LOL - I did that on a few remote edits. Box is pretty clunky to transport,
especially if you have a lot of other gear to carry.
Imac & Mac Pro questions & recommendations
- Thread starter lesliewrg
- Start date
LOL - I did that on a few remote edits. Box is pretty clunky to transport,
especially if you have a lot of other gear to carry.
If one was to invest money in an IMAC I would only get a i5 or better. The i3 won't hand off threads as well and is a small uptick over a Core2duo.
Also nifty article on how to enable multi core'ing
http://www.digitalrebellion.com/blog/posts/using_compressor_with_multiple_cores.html
I'm currently in the process of ordering 12 new 12 core MP's for our Flash animators, They were all wanting 27 inch IMac's and I even tossed around the idea but after a bit of hard core thrashing the i7 Imac's we got and seeing the results against my personal 8 core MP they'll have to make do with the 24 inch monitors they have
The MP is always worth the more money as it's expandable in the future, the most recent releases are the most upgradable. CPU's, up to 4 internal drives and up to 4 video cards + whatever external drives can be thrown at it. Even a used Mac Pro 1,1 (Quad core 2.6) would about double your current power, plus eliminate the FW 400. Direct Sata2 always trumps the CPU of an external drive
Also nifty article on how to enable multi core'ing
http://www.digitalrebellion.com/blog/posts/using_compressor_with_multiple_cores.html
I'm currently in the process of ordering 12 new 12 core MP's for our Flash animators, They were all wanting 27 inch IMac's and I even tossed around the idea but after a bit of hard core thrashing the i7 Imac's we got and seeing the results against my personal 8 core MP they'll have to make do with the 24 inch monitors they have
The MP is always worth the more money as it's expandable in the future, the most recent releases are the most upgradable. CPU's, up to 4 internal drives and up to 4 video cards + whatever external drives can be thrown at it. Even a used Mac Pro 1,1 (Quad core 2.6) would about double your current power, plus eliminate the FW 400. Direct Sata2 always trumps the CPU of an external drive
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stonebat
Veteran
So you really carried iMac. LOL.
I'm a laptop guy. I wanna edit remotely... possibly on the fly. For editing short film, definitely laptop. Upcoming new MBP is rumored to have much better GPU. 8GB upgrade is easy. I wish MBP has 2 firewire ports, but it has only one. 15" doesn't have expresscard/34. G-Drive Mobile looks versatile. Have OSX installed on G-Drive Mobile just in case MBP's OS dies. Daisy-chain with 2nd G-Drive Mobile to backup files without slowing down the laptop. Power both drives from MBP. RAID 4/5/6 sounds nice... but I don't really buy into RAID solution after we passed 1TB mark on a single hdd.
I'm a laptop guy. I wanna edit remotely... possibly on the fly. For editing short film, definitely laptop. Upcoming new MBP is rumored to have much better GPU. 8GB upgrade is easy. I wish MBP has 2 firewire ports, but it has only one. 15" doesn't have expresscard/34. G-Drive Mobile looks versatile. Have OSX installed on G-Drive Mobile just in case MBP's OS dies. Daisy-chain with 2nd G-Drive Mobile to backup files without slowing down the laptop. Power both drives from MBP. RAID 4/5/6 sounds nice... but I don't really buy into RAID solution after we passed 1TB mark on a single hdd.
My first 24" Imac die on me! too hot and kill the graphic card, since then i use a dual Quad Core 2009 MacPro, with 14GB Ram, 2TB Hard Disks and working full time with FCP and Creative suite as daily work, no a single Freeze until today.
If you are serious about doing professional work with video see no more, the best you can buy is the Mac Pro.
Cheers
If you are serious about doing professional work with video see no more, the best you can buy is the Mac Pro.
Cheers
No doubt. The MacPro is definitely much better than an iMac.
Having said that, I'm currently editing a short film (6 mins) on an iMac with no issues whatsoever.
If I could justify the $3k - $5k for the MacPro I would move up right away.
Well i´m with you about the high price of the Macpro, but expandability, convenience, security, stability in video postproduction has a price, the Macpro are builded like a work horse, they are heavy and bigger, but you still see G5´s MacPro with more of 7 years old working on post houses, but is difficult to see Imacs that live more than 3 years of intensive work.
I Love the Imac, and mostly the new 27" is too damn gorgeous, in 2008 i made a 20min animated short film with two 24" Imac i have, one dies as i say; and then sell the other, but now i don´t see me working again with a Imac, rendering long hours of intense 3D and HD Video editing.
