Interesting comment about the depressing state of the camera hire market

[Zack Birlew]

Yep though that is a very low budget indie centric perspective your expressing there Jack - don't you think? How much of the rental market do they represent to rental companies or even to the main manufacturers given there scale of product and market overall?

I suppose so, being a low budget indie can do that to you!

I really couldn't say how much indies and students play into the grand scheme of things but being a film student, I can tell you that the emerging market for film education in high schools and the adoption of film programs in higher education is growing every year. Not to mention that the YouTube kids who want to move beyond their iPhones is definitely something to consider in the marketplace, even if it isn't as apparent now.

 

[Lucas Adamson]

OK. My bad. I thought I had checked this, and I hadn't. I retract all comments about him being ignorant, as clearly that's silly old me, but not about him being a fusty old camera hire guy who claims that "silly" DSLRs "can't capture motion". That's clearly rubbish. Sure, for hire purposes, DSLR probably isn't robust enough, and if I was hiring, I'd want a proper video camera, but I think it's great that we can now own cameras considerably better than those we would have had to hire a few years ago. To dismiss them as silly, is only bitterness that so many productions are using them, not hiring, and his business has taken the hit more than anywhere else.

 

[Lucas Adamson]

Yeah, and there will be blood.

Frank

I waited for the blood all the way through that damned film, and boy if it wasn't a false promise, right there in the title. I preferred ALL of his other films, and "No Country" which came out at the same time, for that matter.

 

[artforme]

People rented computers in the 70's. And some people still rent super computers. I imagine HD cameras will tend to go into that direction as well. Grip and support gear will always be less risky.

 

[Robert Ruffo]

Yeah, but that only shows his ignorance then, as the GH1 andf GH2, for example, have considerably less rolling shutter issues than the RED One.

In truth, of course he despises the DSLR revolution, because it is directly responsible for his loss of hire. More power to us, the consumer.

In what world does the GH1 have any tech advantages over the Red One? Have you ever used a Red One? I guarantee the answer is no, or you would not be spreading misinformation like that.

 

[Lucas Adamson]

Alright already! I did fess up to my numpty comment! Lynch me up, for crying out loud - no I've never used a Red One.

In what world does the GH1 have any tech advantages over the Red One? Have you ever used a Red One? I guarantee the answer is no, or you would not be spreading misinformation like that.

 

[JonMW]

You know, as I sit here and read the conversation about DSLRs and "real" cameras and how DSLR is a fad to some people, I can't help but think that along with the rental industry taking a hit the overall freelance field is dry. I'm a student who is graduating soon. I cut my teeth on mini DV and now I'm warming up to P2. The fact that the industry is a revolving door and a degree isn't really necessary is frustrating.

Just venting.

 

[jaycanode]

Interesting that no one is faulting the economy! I used to get cold calls quite frequently for cam op services before 2008. Now I'm scraping the barrel. Anyone notice the largest rental house between two coasts went under last year? (FVESCO out of Denver) Anyone notice TV stations are actually going out of business?

Sure there's a glut of super powerful afordable tools and in turn a glut of amateurs but there's also an increasing changeover to the internet as our TV delivery system. To boot, the market has dropped out. These are the causes of the pain we are feeling.

 

[vanvideo]

Oh, I fault the economy. I got laid off because of loss in ad revenues. Now I'm trying to make my way as a freelancer - again.

 

[Perry Wilson]

This guy is DSLR RACIST lol... dont know why people hate, its not about what f^&king camera you have its about your skill in the craft, angles, story telling, understanding of color and lighting ect. Im so tired of all this naysaying people need to put up or shut up, I just finished shooting a whole indi on my 7D with two lenses, guess what it cost me next to nothing, it looks amazing, and the production company that hired me is more than happy with my DP work on it, thats it. Yes I am going to be getting whatever camera makes waves in the industry what ever that may be, but thats because I like messing with camera technology and learning new things, NOT BECAUSE LIKE MANY PEOPLE I NEED RESOLUTION TO CRUCH MY INABILITY TO CREATE GOOD WORK. No matter what camera you have if you dont have it you dont have it, even the 28k res from the RED 645 MONSTER will save you

 

[zijital]

People rented computers in the 70's. And some people still rent super computers. I imagine HD cameras will tend to go into that direction as well. Grip and support gear will always be less risky.

I see more reason to rent now than in the past. How long did BetaSP reign? I highly doubt that any HD format will ever gain that much dominance.

You can own a dozen cameras & hope that they all pay for themselves, or you can rent whatever the "it" camera is for the month & bill the client. Yeah, you'll lose that entire rental fee that you'd pocket if you had a paid off camera, but it is an option for people that need that option.



As for DSLR... If a 7D cost $20k & had all the problems it has for video (ACG, live output, etc...), no one would be calling it a revolution & no one would be excited by these DSLRs. But since it costs $2k it is "cheap" for pro video guys. You have money left over to find solutions for all those problems, but bottom line is you get what you pay for.

I see it as a Venn diagram where still cameras & motion cameras overlap a WHOLE LOT more than they did a few years ago. This has been written on the wall for all to see as soon as still cameras went digital, but there will still be cameras for motion & cameras for still.


I'll be interested to see the top 10 rentals list & see how much tape is still on that list. If you want to call anyone "fusty," call the people still shooting SD on tape.

 

[philiplipetz]

I see more reason to rent now than in the past. ...

You can own a dozen cameras & hope that they all pay for themselves, or you can rent whatever the "it" camera is for the month & bill the client. Yeah, you'll lose that entire rental fee that you'd pocket if you had a paid off camera, but it is an option for people that need that option.

In my little corner of the world the economy has changed clients' outlook and they are much less willing to pay for rentals.

 

[zijital]

In my little corner of the world the economy has changed clients' outlook and they are much less willing to pay for rentals.

Do their requests follow their check book? I work for one company that doesn't care if I shoot with a HVX, EX1 or XHA1. If that is how it works with your slice of clients, you're definitely better off owning than renting.

Now if someone requests I shoot with a HVX200a & NOT a HVX200 on Monday, & then I use a EX1R & NOT a EX1 on Tuesday... I think the client should pay more for that.


My argument for renting more now than in the past is for clients that only want the "IT" camera of the day. And it seems like every 6 months there is a new "IT" camera in some circles. If I can only get 12 gigs with a XF300 before Panasonic releases something new at NAB & the XF300 becomes a door stop, then I'm probably going to rent the XF300 instead of purchasing one.

Whether or not you're renting equipment, you should be charging the client for the equipment you use. Your gear should be a line item by itself or worked into your flat day rate / hourly rate. If you're not charging enough to cover the cost of renting your camera from a 3rd party you're not charging enough.