Inception

Lammy said:
I love this film!

Pretty awesome. I love love loved Arthur's fight scene in the hotel hall way!

And it's pretty clear to me that the entire film is NOT a dream. The ending is he gets back to his kids. He doesn't want to be in a dream, hence why he tells Mal she is merely a shade and not the real thing.

If you want to believe the film is about a very tragic guy that gets further and further away from reality and accepts a lie then fair enough - but that's not what the film is about. Sure there's a few red herrings at the start, when he's talking to Mal as he tries to steal info from Watanabe, the surreal nature he travels around Europe and south america etc, but that's just there to titalise you.

Wonderful filmmaking on every level.

Also, for those who aren't regular eads of American Cinematographer, here's the Inception article again: http://www.theasc.com/ac_magazine/July2010/Inception/page1.php#
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Maybe you need another viewing as you missed the end of the film. The spinning top is there to make you question whether anything is real or not. You may think it was clear, but throughout this thread there are MANY different theories as to what was happening and certain resolutions to scenes were vague to me on purpose to cause this thinking.

If you want to believe the film is about a very tragic guy that gets his kids back then fair enough - but that's not what the film is about.

:)
 
sounds like you both need another viewing :grin:

Because to me this is a more Greener Eerth friendly version of the Matrix.

Kinda like one those PB short movies on vimeo !


WB and Legendaray should give me my share for telling peoples they need another viewing !
 
Hahah :)

I'm just playing devil's advocate on that response. I honestly can't say for sure what I believe happened as some of it was vague, and I loved that about it.

And I can say, it is not as vague as some of David Lynch's films which I love, but to this day I am still trying to figure out. :)
 
grimepoch said:
Maybe you need another viewing as you missed the end of the film. The spinning top is there to make you question whether anything is real or not.
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OH MAH GOD, REALLY?! OH NOO I NEED TO WATCH IT AGAAAIN COZ I MISSED THAT REALLY LONG ENDING SHOT KLOLOL!!! :P

The spinning top is indeed to question the audience, yes, but not Cobb. Because it doesn't matter. His emotional journey is complete, he's won his subconcious over his guilt with Mal and he finally gets back to his kids. The totem isn't even his, it's Mal's locked up totem. Cobb's totem is his kids. And he now can see their faces, and he knows he isn't dreaming.

If you want to believe the film is about a very tragic guy that gets his kids back then fair enough - but that's not what the film is about.

:)
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Well that's just being facitious...
 
Lammy said:
Cobb's totem is his kids. And he now can see their faces, and he knows he isn't dreaming.
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That doesn't make sense. The whole point of the totems is that only the owner would know the characteristics of that object. They can't possibly be his kids, because Cobb's father, or anyone who has ever met his kids, would know those characteristics. It also doesn't make a difference if the top was formerly Mal's. Once Cobb has it, he understands those characteristics, but not anyone else (of course he knew them before, but that's another thing altogether).

I did find it odd that the totem was a top, however. Everyone else's totems had unusual characteristics that only they knew. Arthurs weighted die, so people creating a dream would just think it was a normal die. Adriadne had her chess piece, only part was carved out, so only she would know the weight and feel. Cobb's wasn't an unusual top that happened to be weighted and wouldn't properly spin, it was just a top. Everyone knows how a top spins, wobbles, and falls (they don't continue spinning), so they could use that typical characteristic in their dream, and it would be just the same. If the top didn't spin properly in the real world, that would make sense, as it wouldn't be just like a normal top...but that's apparently not the case--at least from what I saw.
 
I like Lammy's take on it, and I didn't say anything, but he can see the kids before the end: don't forget, they turn around during the final moments with Mol in the apartment. But, Cobb turns his head away before getting a full glimpse.

At this point, and if you've studied new age dream theory then you know, Cobb's merely beginning to control all aspects of his subconscious in a dream state. He can literally turn the heads of his children and see them.

The only indicator that the ending is not a dream are the kids shoes, as everything else about this moment is suspiciously artificial: even the Grandfather is wearing the same clothes as before.
 
Kholi said:
I like Lammy's take on it, and I didn't say anything, but he can see the kids before the end: don't forget, they turn around during the final moments with Mol in the apartment. But, Cobb turns his head away before getting a full glimpse.

At this point, and if you've studied new age dream theory then you know, Cobb's merely beginning to control all aspects of his subconscious in a dream state. He can literally turn the heads of his children and see them.

The only indicator that the ending is not a dream are the kids shoes, as everything else about this moment is suspiciously artificial: even the Grandfather is wearing the same clothes as before.
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I know you've seen it more than me, so I cannot remember specifically, but aren't the kids doing the same thing they were doing earlier in his dreams at the end, only they turn around as well (other then their differences)? I wondered if his father was in on it as he'd know the kids. And was grandma there? I don't remember seeing her. It felt like another manifestation of Cobb's to me. Also, wasn't the father who taught Cobb, so with Cobb's abilities, you'd think the father should be pretty amazing as well.

Man, I'd really love to see a follow up movie where Mal isn't dead and just let this thing get crazier! :) I love that Nolan left his options open if he wants to continue and actually make a really good sequel for it (unlike what happened in the Matrix).
 
grimepoch said:
I know you've seen it more than me, so I cannot remember specifically, but aren't the kids doing the same thing they were doing earlier in his dreams at the end, only they turn around as well (other then their differences)? I wondered if his father was in on it as he'd know the kids. And was grandma there? I don't remember seeing her. It felt like another manifestation of Cobb's to me. Also, wasn't the father who taught Cobb, so with Cobb's abilities, you'd think the father should be pretty amazing as well.
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In almost every moment the children are shown, aside from ONE, they are wearing the same clothes and repeating the same actions. At the end, they're both out in the grass playing still, and they turn their heads.

