Interesting comment about the depressing state of the camera hire market

J

jakebickerton

Carbonite Member
Hi,

I'm working on a feature for the next issue of Televisual magazine that ranks the top 10 most hired cameras of the last year. As part of my research for the piece, Mark Sloper, director, 400 Company emailed me with a very candid description of the trials of running a camera hire company in 2011. It's an interesting read that Sloper didn't mind sharing on the Televisual website – you can read his comment at http://www.televisual.com/blog-detail/Confessions-of-a-hire-company_bid-215.html

Thanks,
Jake Bickerton,
Features editor, Televisual magazine/website
 
Interesting indeed as a small videoproduction company in a developing country I'm experiencing archival issues aswell.
Hard drives are cheap but very vulnerable .

Missing tape when we're done with big projects !
 
Thanks for the link, jake. Very interesting article, and I'm looking forward to seeing the results of the poll. I can say that I was very tempted to go into debt to purchase a Red One last year, with the intent on renting it out to try to make some money in multiple ways. After doing some research I figured that the rental market for that camera had fallen too far to even try, so I went with a setup that was versatile and more manageable as far as the financial side of things.

I would really hate to try to start a camera rental business at this point in time. I'm interested to see what happens to camera prices.
 
Thanks Everts and Gary. It seems the camera rental market is pretty challenging right now and not getting any easier thanks to the never ending list of camera models and formats you have to juggle around with. Best of luck to you both with your endeavours, Jake.
 
Everts said:
Interesting indeed as a small videoproduction company in a developing country I'm experiencing archival issues aswell.
Hard drives are cheap but very vulnerable .

Missing tape when we're done with big projects !
Click to expand...

People shooting to solid state media and editing to hard drives are backing up to LTO-data tapes these days for archival storage. Estimated 30 year shelf life.
 
With the price of high quality cameras dropping to a range where personal ownership is easier, buying a camera as an owner/operator with the idea of paying for it with side rentals is a risky venture. Better to develop clients and work to support your hardware.
 
"We are interested in the Sony PMW-F3 Super 35mm camcorder, not only will it hopefully get rid of the silly DSLR cameras that are infiltrating the industry through students (they can’t capture motion) but hopefully it might even spec up to take on the infamous Red.

We’re hoping a full size model appears with the same inner workings and interchangeable lenses so that proper cameramen can put it on their shoulder without a Heath Robinson invented brace. The Panasonic 101 we have the same feelings about."

What does he mean when he says that DSLRs can't capture motion, or is he refering to students? Either way it seems like a very fusty old man in the camera hire business thing to say.
 
Yeah, but that only shows his ignorance then, as the GH1 andf GH2, for example, have considerably less rolling shutter issues than the RED One.

In truth, of course he despises the DSLR revolution, because it is directly responsible for his loss of hire. More power to us, the consumer.
 
In truth, of course he despises the DSLR revolution, because it is directly responsible for his loss of hire. More power to us, the consumer.
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Very possibly but im sure theres more to it than meets the eye. The DSLR revolution to me sounds like some kind of irritating hipster brand, and if its a revolution then perhaps we experience one every 6 months, when the new fangled toy gets us fumbling into our pockets ;)

I'd say the rental market is just suffering under the sheer volume of product - but you know Lucas, your deffo right imo about dslr giving a huge amount of power to new consumers/filmmakers etc. There positively liberating compared to technology available before (for its price)
 
Lucas Adamson said:

What does he mean when he says that DSLRs can't capture motion, or is he refering to students? Either way it seems like a very fusty old man in the camera hire business thing to say.
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No, to me it sounds like a professional who would not trust renting a camera to clients that could potentially overheat, or exhibit nasty aliasing and moire artifacts. Or would be the wrong tool to record something with fast action like racing.
 
Lucas Adamson said:
Yeah, but that only shows his ignorance then, as the GH1 andf GH2, for example, have considerably less rolling shutter issues than the RED One.

In truth, of course he despises the DSLR revolution, because it is directly responsible for his loss of hire. More power to us, the consumer.
Click to expand...

You are out of your mind if you think that. The GH1 has considerably slower rolling shutter than the Red One. Testing shows the GH1 to be inline with the 5D, which are both slower than the 7D, which are all much slower than the Red One.

Pro Video Coalition did a very valid test on most of these cameras (the red one is in the comments because he tested it after for me) and if I recall correctly (and these numbers could be a bit off) at full VIDEO resolution on each sensor, GH1 and 5D are around 25ms, 7D is at 21ms and the Red One is around 10ms. That's full read/reset. No surprise by me. (I believe the EX1 was about 11ms which is really good as well). Red claimed 8ms, but I am sure this test has some error in it, and they claim the Epic at 5ms.

So maybe one shouldn't claim ignorance without knowing what they are talking about.
 
