Indoor Mic to Compliment Outdoor MKH 8060's

Joshua Milligan

Joshua Milligan

Well-known member
Hey fellas. I have two Sennheiser MKH 8060's that I use for outdoor interviews, often filming one person interviewing another. I typically have two boom poles setup on C-stands connecting these mics with XLR cables running to my FS7. I also run Sony wireless kits with Sanken COS-11D lavs as backups. For recording interviews outdoors, this has been great and I love the audio I get from the Sennheisers. I also really like the Sanken lavs and they make for great backups to the shotgun mics.

Lately, however, I've been having to do a lot of indoor work where obviously my shotgun mics don't shine. Sometimes reflections aren't bad and my shotguns sound just fine, but sometimes they don't. I realize that shotgun mics aren't always the best option for indoor dialogue, so I wanted to see if I could get some suggestions for indoor mics to boom with when my Sennheisers won't cut it. I plan to still boom them on C-stands just like my Sennheisers.

I'm still somewhat new to audio, but I've learned a lot and am working hard to expand my audio gear. I'm just not sure what to add to complete my outdoor / indoor boom kit. Can you provide some suggestions for me?
 
Perhaps an 8040 cardioid? I'm more in the Schoeps camp, but I've worked with the 8040 a bit. It's nice
https://en-us.sennheiser.com/condenser-microphone-cardioid-guitar-acoustic-bass-brass-mkh-8040

Some prefer the 8050 super-cardioid, but it's a bit narrower than I think it optimal. There's also the new(ish) 8090 cardioid that I think might be more of a location-sound version of the 8040. But I'm really not sure about that.
https://en-us.sennheiser.com/shotgun-microphone

None of those are cheap, but they'd share some characteristics and 19mm diameter with your existing two mics (so you could perhaps share mounts).
 
Since you are in the MKH series I would stay in the family. They are remarkable microphones. The MKH 50 or 8050 are the usual indoor interview mics. Handling noise can be an issue if you have it on a pole. Low freq cutoff on the mic can help in that regard.

The 50 is my go to indoor mic but you may wish to pair your existing with the 8050. If you can rent good mics in your city, you may wish to do that to see which is better for the sound you want.

Google "mkh 50 vs mkh 8050"
 
Joshua Milligan said:
...I wanted to see if I could get some suggestions for indoor mics to boom with when my Sennheisers won't cut it. I plan to still boom them on C-stands just like my Sennheisers.
Click to expand...

The obvious suggestion is more Sennheisers. MKH 8050s are very popular for indoor dialog work, as are 8040s.

Alternatively, you could go for a Schoeps CMC6-mk41. Pricey, but perhaps the best sounding hyper on the market today.

If you're looking for less money, and are willing to settle for a little less sound quality, the indy film maker favorite hypers are still the AT 4053b and the Audix SCX1-HC. The 4053b is less than 1/3 the cost of the Schoeps, but gives you about 80% of the sound quality which makes it a heck of a deal in my book. I don't have a problem using mine for dialog. I save the Schoeps for acoustic music where it really shines, unless I get a client who is willing to pay for the best. Still waiting for *that* to happen. Sigh...
 
Love the Schoeps CMC-641 but on every documentary I shoot on in the jungle, the South or really humid climates, the CMC-641 famously doesn't handle it well. Shot two weeks in Brazil last year and the sound mixer kept having to switch out his CMC-641 as it was really humid and the Schoeps doesn't handle humidity well.
 
I run several kits with 416's and several 8060's.... and for indoors use 8050... simply delightful (i bought recently) but also get the pad / roll off attachment it will be worth it.
I was going to buy the MKH50 but being a different physical size would have had to then also need to replace all my mountings.

I have not tried the Schoeps tho. As where I live I have good access to the Senni dealer.
 
Schoeps and humidity:
I haven't used mine in Brazil, but I have in late-summer New Orleans, Florida, and various other high-humidity (for the US) environments. Haven't had a problem... What I was told by some other mixers, and the practice I follow, is that if you keep the threads that connect the capsule and the preamp, as well as the XLR contacts really clean and dry, you won't have a problem. That's been my experience. But maybe there's some variance with humidity resistance in different Schoeps models (ie- perhaps the CMC5 preamp is better or worse at this). But since Joshua is in the Sennheiser camp, no really need jump to Schoeps.