Cheers
wgzn
Veteran
the ONLY three reasons to buy an imac are:
- you are challenged for desktop space.
- youre not doing video professionally and thats all you can afford
- you are more concerned with home decor than machine perfomance
if you are doing fork for pay, the extra cost for a macpro will pay for itself pretty quickly in added performance.
i have a friend whos currently having the same debate as the OP here. and i told him my theory on imacs.
"all of the drawbacks of both a laptop and a desktop. with none of the benefits of either"
imacs are fine for graphic / web designers. but there are heavier and more variable demands in the video world. and though an imac will "work" acceptably. if you can pony up the added cash. a desktop is a FAR better choice
you can pick up a used octocore macpro for about $2k and it will handily smoke your macbook pro or an imac.
- you are challenged for desktop space.
- youre not doing video professionally and thats all you can afford
- you are more concerned with home decor than machine perfomance
if you are doing fork for pay, the extra cost for a macpro will pay for itself pretty quickly in added performance.
i have a friend whos currently having the same debate as the OP here. and i told him my theory on imacs.
"all of the drawbacks of both a laptop and a desktop. with none of the benefits of either"
imacs are fine for graphic / web designers. but there are heavier and more variable demands in the video world. and though an imac will "work" acceptably. if you can pony up the added cash. a desktop is a FAR better choice
you can pick up a used octocore macpro for about $2k and it will handily smoke your macbook pro or an imac.
Don't have the time to read all the posts, but I was editing on a 2010 MBP 13" 2.4ghz w/ 4GB. It just couldn't do it. But I also didn't have the money for a MacPro, and an iMac wasn't going to cut it.
So I went with a Hackintosh. It takes some planning, and some nerd skills, but my new machine (i7 950, 3.2ghz 8 cores, 12GB DDR5 1600mhz, GTX 460SE, 60SSD w/ storage, etc...) is amazing. I edit with Adobe, so the NVidia card was essential.
It took me a week to get everything working 100%, and I did pay for Snow Leopard. nofilmschool has a GREAT tutorial.
I cut my After Effects render times from 2 hours on a 45 second 1080p project, to 18 minutes. It's amazing.
So I went with a Hackintosh. It takes some planning, and some nerd skills, but my new machine (i7 950, 3.2ghz 8 cores, 12GB DDR5 1600mhz, GTX 460SE, 60SSD w/ storage, etc...) is amazing. I edit with Adobe, so the NVidia card was essential.
It took me a week to get everything working 100%, and I did pay for Snow Leopard. nofilmschool has a GREAT tutorial.
I cut my After Effects render times from 2 hours on a 45 second 1080p project, to 18 minutes. It's amazing.
Hunter5117
Member
I know there has been a lot of rumor regarding this especially since Steve Jobs poorly worded comment last year about the upcoming FCP update. However, I think Apple has done a lot since then to convince everyone they are still committed. The imminent update to FCP will tell the story. I look at what they did with Aperture 3 after so many people were unhappy with the Aperture 2 upgrade and 3 got updated to be a great product. I am still hanging in for the new FCP to be a winner.
PS to the OP, my very first Mac was an iMac purchased specifically when I switched from film to digital photography. When I decided to expand into video I needed to upgrade the iMac so I picked up a end-of-model 2008 Mac Pro with the dual 3.0ghz Xeons. This has been an awesome machine, I have progressively bumped it to 12gb ram and about 5tb of drives, dual video cards for dual cinema displays, etc. It has never felt laggy, and I still have room for another 4gb ram when it does. I can well imagine it will keep me happy for another 2 years maybe longer. The Mac Pro is a great platform and OSX in general is very good at maintaining speed of applications over the years.
PS to the OP, my very first Mac was an iMac purchased specifically when I switched from film to digital photography. When I decided to expand into video I needed to upgrade the iMac so I picked up a end-of-model 2008 Mac Pro with the dual 3.0ghz Xeons. This has been an awesome machine, I have progressively bumped it to 12gb ram and about 5tb of drives, dual video cards for dual cinema displays, etc. It has never felt laggy, and I still have room for another 4gb ram when it does. I can well imagine it will keep me happy for another 2 years maybe longer. The Mac Pro is a great platform and OSX in general is very good at maintaining speed of applications over the years.
