In need of Sony cameras model comparison information, ramblings follow....

Hello everyone. Wow, this thread really grew some long legs in my absence!

Back to one of the original points to which Doug was responding (thanks Doug) - I was looking for any document(s) or source of information that would pull together the features of the small Sony camcorders, side-by-side, or at least with the information formatted in a way that enabled a side by side comparison.

You may be wondering why I am looking for information aligned around this particular lineup.... We are going to deploy these cameras for only 2 specific and very repetitive applications inside a key news gathering location - 1. network live shots, 2. chase assignments - this is mobile news gathering, monopod and LiveU transmitter (think stakeouts, door-stopping in Oz terminology). There are up to 8 or 10 of us that will rotate thru these gear sets, and I cannot know everyone's level of skill and comfort with different manufacturer's cameras, but everyone has history with my XD-Cam lineup, so it makes perfect sense to stick with a basic layout that requires no significant new learning.

I am not going to have access to any of the cameras that might be candidates in our specific application here. As I get older, I do get excited about the idea of hauling around gear that is MUCH lighter than what we're accustomed to (if you have had an XD-Cam F800 on your shoulder with external monitor and 23x B4 lens, toplight, and 190 WH battery, you'll know what I am talking about. There's probably a flow-on effect with a possible lighter tripod too (I'm not yet able to determine if there's a much lighter version of the Sachtler hotpod*, but I digress... and I don't think that there is). Thru the years, I have kept making trips back to the work bench, all the with the end goal of making our gear as simple and as portable as possible (I like to put repeated cable layouts under one outer jacket as an example).

The ideal camera (from Sony) will be capable of 1080i (p is irrelevant), have a degree of zoom control that is workable for live-to-air adjustments (directors seem to love to wait until we're ON air before they announce the request), minimal power draw (if we get near-to/below 20 watts I will be excited), and ideally would be able to produce 2 HD-SDI outputs (I have a custom modification in the likely event that the chassis has one only), and XLR jacks for audio. We do not need 4K, HDMI, or more than 2 audio inputs. On audio - I did see one camcorder feature pop up somewhere - some sort of hotshoe that provided receiver power AND audio pass thru (seriously.... can we trust that? Wow). If the monitor is poor, we can attach a 7" outboard unit for the tripod-based positions. (We normally have one for us, and another for visiting correspondents).

All this work goes straight to air, or potentially so (90% is on air while we are shooting). So we can dispense with any thinking about gamuts, log this-or-that. I have no experience with Sony's capabilities in auto focusing, but someone might have a reveal in that area.... I won't know until we try if it is something applicable here, or not. I have however learned from others that it is indispensable when a throng forms around a news maker, and the only space left to get a shot is UP. (there's that weight thing again. Easy to do if it's a small cam on a monopod).

Doug is about to chime in (I think) and tell me I am overthinking this. In the end, it's all perspective-based. I have done well by tweaking gear carefully over the years. This is very unfamiliar territory for me!

Grant

(* I have found the Sachtler CF hotpod to be essential to our stationary live shot work. There's no other support that makes a sudden height adjustment (within seconds) because the 5' 6" guest you thought was coming to camera turns out to be 6' 6" member of Congress! We will have people jump in front of camera aprox 15 seconds before air - with IFB and mic connections to be made. So much fun!)
 
There are some cameras that are targeted for news gathering that have built in streaming, sdi, and can record in multiple formats at once. The application you describe the easy and speed of workflow will be most important. JVC sells a broadcaster line GY-HC550 https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...broadcast.html It's more expensive because it has built in streaming capability. The main downside of this and other cameras is the old contrast detect auto focus system. I think Canon is the only camcorder with decent AF.

My only complaint with working with Sony cameras in the past they have required a special software to import video from the camera. Where as for my Panasonic and JVC I can copy the files straight off the card. Maybe this is no longer the case... No matter what brand of camera it would be ideal if you rented it for a week to see for yourself whether you like the workflow and design of the camera.
 
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Peter C. said:
I think Canon is the only camcorder with decent AF..
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I would completely disagree with that. Have you tried the Sony Z90 or NX80? They have amazing phase detect AF that can keep up with any type of shooting situation. Also, even the Z280 has great face detect AF and is on par with Canons I've shot with. I’ve done side-by-side testing between the Z280 and XF705 and the AF performance was nearly identical. Sometimes one might be a little faster to keep up than the other, butit was split about equal between them. And when it came to face detect, they are both nearly flawless. When was the last time you used AF on a Sony camcorder? Which one? And compared to which Canon?

