I'm sorry, but WHAT??

Dear Paul,

Yes, we should be able to record 2K Raw, at lower frame rates, using just one 240 GB, 480 GB, or 960 GB SSD.

As I calculate it, 120 fps in 2K Raw, 12-Bit Linear, is around 385 Megabytes per second.

This is just slightly over our desired limit (which establishes a safety margin) of 380 Megabytes per second.)

And these calculations do not always consider the small header for each Cinema DNG file.

We will know more as we proceed with our testing, but up to 100 or more frames per second should be safe.

Edit: We are currently recording 2K Raw, 12-Bits Linear, from the FS700, to just one SSD, at 120 fps, so we are planning to support up to 120 fps to one SSD.

Later, we may find that 380 Megabytes per second is too conservative, if so, then we may be able to support 120 fps in this mode.


In case you have not heard, we are now successfully recording from the FS700, 240 fps, in 12-Bit Linear Raw, continuously, and the resulting Cinema DNG files are playing back perfectly in a normal Non-Linear Editor. I understand that the images are looking very good.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
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Dear Friends,

I have seen many posts on this forum comparing the Sony FS700 to the Blackmagic Design Production Camera 4K.

I want to point out, that the Blackmagic Design 4K camera has an effective resolution of 3840 x 2160 photosites.

Here is the link to their tech specs:

http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicproductioncamera4k/techspecs


For consumer televisions, it is common for manufacturers to call 3840 x 2160 photosites as 4K.

For professional cameras, this is more typically called Quad HD.

For professional cameras, 4K typically refers to an effective resolution of 4096 x 2160 photosites.

(But there are typically even a few more photosites to allow for a clean deBayer, otherwise one could not deBayer the photosites near the edges.)


And while I am talking about photosites, I want to point out that these values are the number of photosites, not full (three color) pixels.
Each photosite is for one color only, red, blue or green.

Thus 4096 x 2160 is 4096 photosites horizontally, which for one line is typically 2048 Reds + 2048 Greens, and the next line is 2048 Greens + 2048 Blues.

So, as I see it, Sony and Canon are using what I consider the professional 4K definition.


And any way one looks at it, these cameras have more resolution in their 4K modes than the Blackmagic Design 4K camera.


I just wanted to point this out, as some seem to imply that the Blackmagic Design 4K Camera is an equal (or reasonably equal) for comparison purposes.

Of course, since the Blackmagic Design 4K camera costs less, it can certainly be used as a basis for comparison, as this defines what features and resolution are currently available for the lower cost.

There are, of course, many other areas where the comparison of the two cameras is not exactly equal.

I hope this helps.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
Dear Friends,

I have an update on recording to one SSD, in FS700 2K Raw, in 12-bit Cinema DNG.

We will be able to record this mode at 120 fps.

We are currently doing this now so we are currently comfortable supporting this frame rate with just one SSD.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
thank you for your post, Dan!

today i went the Sony's small meeting for FS700 4K2K raw stuff.
i saw that raw footages and i must say that's the one i sell my kidney for! Gee, that was simply gorgeous, rich, and full of the color information!

i'm not good with English so i can't describe how good the raw footages FS700 produce but now i understand that you're keep saying "2K240fps looks good". yes, it's totally different level from the current 8sec. burst and i just can't go back!!!

again, i would like to say thank you and CD, and of course Sony, for giving us such a huge upgrade. it's amazing that we can get this kinda major progress for year old camera.
 
Dear Freiheit,

Isn't progress great?

This new 2K Raw mode uses the entire sensor, it is not windowed, and 2K Raw in 12-bit Linear, continuously, is very nice.

Our team is very happy with the images.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
Awesome! Can't wait until we can all get our hands on this.


SM


Dan Keaton said:
Dear Freiheit,

Isn't progress great?

This new 2K Raw mode uses the entire sensor, it is not windowed, and 2K Raw in 12-bit Linear, continuously, is very nice.

Our team is very happy with the images.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
Click to expand...
 
freiheit said:
thank you for your post, Dan!

today i went the Sony's small meeting for FS700 4K2K raw stuff.
i saw that raw footages and i must say that's the one i sell my kidney for! Gee, that was simply gorgeous, rich, and full of the color information!

i'm not good with English so i can't describe how good the raw footages FS700 produce but now i understand that you're keep saying "2K240fps looks good". yes, it's totally different level from the current 8sec. burst and i just can't go back!!!

again, i would like to say thank you and CD, and of course Sony, for giving us such a huge upgrade. it's amazing that we can get this kinda major progress for year old camera.
Click to expand...

Why didn't you throw a tear gas in there and steal the damn things....saving Dan having to explain in words how beautiful the 2K/4K image they are getting with Odyssey7Q or AXS-R5.
 