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wgzn
Veteran
people have been spouting one version or another of this nonsense for ever. last time i remember was back when apple produced all those perfoma and centris models back in the mid 1990s. apple has always had at least one "pro" machine. and even if apple did just abandon the pro market. a mid to upper end desktop mac generally has about 7-10 years functional life span - barring some radical change in delivery paradigm...
there are a number of reasonable issues somebody could pick to try to talk someone out of choosing a mac. this however is not one of them.
Leslie,
Sounds like we have similar Macbook Pro models. You either have the late 2007 or early 2008 model. My personal opinion is that you have a more than capable and pretty powerful machine. Of course, not as screamingly fast as a Mac Pro or imac but still a fast machine that is being under utilized! I own a 2008 Macbook Pro editing with H2.64 Canon DSLR transcoded to Prores, DVCproHD, DV, HDV(to Prores), and will soon be picking up a GH2. My Macbook Pro works wonderfully FAST with Final Cut Studio! Being on a budget, no need to purchase another computer. I recommend adding some upgrades in order to utilize you laptop to its fullest capabilities...
First, you mention you have 4GB of RAM. I believe you have two 2GB modules. You can go as high as 6GB on your Macbook Pro. You will need to purchase a 4GB($88) module to replace one of your 2GB ones.
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other World Computing/5300DDR2S4GB/
Second, Why are you using firewire 400? Your Macbook Pro should have a firewire 800 as well as an express card slot. You can speed things up(transfers and have more layers of video) by purchasing a firewire bus powered RAID. You can get these as low as $180 for a 640GB RAID 0 or 320GB RAID 1. Connect via firewire 800 and you double your speed(and no AC adaptor required as it is powered by your fw 800 port!) You can use your firewire 400 drive you currently have as backup of your footage if going with RAID 0.
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/firewire/EliteALmini/RAID/eSATA_FW800_FW400_USB
Now if you want ultimate fast and about double the speed of firewire 800, pick up a Sonnet Tech Tempo Pro express esata card for $155. You have the convenience of using firewire 800 or esata!
http://www.provantage.com/sonnet-technologies-tsataii-pro-e34~7SONT084.htm
So the cost of these upgrades to maximize your Macbook Pro 2.4GHz is only...$268($423 with esata card)!
Not only do you get a faster Macbook Pro, but you're saving yourself $$$$!
I am editing with FCP Studio 3 on a 2008 15" 2.5GHz Macbook Pro with 6GB of memory, a Sonnet Tech Tempo Pro esata card, and an istoragepro 1GB AC power/bus powered istoragepro Pocket View having the convenience of an LCD and easily accessiblility of pulling out drives from its trays and replacing them with another drive in a few seconds!
http://www.istoragepro.com/prod.php?id=it2pktv
The joy and convenience of portability and editing over at Starbucks! Just my honest opinion! Hope this helps!
Sounds like we have similar Macbook Pro models. You either have the late 2007 or early 2008 model. My personal opinion is that you have a more than capable and pretty powerful machine. Of course, not as screamingly fast as a Mac Pro or imac but still a fast machine that is being under utilized! I own a 2008 Macbook Pro editing with H2.64 Canon DSLR transcoded to Prores, DVCproHD, DV, HDV(to Prores), and will soon be picking up a GH2. My Macbook Pro works wonderfully FAST with Final Cut Studio! Being on a budget, no need to purchase another computer. I recommend adding some upgrades in order to utilize you laptop to its fullest capabilities...
First, you mention you have 4GB of RAM. I believe you have two 2GB modules. You can go as high as 6GB on your Macbook Pro. You will need to purchase a 4GB($88) module to replace one of your 2GB ones.
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other World Computing/5300DDR2S4GB/
Second, Why are you using firewire 400? Your Macbook Pro should have a firewire 800 as well as an express card slot. You can speed things up(transfers and have more layers of video) by purchasing a firewire bus powered RAID. You can get these as low as $180 for a 640GB RAID 0 or 320GB RAID 1. Connect via firewire 800 and you double your speed(and no AC adaptor required as it is powered by your fw 800 port!) You can use your firewire 400 drive you currently have as backup of your footage if going with RAID 0.
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/firewire/EliteALmini/RAID/eSATA_FW800_FW400_USB
Now if you want ultimate fast and about double the speed of firewire 800, pick up a Sonnet Tech Tempo Pro express esata card for $155. You have the convenience of using firewire 800 or esata!
http://www.provantage.com/sonnet-technologies-tsataii-pro-e34~7SONT084.htm
So the cost of these upgrades to maximize your Macbook Pro 2.4GHz is only...$268($423 with esata card)!
Not only do you get a faster Macbook Pro, but you're saving yourself $$$$!
