Improving color gradients and static noise!

Adventsam said:
gorgeous, LOL, honestly though we are seeing real quality with the GH1 AVC, my only request would be CBR rather than VBR though, then we could step up a gear, 40mb/sec CBR 25/24P would be incredible.

Note: have got my eye almost pressed to my plasma and my HD screen laptop and the IQ is incredible, it really looks top notch HD. Vitaliy has set the bar very high for Panasonic GH2.
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What happens if you decrease the GOP?
 
PappasArts said:
Dithering slightly is also a way to handle gradient banding. Either in post or in camera by shooting at 160 or 320iso. With the new AVCHD, the one thing you notice is the GH1's noise used to look like clumps of mud when increasing ISO; now the noise with higher ISO's is recorded as noise that is more grain like then mud clumps of the old AVCHD.
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Something I've been meaning to throw out there: pay attention to the noise reduction setting. I haven't tested this yet, but I think that it'll actually do something now! Before, it really didn't seem to matter much (in video mode), but I think that's because the codec would mush all the noise together in its "mud" anyway. But now that the codec is so much more robust, I would guess that you'll see a much bigger difference between -2 and +2 in noise reduction. Just another thing to test.
 
Barry_Green said:
Something I've been meaning to throw out there: pay attention to the noise reduction setting. I haven't tested this yet, but I think that it'll actually do something now! Before, it really didn't seem to matter much (in video mode), but I think that's because the codec would mush all the noise together in its "mud" anyway. But now that the codec is so much more robust, I would guess that you'll see a much bigger difference between -2 and +2 in noise reduction. Just another thing to test.
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Interesting- Cause of this new level of quality, all things need to be evaluated on this camera again.
 
PappasArts said:
Interesting- Cause of this new level of quality, all things need to be evaluated on this camera again.
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Yep, it's a whole new ballgame. I think Intelligent Exposure needs to be re-examined, and noise reduction too. Both of those could have been seriously influenced by the codec before, but now that the codec is actually recording what the sensor's giving it, I think we might see a big difference now. Or, well, a bigger difference, at least...
 
... and, Mike, thanks for all the effort you're putting into this. We, as a forum and a community of users, appreciate all the efforts that are being made. I know how much work goes into endlessly testing and tweaking and testing again, and on behalf of the forum and the users, I wanted to let you, and Hunter, and jobless, and nurbs, and everyone else know that we really appreciate all the hard work!
 
Barry_Green said:
Something I've been meaning to throw out there: pay attention to the noise reduction setting. I haven't tested this yet, but I think that it'll actually do something now! Before, it really didn't seem to matter much (in video mode), but I think that's because the codec would mush all the noise together in its "mud" anyway. But now that the codec is so much more robust, I would guess that you'll see a much bigger difference between -2 and +2 in noise reduction. Just another thing to test.
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I will do some tests on a blank, somewhat underexposed (but not so much to cause banding) in a little bit...will mess around with sharpening settings too. Will post results here. Gotta run some errands first though :)
 
rawdod said:
I wish we could replace the codec with the code from x264, which is better than many commercial coders, how impossibly hard this might be I don't even fathom, even with hardware encoding many routines could still be tweakable, but finding them and changing them in the way we are changing values now in the firmware...
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If and when HDMI Out works, you could just capture and encode with x264 on a laptop.
 
Barry_Green said:
Yep, it's a whole new ballgame. I think Intelligent Exposure needs to be re-examined, and noise reduction too. Both of those could have been seriously influenced by the codec before, but now that the codec is actually recording what the sensor's giving it, I think we might see a big difference now. Or, well, a bigger difference, at least...
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Intelligent Exposure- Left that long ago, and now, it just might offer something we can use...Crazy ! As the bitrate possibly improves, this just can get even better. I need to look at all the
features again like the film modes- they may have a different affect within the camera/codec too.