Lucas Adamson said:
Yeah, but that only shows his ignorance then, as the GH1 andf GH2, for example, have considerably less rolling shutter issues than the RED One.
Click to expand...
Not true at all. The GH1 and GH2 have noticeable rolling shutter, much moreso than an AF100. The AF100 is probably on par with the Red One (I'd have to run a Red through The Skewer to know for certain) but the GH1/GH2 are definitely not on par with the Red One, at least in 24p mode. In 720/60p, maybe.
 
I can see what he's saying, although the truth is that the DSLR revolution has sort of killed the camera rental market and for a variety of reasons, but one of the biggest is that the big manufacturers (Sony, Panasonic, etc.) have failed time and again to release any competing product in a timely manner to make significant impact. How long did it take for Sony to get off their high horse and release the F3 instead of strangling professionals with their ultra high Cinealta prices? How long did it take for Panasonic to get out the AF100? Also, how about a simple 1080p version of the Varicam? Then Canon is on the fence feigning ignorance not only at their own success but the direction of the professional market as a whole (they really should have had uncompressed HDMI on the 1D Mark IV or a S35 sensor X-"something" camera by now). RED, of course, started things by breaking the price barrier, which was good for all of us consumers, but having such an attractive option like that on the market had to take its toll on whatever was out there already (EX1/XHA1/HVX200/etc.).

Then there's always the issue where they play against themselves. Why exactly did Canon need to release the Rebel T2i? It's essentially the 7D with some features knocked off but it still has the full 1080p capabilities with manual control, not only that but you can pick one up at Costco. So, how do they expect indies and student filmmakers to pick up their 1/3" sensor cameras, whether consumer or professional as they all basically have 24p options now, when they've got their DSLR cameras that kick major butt in value, cost, and performance? Panasonic has sort of the same issue with the AF100. They needed to compete with the EX1 and EX3, none of their cameras really gave the ol' 1-2 knockout that the HVX200 did back in the day, so when the GH1 hit, they decided to make a big pro version of that. Only problem is that they needed to keep the GH-series going so the GH2. Well, now they have their own conundrum setup that Canon does and, not only that, but they have the complicated Micro Four Thirds vs. S35 debate tossed into the mix. Then there's Sony, they sat pretty for a good while with the EX1 and EX3, but to compete against RED, they released the F35 not too long ago and now they're releasing the F3 at a significant discount, plus they have to get 1080p video on their DSLR lines at some point during this next round, I mean, they're practically dragging their feet! Overall the confusion on the manufacturers' side makes for confusion on the marketplace. Look around, how many times do you see the question "DSLR or dedicated videocam?", pretty often right?

I myself am pretty confused about the state of cameras. Look, you can do almost anything with a DSLR if you're a filmmaker. The quality is so good now that you'd be safe with almost any camera these days. Why would a RED One user move on to an Epic? Not much reason really when you think about it. I like the HDR video option and the smaller formfactor but when it all comes down to it on the professional side of things, does it really make that much of a difference? I was at the REDUser party when they were doing the MX sensor demo reel compared to the original Mysterium reel. In all honesty I couldn't tell if there were any difference at all between the two despite the fact that one "had more dynamic range" than the other. Heck, I couldn't tell if any of it looked any better than the Arri Alexa reel I saw at the Final Cut Pro Users Group party at that time either. What made matters even more complicated was that I saw on a 4K screen how a scene looked when intercut with 4K RED footage and 1080p 5D Mark II footage. Aside from one shot, I couldn't tell the difference and the only reason I noticed that one shot was because I saw a patch of classic DSLR video color moire in the background. On a technical scale, yes, it makes a difference, but if you're going to actually have lighting and all the fancy lenses and gear you need to make a professional film/commercial/etc., will you really need to go full on 4K? It's hard to say, it's all personal choice and taste, but the fact is that you can work with either one and that's certainly something that couldn't have easily been said in the old days.

I'm not sure rental markets can make money on cameras anymore. Surely they can take advantage of non-techie people for events and certain film shoots and they most certainly will have clients in the professional realm who work with larger budgets. But for the bulk of their indie and student groups, it's just easier to own a camera in this generation. Maybe once the industry moves to a 4K standard rather than 1080p, then gears will start churning again but, then again, the article did close with a very well shot 720p Varicam video.
 
Yep though that is a very low budget indie centric perspective your expressing there Jack - don't you think? How much of the rental market do they represent to rental companies or even to the main manufacturers given there scale of product and market overall?
 
Barry_Green said:
Not true at all. The GH1 and GH2 have noticeable rolling shutter, much moreso than an AF100. The AF100 is probably on par with the Red One (I'd have to run a Red through The Skewer to know for certain) but the GH1/GH2 are definitely not on par with the Red One, at least in 24p mode. In 720/60p, maybe.
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I'm not seeing that fast on the AF100. Given the testing method, I am going to make a guess at 17-18ms from what I see. We'll find out this weekend! :)
 
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