I am editing with FCP Studio 3 on a 2008 15" 2.5GHz Macbook Pro with 6GB of memory, a Sonnet Tech Tempo Pro esata card, and an istoragepro 1GB AC power/bus powered istoragepro Pocket View having the convenience of an LCD and easily accessiblility of pulling out drives from its trays and replacing them with another drive in a few seconds!
http://www.istoragepro.com/prod.php?id=it2pktv
The joy and convenience of portability and editing over at Starbucks! Just my honest opinion! Hope this helps!
stonebat
Veteran
Actually anything cheap raid box is based on software instead of real hardware based raid card. A decent hardware raid card itself costs around $1K. I'd go for all internal bus solution.
For MBP, u could replace the factory default hdd and the optical drive with 2 * 1TB hdds. Then get an ext bluray burner.
Create two partitions on each hdd. 80 GB for os and apps and the rest for data.
Install osx and apps on the master hdd's os partition.
Use Carbon Copy Cloner to copy the os partition to the slave hdd's os partition. It's 2nd OSX just in case the first hdd dies.
Use the slave hdd's data partition for editing data. Use OSX Time Machine to do incremental backup to the master hdd's data partition. Tweak the backup time interval setting of Time Machine.
That's it. No Firewire. No eSATA. Well... Firewire for 2nd Time Machine backup.
For MBP, u could replace the factory default hdd and the optical drive with 2 * 1TB hdds. Then get an ext bluray burner.
Create two partitions on each hdd. 80 GB for os and apps and the rest for data.
Install osx and apps on the master hdd's os partition.
Use Carbon Copy Cloner to copy the os partition to the slave hdd's os partition. It's 2nd OSX just in case the first hdd dies.
Use the slave hdd's data partition for editing data. Use OSX Time Machine to do incremental backup to the master hdd's data partition. Tweak the backup time interval setting of Time Machine.
That's it. No Firewire. No eSATA. Well... Firewire for 2nd Time Machine backup.
djrockadoo
Active member
Do yourself a favor and get the oldest/best Mac Pro Intel you can afford. Anything with an Intel chip will more than suit your needs. You don't need any USB3 cards or anything whatsoever. Your Firewire 800 connections will get you 3 streams of ProRes HQ. And go buy 4 1TB Seagate drives from newegg.com they are about 59.99. Put your System on the first drive, Time Machine on the Second and raid the 2nd two giving you about 150/MBps, enough for 6-7 streams of Pro Res HQ. Smarter still would be to get an external drive for your Time Machine and Raid three of the internal drives together. You can easily do all this for under 1500 bucks and have a machine that will edit what you need done till the cows come home. Don't get an Imac. Things change and the Imac won't be able to change with it.
Hunter5117
Member
+1 Sounds like great advice.
+2
Yes this is great advice, the only other thing I would do if you had the expertise and time but not the money would be to make a Hackintosh instead
Partitioning a single HDD for use as a boot partition and a capture partition is not what I would recommend.
You do not want the OS, media, and application competing for head access.
I don't recommend it.
You do not want the OS, media, and application competing for head access.
I don't recommend it.
One thing to note is with striped volumes using the software raid I have usually ended up losing one of the drives after about 2 weeks, causing the whole stripe to go down. What happens is the drives have a "delay to write time max =" most of the time this delay is about 1 to 2 seconds. In a striped raid it's about 7 seconds. Most drives (WD Caviar Black's) you can use a util to set these to 7 seconds. If not set to 7 seconds any write that takes more than a couple seconds to write to the disk will cause the stripe to fail, and everything in the stipes goes down. This is usually why you stripe then mirror the raid. The mirrored drives will resync later. The WD Caviar Black is the enterprise drive with the enterprise settings turned off. Using the WD drive util you can for the write delay on. I've never done it with seagates, with Seagate I just use the ES drives (I have stacks of 160's from the xservers I have, but sadly even a 8 disk striped array of 160's yield next to little amounts of working room.
With the Apple raid card ($500ish) you get a buffered write ram of about 256megs, possible 512, can't remember off the top of my head, but after dropping my stripped array in my MP 3 times I stopped screwing around and got the raid card, since then everything performance wise has improved many times over what the software raid was. Remember if you create a software raid only raid matched disks. Don't try to raid a WD 1tb drive with a Seagate 1 tb drive, the spin up and down time can cause the raid to fail as well. So match at least 2 dirves, preferably Enterprise drives or ones that can be flipped to act as ES drives.