I'm glad that D. Levine's sarcasm and cynicism in the opening salvo on this thread has given way to one of the most helpful and informative discussions we've had recently.

Not only that but Dan Keaton's posts have shed a whole new light on Convergent Design's efforts to upgrade a great camera and I (we) owe him a word of thanks.


Scott Nelson
 
freiheit said:
i saw that raw footages and i must say that's the one i sell my kidney for! Gee, that was simply gorgeous, rich, and full of the color information!
Click to expand...

your english has to be quite good to make the kidney joke. or is that a japanese idiom? anyway, most people don't write about images with any more specificity than those adjectives you use.
 
Dan, will you be able to upload 2K RAW footage shot on your FS700 anytime soon? Or make it available to download?

Also, when you shoot 2K RAW on the FS700 via the 7Q, are the RAW files in a wrapper (i.e. CinemaDNG Quicktime Wrapper), or are they individual CinemaDNG files for every single frame (like on a current Blackmagic camera)?

And for those wondering, RAW can be put inside a CinemaDNG Quicktime Wrapper; according to an interview I recently saw with Blackmagic owner Grant Petty, their new 4K camera will be shooting RAW and saving it inside a CinemaDNG Quicktime Wrapper.

Interview can be viewed here, fast forward to 07:40 for info on the CinemaDNG Quicktime Wrapper: https://vimeo.com/63892665
 
Maybe a terrible question, but is there an option for 1080p RAW? I don't think i'll be rendering 4k or 2k any time soon. The image quality of RAW is still great even at 1080p, isn't it? Or am i missing the whole point of RAW? :undecided
 
Well, correct me if im wrong but i think 2k in pixels is 2048 x 1536 and then you only narrow it down to 1920 x 1080 (1080p) on the timeline in you editing software if thats what you want. That way you have the option for 2k if you want and you can choose what to do with it. :) I might be wrong but yeah thats the idea I think
 
i beliebe that 2K size of FS700 is going to be 2048x1080 pixel and 4K will be 4096 x 2160. so it's only 128pix wider than 1080P.
 
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Daomay said:
Why didn't you throw a tear gas in there and steal the damn things....saving Dan having to explain in words how beautiful the 2K/4K image they are getting with Odyssey7Q or AXS-R5.
Click to expand...

Dear Daomay,

We would like to be able to provide some images right now, but our team is very busy getting the FS700 code ready for Cine Gear Expo.

If we have it ready before Cine Gear Expo, which is just in a few days (Today is Tuesday, and it starts on Friday), then we may put the FS700 + Odyssey7Q + FS700 Recording Option in the hands of a Cinematographer.

A more likely case is that the rig will be used to create some images while at Cine Gear Expo.

If possible, our team or others may be able to share these images.

Our lab is on the fourth floor of a building in Colorado Springs, Colorado. We typically point the cameras out the window towards Pike's Peak, which is a nice view.

But shooting through a less than pristine window, with reflections from the room in the glass, does not make for great images.

Since we need the camera and unit for our development and testing, we can't let it loose out of the office just yet.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
ScottNelson said:
I'm glad that D. Levine's sarcasm and cynicism in the opening salvo on this thread has given way to one of the most helpful and informative discussions we've had recently.

Not only that but Dan Keaton's posts have shed a whole new light on Convergent Design's efforts to upgrade a great camera and I (we) owe him a word of thanks.

Scott Nelson
Click to expand...

Dear Scott,

Thank you! That was very nice of you to say that publicly!

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
Hey Dan,

It's probably been asked already (so many responses on these threads), but would something like the CD Nano Flash be able to record TRUE 10bit 4:2:2 (not in a wrapper) in high frame rates with the forthcoming technique you were talking about? For me, I really need something light and small for field work, especially since quite often I just shoot using the on-board LCD and a modified loupe.

Thanks for all your responses.
 
Simon Shasha said:
Dan, will you be able to upload 2K RAW footage shot on your FS700 anytime soon? Or make it available to download?

Also, when you shoot 2K RAW on the FS700 via the 7Q, are the RAW files in a wrapper (i.e. CinemaDNG Quicktime Wrapper), or are they individual CinemaDNG files for every single frame (like on a current Blackmagic camera)?

And for those wondering, RAW can be put inside a CinemaDNG Quicktime Wrapper; according to an interview I recently saw with Blackmagic owner Grant Petty, their new 4K camera will be shooting RAW and saving it inside a CinemaDNG Quicktime Wrapper.

Interview can be viewed here, fast forward to 07:40 for info on the CinemaDNG Quicktime Wrapper: https://vimeo.com/63892665
Click to expand...

Dear Simon,

At least initially, we plan on recording Cinema DNG files using the normal method, which is one frame per file, without an outer wrapper.

For those that have not worked with DPX or Cinema DNG before, this seems strange, but it works quite well.