Oz's comments about perhaps sticking with 8000-series mics over the MKH50 to maintain compatibility with mounts and stuff is good. Also, I'm not a super fan of the MKH50. I find the low end response that some people really like to just get in the way. And I find the pickup pattern more narrow and the shoulders more abrupt than I like. With the Schoeps, I can more easily split the mic between two people, have a bit of a cushion for an interviewee who keeps moving, and more easily follow improvising/"we don't need rehearsals" scenes in fiction narrative. And I think it's easier to boom with a Schoeps; more room for my own mistakes. THAT ALL SAID, clearly lots of people like the MKH50 and produce great tracks with it.

And again (semi-sorry I'm being redundant :smile: ) if you are considering the Sennheiser 8050, also check out the 8040. I've used both (but own neither) and prefer the pickup pattern of the 8040... Probably because it's more Schoeps like... but at least some other mixers agree.

So for you I'd look at (and actually test to see what best fits the sound, work style, and compatibility you want), in order:

8040
8050
Audio-Technica AT4053 (mid-priced option)
Audix SCX1-HC (about the same price as the AT)
MKH50 (great mic; not my choice)

OK I'll stop beating this horse...

Jim
PS- Schoeps > Sennheiser
PPS- Just kidding
PPPS- Sort of :-)
 
Just chiming in here to say that I absolutely love my Sennheiser MKH 50 for indoor boom dialogue. Haven't used any of the other microphones discussed in this thread, though, so I can't offer a comparison.
 
Thanks a lot for the replies everyone. That helps a lot. I like the thought of sticking with the MKH line, although pricing hurts haha. But hey, I already went down that road with the 8060's, so I know their worth.

Can someone give me a better idea of the difference between the 8040 and 8050? And what exactly is their difference compared to the MKH 50? Thanks in advance.
 
So thanks to all the help here, I've decided I'm going to definitely spring for either two 8040s or two 8050s. Before I pick which one, I wanted to ask one last thing. I'm really leaning toward grabbing a matched 8040 set because I'm planning to get two mics either way for the sit-down interviews I do indoors, just like I do with the 8060s outdoors. Getting a matched set seems appealing to me for this reason. I didn't mention this earlier, but my company annually gets hired out to film TEDx events. I was planning on getting two floor mics this year to put on stage facing the crowd so I can get claps, oohs and ahhs and things of that nature. I like the thought of getting a matched set of 8040s to use for both sit-down interviews as well as my floor mics for TEDx shoots. That being said, I'm curious if the pickup pattern is going to be too wide for indoor dialogue for the sit-down interviews. Do you guys find that this is an issue, or will the 8040s have enough reach for the sit-downs?
 
I don't have tons of experience with the 8040, though I did demo one IRL. I think briefly to my ears:

8040 pattern is kinda like Schoeps MK41 (nicely wide).

8050 is kinda like MKH50 (more narrow).

I think the 40 will be advantageous if you have fidgety interview subjects, or need to unexpectedly split one mic between two people. But really both 50s and 40s can work for interviews.

I don't know enough about mic'ing stages to comment intelligently about what'd make a good floor mic.

But you know, I'm rather sure that the 8000 series of mics is fairly price controlled. IOW, a big box store won't sell the mics at a lower price than specialty location-audio dealers or local comprehensive dealers. And the specialty and local dealers can, in my experience, provide better pre-sales information AND are likely to let you demo both an 8040 and 8050 mic (or rent at reasonable price with rental then applied towards purchase). Maybe get each of those mics on loan/rental (or even buy & return), and see which works best for you and your team when rolling interviews. Of course, try a few different interview situations; small office, big hard-surface room, somewhere with more BG room than you'd like, splitting between two people, etc. And if you can somehow fake the floor-mic use, all the better.

In each setup, record say 60-secs of someone talking at various uncontrolled levels, moving their head & upper body around more than you'd like, and colleagues making noises in the background. Then listen to those tracks in your edit suite and also on whatever ever devices you think the final audience will use to hear the tracks.

Ya, this sounds like a lot of work, but considering you don't need a camera for more than a reference of location and movement (ie- you really don't need to light), you could knock all this out in a couple hours. Ya, that's a chunk of time but considering the amount of money you're getting ready to spend, and especially the number of years you'll be working with the mics, you want to make sure you like --and don't just tolerate-- the mics you choose.

Let us know how it goes!
 
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