Peter C. said:
My only complaint with working with Sony cameras in the past they have required a special software to import video from the camera.
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I’m not sure where you got this misinformation, but it is completely false. All of the Sony codecs from all of their cameras are 100% compatible with all the major NLEs and can be ingested straight into editing or grading with no extra steps in post. This has been the case going all the way back to the EX1 in 2007. Yes, Sony has a very powerful free utility program called Catalyst Browse (Content Browser before that) that can come in very handy for reviewing clips, organizing, checking metadata, etc. but it's use is completely optional. It’s there if someone wants to use it, but I’ll bet most Sony owners don’t even know it exists and its use is certainly not “required”. Far from it.

Peter, I know you are an experience professional and have made a lot of helpful posts, but you should be more careful about spreading misinformation about stuff that goes outside your hands-on experience. It seems like you're just throwing out gut feelings about the Sony camera as if they were facts.
 
Grant Peacock said:
Hello everyone. Wow, this thread really grew some long legs in my absence!

Back to one of the original points to which Doug was responding (thanks Doug) - I was looking for any document(s) or source of information that would pull together the features of the small Sony camcorders, side-by-side, or at least with the information formatted in a way that enabled a side by side comparison.
Click to expand...

I'll post something later in the day when I have more time.
 
Doug Jensen said:
I would completely disagree with that. Have you tried the Sony Z90 or NX80? They have amazing phase detect AF that can keep up with any type of shooting situation. Also, even the Z280 has great face detect AF and is on par with Canons I've shot with. I’ve done side-by-side testing between the Z280 and XF705 and the AF performance was nearly identical. Sometimes one might be a little faster to keep up than the other, butit was split about equal between them. And when it came to face detect, they are both nearly flawless. When was the last time you used AF on a Sony camcorder? Which one? And compared to which Canon?



I’m not sure where you got this misinformation, but it is completely false. All of the Sony codecs from all of their cameras are 100% compatible with all the major NLEs and can be ingested straight into editing or grading with no extra steps in post. This has been the case going all the way back to the EX1 in 2007. Yes, Sony has a very powerful free utility program called Catalyst Browse (Content Browser before that) that can come in very handy for reviewing clips, organizing, checking metadata, etc. but it's use is completely optional. It’s there if someone wants to use it, but I’ll bet most Sony owners don’t even know it exists and its use is certainly not “required”. Far from it.

Peter, I know you are an experience professional and have made a lot of helpful posts, but you should be more careful about spreading misinformation about stuff that goes outside your hands-on experience. It seems like you're just throwing out gut feelings about the Sony camera as if they were facts.
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Like I said I have owned Sony camcorders in the past that have required software to import. Some cameras (not only Sony) would split a long video clips into multiple files and you would need to use their software to stitch together without introducing small gaps. Like I said I don't currently own a Sony camcorder.

In regards to AF I have watched many reviews saying that even when a camera has face detect that doesn't mean the AF is reliable. For example the JVC camera I referred to has face detect but still uses the old contrast detect, the camera will recognize the face and put a box around it but still will hunt and pulse. Broadly I would say that camcorder AF performance is far behind Sony and Canon's mirrorless cameras.

I still think its a good idea to rent or borrow a camera before purchasing because real world performance can differ. Manufactures have all sorts of caveats that aren't apparent until you use the camera.

Its not possible for me know the capability of every model of camcorder. I'm not trying mislead anyone or have any hidden agenda.
 
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Peter C. said:
Its not possible for me know the capability of every model of camcorder. I'm not trying mislead anyone or have any hidden agenda.
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I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought you were doing anything underhanded. I know that is not your intention. But the forums are full of people repeating stuff they "heard" or mistaken assumptions they make based on faulty information or lack of experience with whatever gear they are talking about. When in doubt I try to say nothing at all. You are wrong on two very fundamental things you posted right on this page. You will never hear me comment on RED, JVC, Arri, or any other camera I haven't used myself or investigated deeply into the manufacturer's documentation. I'm just suggesting that we all need to be careful about what we post because we can do more more harm than good when we drift out of our lane.
 