Right before this, or the scene when you see them one last time before the end of the movie, Mol turns and calls the children when they're in their high-rise home and they turn their heads. Cobb, however, turns HIS head before they do and refuses to believe what's transpiring.

As far as the Grandfather being in on it, there isn't enough information to allude to that being something the writers wanted to explore. He's still a world character, someone to flesh out the story.

Man, I'd really love to see a follow up movie where Mal isn't dead and just let this thing get crazier! :) I love that Nolan left his options open if he wants to continue and actually make a really good sequel for it (unlike what happened in the Matrix).
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Actually, Nolan is not a fan of sequels, at all. I think they simply chose to leave it open ended for the fact that the ending does not matter (from the perspective of the audience, who's eye is Cobb's for the most part). At this point, Cobb has managed to separate himself from a destructive portion of his subconscious--personified by Mol--and he's saved the life of his new friend.

His reward, no matter how it's achieved, is to spend the rest of his life without regret. One way or another, even if he's now able to create a false reality with his children, he gets what he wants.

There is room for interpretation on if it is real or not, there is no room left for deciding if he has achieved his goal, one way or another.
 
Kholi said:
I]

There is room for interpretation on if it is real or not, there is no room left for deciding if he has achieved his goal, one way or another.
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That's true. Whether real or not, I can see that Cobb's ultimate goal was met at least at that point in time at the end of the film. I thought his expressions in the plane near the end were great as he was pretty confused at exactly what has/was happening. Unlike other scenes were they seemed to know pretty well when they came out.

I'm gonna have to get this one bluray when it comes out so I can watch more closely the end! :)
 
Kholi said:
I like Lammy's take on it, and I didn't say anything, but he can see the kids before the end: don't forget, they turn around during the final moments with Mol in the apartment. But, Cobb turns his head away before getting a full glimpse.

At this point, and if you've studied new age dream theory then you know, Cobb's merely beginning to control all aspects of his subconscious in a dream state. He can literally turn the heads of his children and see them.

The only indicator that the ending is not a dream are the kids shoes, as everything else about this moment is suspiciously artificial: even the Grandfather is wearing the same clothes as before.
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not just the shoes Kholi .
The girls dress is different as well same color but very different.
 
Everts said:
not just the shoes Kholi .
The girls dress is different as well same color but very different.
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Even I didn't catch that one. I'll look for it tomorrow/tonight when I head to the next viewing.

Can't wait for the Blu Ray, man. I hope it's three hours or more long!
 
The part where Cobb meeds the Forger feels like a dream to me
Different continent, people still chasing after Cobb ....maybe far fetched but if that's true then the whole film is a dream ...and Cobb was in Limbo all the time .

and if the whole story is taking place in a dream then who are or what do the teammembers mean to Cobb ?
 
Hell, if it's all a dream, who's to say Cobb is even a dream thief? The technology may not even exist in reality.
 
Kholi said:
Even I didn't catch that one. I'll look for it tomorrow/tonight when I head to the next viewing.

Can't wait for the Blu Ray, man. I hope it's three hours or more long!
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The kids are different at the end, different shoes, different clothes, and they are a few years older looking too :)

dust'n the callipygous said:
That doesn't make sense. The whole point of the totems is that only the owner would know the characteristics of that object. They can't possibly be his kids, because Cobb's father, or anyone who has ever met his kids, would know those characteristics. It also doesn't make a difference if the top was formerly Mal's. Once Cobb has it, he understands those characteristics, but not anyone else (of course he knew them before, but that's another thing altogether).

I did find it odd that the totem was a top, however. Everyone else's totems had unusual characteristics that only they knew. Arthurs weighted die, so people creating a dream would just think it was a normal die. Adriadne had her chess piece, only part was carved out, so only she would know the weight and feel. Cobb's wasn't an unusual top that happened to be weighted and wouldn't properly spin, it was just a top. Everyone knows how a top spins, wobbles, and falls (they don't continue spinning), so they could use that typical characteristic in their dream, and it would be just the same. If the top didn't spin properly in the real world, that would make sense, as it wouldn't be just like a normal top...but that's apparently not the case--at least from what I saw.
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I thought this was very clear in the movie...

The totem only tells you that you're not in someone else's dream, because other people wont know how your totem should act. ie: we don't know what number Arthur's should fall on, we don't know that Adriane's chess piece would sit back up.

It's important to know that the totem wont tell you if you're in your own dream. Because you know what it is supposed to do. Hence why Cobb doesn't want to look at his own kids incase he is wrong and Mal's right. It wont prove anything, it will just tempt him to stay in a false reality.

Yes, it's odd that Mal's totem doesn't seem to have a unique characteristic (we know it falls, or keeps spinning) but that's the whole point- I don't think the audience or Cobb know at all. It might actually have a unique feature like a specific kind of noise when spun. The point is it doesn't matter anyway...
 
Kholi said:
Even I didn't catch that one. I'll look for it tomorrow/tonight when I head to the next viewing.

Can't wait for the Blu Ray, man. I hope it's three hours or more long!
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Sadly Nolan also doesn't like shooting stuff and cutting it :(

There wasn't a single scene in TDK that was shot and cut, only alternate/longer takes.
 
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