably have one. But even with the dual formats, that's still a total of about, what 10(?) recording modes - less than the HVX in 720 alone!

I do agree with EShy's coment that it would have been really nice to see a couple of matching formats in each version of the HVX. If both versions for example could have given me just 25p and 30p in 720p mode, that would have been VERY usefull. Toss in PAL and NTSC downconversion to DV (Tape/Firewire) and composite output in both (or even just correct for the framerate) [at those framerates only would do] woudl be even better, or support for both PAL and NTSC with tape only, and then not only would it not be almost univarsal in artistic choice, but also in basic compatability.

I really eagerly await the day that it is just "video" and the rest doesn't matter. "One camera to rule them all". But that day is still along way away.

xray; why isn't Finland in red on your list? :shocked:

- Mikko
 
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