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Grant Peacock said:
Hello everyone. Wow, this thread really grew some long legs in my absence!
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And if gets even longer. :)

Thanks for taking me up on my challenge. No, I’m not going tell you that you are overthinking this. All your “wishes” are perfectly valid and there are a lot of cool things today’s cameras offer than you are not even aware of. To be honest, after I read your latest post, it didn’t take much thinking or effort on my part to know which camera would be best for you . . . drum roll . . . the Z280. The only reason not to go with the Z280 is if it is out of your budget. If that was the case, you could drop down to the Z150, but you’d be giving up quite a bit in terms of features and performance. The Z280 is well worth the extra cost. It is basically a FS7 with smaller sensors and a fixed 17x f/1.9 lens. And it is also the baby brother to my Z750 with almost all of the same codecs, features, functions, etc. at about 1/10 the price (when you factor in a lens, and VF for the Z750) and at a fraction of the weight and size.

I’ll address the things you mentioned that were important to you, and few things you didn’t mention that you’re going to want to factor into your decision making.

1080i / 59.94
Yes. Internal recording and SDI and HDMI output all simultaneously. Many different Intra-frame and LongGOP codecs to choose from, including the de facto broadcast industry standard: XDCAM HD422. You can choose codecs that are 10-bit, 8-bit, 4:2:2, 4:2:0, and with various degrees of compression to fit your needs. You’ll even have progressive codec options for when you are ready to finally dump interlaced. All of the codecs are 100% compatible and easy to edit in all of the major NLEs.

HD FORMATS
Yes. But you’ll also have 4K in your back pocket should you need it in the future.

SDI OUTPUT
Yes. 3G for HD and 12G for 4K. I’m not sure why you want two SDI connectors, but you’re not going to find any camera at this level that will have two. You’ll also have an HDMI connector that can probably do whatever you wanted to do with the other SDI connector, such as feeding a monitor or something like that. Both can be used at the same time for HD output. You can even choose to superimpose viewfinder data over one and not the other.

OTHER IN/ OUT CONNECTORS
Industry-standard 12v DC Input
Genlock
LANC Control
Two XLR connectors

AUDIO
Four channels of 24-bit 48 kHz audio.

EXTERNAL CONTROLS
The Z280 is layed out very similar to traditional shoulder-mount ENG cameras with all the standard external controls you’d expect to find – and located where you expect them to be. Including WB Set, WB A/B/Preset toggle, Gain Toggle, ND filters, all necessary audio switches and dials for CH1 and CH2, headphone volume, shotgun mount, built-in stereo mic, 2 XLRs, etc.

MULTI-INTERFACE SHOES
There are two MI-Shoes on the handle that allow the use of wireless audio receivers, shotgun mics, or for adding two extra XLR jacks. Sony audio devices send audio to the camera, get power from the camera, and communicate with the camera without any wires or extra batteries. Single channel and dual channel receivers are available. In other words, you can receive two transmitters with one receiver. Audio through the MI-Shoe with Sony receivers is so foolproof you can normally just put audio on automatic level control and let the camera handle it for you. The MI-Shoes can also be used to mount, power, and control on/off certain LED lights. Only one of the shoes can be used for audio at a time.

MEMORY CARDS
SxS cards are the native media, but if you want to save money, you could use SDXC cards in cheap adapters. SDXC cards are approved for all of the HD formats, and even some of the 4K formats.

SIZE AND WEIGHT.
6.6 lbs. fully loaded
Bsically the same size as the old EX1, PMW-200, and Canon XF705. Only slightly larger than Canon XF605.

POWER CONSUMPTION
24W and powered by small lightweight BP-U series batteries that have been around for 15 years.
External power input is just the normal industry-standard 12v.

LENS
17x f/1.9 lens with servo zoom and very good image stabilization. Unlike the Canon XF605/705, which ramp from f/2.8-f/4.5, the exposure on the Z280 stays consistent at f/1.9 through the zoom range. Focus and zoom can be controlled remotely via LANC or wireless app.