It is not like one has to be concerned that the files are individual frames, the Non-Linear Editors and other software tools makes this easy.

So one does not need to put each and every frame onto a timeline one by one.

We will investigate the advantages of adding a Quicktime Wrapper and consider it.

Of course, we like for it to be an accepted and supported industry standard.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
Dan Keaton said:
Dear Daomay,

We would like to be able to provide some images right now, but our team is very busy getting the FS700 code ready for Cine Gear Expo.

If we have it ready before Cine Gear Expo, which is just in a few days (Today is Tuesday, and it starts on Friday), then we may put the FS700 + Odyssey7Q + FS700 Recording Option in the hands of a Cinematographer.

A more likely case is that the rig will be used to create some images while at Cine Gear Expo.

If possible, our team or others may be able to share these images.

Our lab is on the fourth floor of a building in Colorado Springs, Colorado. We typically point the cameras out the window towards Pike's Peak, which is a nice view.

But shooting through a less than pristine window, with reflections from the room in the glass, does not make for great images.

Since we need the camera and unit for our development and testing, we can't let it loose out of the office just yet.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
Click to expand...

So now you are telling me, One of us FS700's owner are going to have to climb up to the fourth floor of your LAB and steal it hehe. You know what DAN! just Shut up and take my money already...Just kidding! we can't wait to see some footages from Cine Gear Expo. You boys at Covergent Design must be very excited. Don't forget to share the love from Cine Gear Expo 'cause my heart is there but my body is stuck in Australia, Your product had me at hello. Just need to tell the wife she is not getting her Versace Handbag for her birthday but she is getting Vietsace instead. That 3.5K is going to go to the O7Q. They say happy wife is a happy life. I say Happy life (me) mean a happy wife :-)
 
Chad N said:
Maybe a terrible question, but is there an option for 1080p RAW? I don't think i'll be rendering 4k or 2k any time soon. The image quality of RAW is still great even at 1080p, isn't it? Or am i missing the whole point of RAW? :undecided
Click to expand...

Dear Chad,

Here are my thoughts on your question.

For the FS700, 4K Raw is 4096 x 2160 photosites (and not pixels, if we define each pixel as having a red, blue and green component.)

For the FS700, 2K Raw is 2048 x 1080 photosites.

(In each case, the number of actual photosites is bigger so that the deBayer process can properly deBayer the edges of the images (and for other reasons.)

And the other side is the bit-depth, which for the upgraded FS700 is 12-Bit Linear, so around 4096 levels per color.


HD, is 1920 x 1080 pixels, (thus each pixel has a red blue and green component).

One can take 2K Raw or 4K Raw and create (debayer) HD, and one can keep the 12-Bit, bit depth.

Or one can limit the bit depth to 10-Bits if necessary for the codec being used to save the file.

Or one can record the HD in full uncompressed, in 10-Bit or keeping the full 12-Bit, bit depth.


Please rest assured that our team will take the images from the FS700, then create very high quality HD for you, all within the Odyssey7Q and in real-time. This makes for a very easy, quick workflow.

Thus, while the FS700 appears (at least at this time) to have 8-Bit effective HD output over HD-SDI, we will provide at least 10-Bit HD for you.

Later, we may offer 12-Bit HD also using a version of another very popular codec.

We plan on including these higher bit-depth HD recording options in our FS700 Recording Option.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
Daomay said:
So now you are telling me, One of us FS700's owner are going to have to climb up to the fourth floor of your LAB and steal it hehe. You know what DAN! just Shut up and take my money already...Just kidding! we can't wait to see some footages from Cine Gear Expo. You boys at Covergent Design must be very excited. Don't forget to share the love from Cine Gear Expo 'cause my heart is there but my body is stuck in Australia, Your product had me at hello. Just need to tell the wife she is not getting her Versace Handbag for her birthday but she is getting Vietsace instead. That 3.5K is going to go to the O7Q. They say happy wife is a happy life. I say Happy life (me) mean a happy wife :-)
Click to expand...

Dear Daomay,

If our schedules work out, we hope to loan the gear to a Cinematograher on Thursday afternoon, so that they can test the setup.

But, please understand how difficult it is for a Cinematographer to shoot great footage, then edit it, then post it while away from home and having to use very slow internet connections.

We do hope to have good footage for you in about a week or so, maybe sooner.

-----------------

Yes, we are very excited about our Odyssey7Q and our ability to deliver working firmware in such a short time.

Two weeks ago today is when we received the decompression module from Sony. But, we had the documentation earlier, so we had a head start, and we have been working for many months developing firmware to handle 4K Raw from other cameras.

So while it appears that our team has only been working on this for a little while, we are building upon a great deal of expertise and technology that we acquired earlier through a great deal of hard work. To be fair, I hope that is what you expect from us.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
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