Barry_Green said:
... and, Mike, thanks for all the effort you're putting into this. We, as a forum and a community of users, appreciate all the efforts that are being made. I know how much work goes into endlessly testing and tweaking and testing again, and on behalf of the forum and the users, I wanted to let you, and Hunter, and jobless, and nurbs, and everyone else know that we really appreciate all the hard work!
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Thanks Barry- It's just awesome to be part of it. A community effort of equally mined people all driving in the same direction more or less. This is one of those reasons that the internet shines. A global effort at hand, to better a single camera. I'm amazed by it....
 
Adventsam said:
Press menu, camera icon at top, goto pg4, drop down 1, colourspace , SRGB or AdobeRGB, click on it, AdobeRGB?

Cheers
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You have to be out of Creative Motion Picture Mode. Switch MODE to CUSTOM, Then to MANUAL, Then press MENU. Now the Camera Icon has 4 pages instead of 2. Somehow switching from CMPM to M still kept it in Motion Picture Mode.
 
Ben_B said:
I will do some tests on a blank, somewhat underexposed (but not so much to cause banding) in a little bit...will mess around with sharpening settings too. Will post results here. Gotta run some errands first though :)
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Will be posting this in a new thread when I finish working on it.
 
Should be done within the hour. Tested all possible combinations of sharpness and NR (ignoring +1/-1, just did 0 and 2/-2) at ISO 200 and ISO 800. Set to Standard with Contrast -2, AVCHD 24p, PTool bitrate settings C, Sat 0. Pulldown removed in compressor, footage converted to ProRes 422, auto gamma correction off.
 
PappasArts said:
... A community effort of equally mined people all driving in the same direction more or less. This is one of those reasons that the internet shines. A global effort at hand, to better a single camera. I'm amazed by it....
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GH-13 .... the revolution of digital cinema

GH-13 .... the apocalypse of happy marriages :banned:
 
alignment1 said:
GH-13 .... the revolution of digital cinema

GH-13 .... the apocalypse of happy marriages :banned:
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LOL.......


Just a note- Did gradient tests tonight. The GH1's clean sensor at low ISO's + 8bit codec makes for banding issues on certain shots- However at 320ISO which is super clean in the GH1 introduces enough low level noise to dither that out for the most part.

Pappas
 
PappasArts said:
LOL.......


Just a note- Did gradient tests tonight. The GH1's clean sensor at low ISO's + 8bit codec makes for banding issues on certain shots- However at 320ISO which is super clean in the GH1 introduces enough low level noise to dither that out for the most part.

Pappas
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Interesting. So are you suggesting we shoot at 320ISO for everything, or just shots that could introduce the banding? And what were your firmware settings on this test?
 
PappasArts said:
LOL.......


Just a note- Did gradient tests tonight. The GH1's clean sensor at low ISO's + 8bit codec makes for banding issues on certain shots- However at 320ISO which is super clean in the GH1 introduces enough low level noise to dither that out for the most part.

Pappas
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Found this out early yesterday.

320 and 400ISO = it.

Below 320 and 400 the image starts to get a bit smooshy, but nothing too terrible.

So in that range, it actually looks pretty great. The problem with that?

Gotta invest in a new IR ND 2 to go with the 1.2 + Pola stack. LOL

Oddly enough, this is also why I shoot @ high ISOs in broad daylight with NDs on with the CAnons. The image LOOKS better.
 
I'll admit I've been shooting almost exclusively ISO 100 just to keep the noise and FPN down. Lately I have been thinking there could be a different sweet spot for the GH1, especially now with the hack. I've gotta go experiment with 320 and 400 now.
 
As it so happens, I just got back from a shoot earlier today in which I had to resort to shooting at ISO 400, 500, 640, 800, and 1000 at times. This was all with the C settings in 60i wrapper (24p was not selected in Ptool). The shots just finished transcoding to ProRes422 in FCP and I must say they look fantastic. Very clean. No noise, no banding, no FPN even at ISO 1000. They actually seem more filmic than the shots I got at ISO 100 or 200 for some reason. I'm really liking this camera now with the improved bitrate. Incredible!
 
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