VARIABLE ELECTRONIC ND.
An exclusive feature of Sony cameras. Can be used two ways:
  1. Preset Mode. Similar to a traditional ND filter wheel with three presets (2-stops, 4-stops. 6-stops). However, unlike a traditional wheel, the default values can be re-programmed by the operator from 2 to 7 stops.
  2. Variable Mode. In this mode the ND filter can be adjusted in infinite steps from 2-7 stops like the dimmer on an LED light. This allows you to choose the aperture you want, and then dial in just enough ND to get the exposure right. 90% of exposure adjustments on cameras with electronic Variable ND are now done simply by turning the ND filter wheel. It is revolutionary technology that will make you not want to use any camera ever again that doesn’t have it.
LCD and VF
Beautiful flip-out 3.5” LCD screen and high-res OLED viewfinder with diopter that must be seen to be appreciated. There is no reason to mount a 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] party monitor onboard the camera.

PEAKING and ZEBRAS
Very sophisticated and accurate edge-enhance peaking like that found on high-end ENG camera viewfinders. There’s an option for colored peaking too, but why would anyone want it? Also, has nice unobtrusive fine zebra lines that can be programmed in 1% steps from 0 to 109%.

MENU LOCK
You can create a custom User Menu with all of your most frequently changes settings all in one place. And then you can take it one more step by locking other people out of all the other menus on the camera. This is great for keeping inexperienced operators from changing stuff they have no business changing.

PERSONAL ALL FILES
Everyone in your organization could have their own personal ALL file stored on a cheap utility SD card, so that whenever they pick up a camera, they can load all of their own personal custom settings into the camera in about 5 seconds. The Z280 has a third card slot just for holding the utility card so it can remain onboard the camera 100% of the time. Or people could just keep a card in their wallet.

PAINT MENUS
The Z280 comes complete with all the high-end paint menus found on their other ENG cameras so that a very nice WYSIWG image (looking however YOU want) can be dialed in and shared between all the cameras in your fleet. Set it and forget it. Can save multiple Scene Files for different shooting situations, if you choose.

PICTURE CACHE
Up to 28 seconds (less if you choose) of buffered audio and video for times when it is difficult to know when to start recording.

AUTO-FOCUS
Excellent AF capability with tons of customization options. Face Detect tracking is nearly flawless, even when people are coming straight at the camera. When there are multiple faces in the frame, the operator can designate which face should get priority (CEO, candidate, perp, etc.) and the camera will remember that face if it leaves frame and comes back again.

LOW-LIGHT SENSITIVITY
No other camera in this class is better in low-light. 2-3 stops faster than similar Canon cameras.

DIGITAL EXTENDER
Engage a 2X digital extender at the touch of a button with no loss of light. Turns the 17x f/1.9 lens into a 34x f/1.9 lens. Can be turned on/off even while recording.

USER BOX
This is handy feature to create custom overlays (of any shape and size) to block off zones for lower thirds and/or other graphics. Really helps with consistent composition among photogs.

LIVE STREAMING
Can be configured for send out a live streaming signal via Wi-Fi or cellular. Can also be set to automatically transmit clips to a remote serve as soon as each one is recorded. I don’t use these features myself, so can’t really go into further detail,

LAST CLIP DELETE
The talent flubbed their line? No problem. Just press Last Clip Delete and erase if from the memory card like it never happened, thus saving space on the card and ingest time later.

CUSTOM CLIP NAMING – plus show the file name in the viewfinder
Create your own clip naming system onboard the camera with up to 44 alphanumeric characters. You can even display the clip name in the viewfinder in case someone wants to take notes of best takes, sound bites, etc. Beats the old way of using TC numbers and really speeds up the ediitng process when you can zero in on the exact clip you want.

For a tripod, I’d highly recommend a Sachtler Aktive6 head with Flowtech75 legs. It you liked a Hotpod you will all in love with the Sachtler Aktiv / Flowtech systems. There's nothing else like them on the market.

I think that covers your wish list, and then some. Let me know if you have more questions.

You may also want to watch this video:
https://youtu.be/R4YNDlLtuMk
 
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Hi Doug and all,

No decision as of yet. On the tripod - I did check out Sachtler's latest offering, and I can say that there is no replacement for the Hotpod yet - not in our application. (We have a camera all loaded up with live cables, and the smooth pedestal up and down is a unique requirement for sudden changes in 'altitude'). I would love to see a lighter version of this tripod, but last time I checked, Sachtler no longer even supported this one with spare parts. So - new version is not likely. (imagine a hotpod engineered to work with weight limits of 3-5 lbs, and how light it could be as a result).

Grant.

PS : I make a mental note to self - any company that self-identifies as no longer willing to supply parts for their older gear, is one I try to avoid doing business with in the future. They have revealed their hand...
 
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