I'm sorry, but WHAT??

[eliomys]

I only think that people that already own an external 10-bit 422 recorder and a monitor won't be happy if they were just hoping for 10-bit external output. Although I think the Odyssey 7 is a great product, I think it will be too big for many run and gun shooters, especially documentary people. So for most of my use there won't be much improvement from this update and introduced recorders.

The F3 is moving to the top of my list now, if only there was a Metabones FZ-mount to Canon EF lens adaptor. That would make a big difference! I would even consider the F5 if it existed.

 

[Dan Keaton]

My understanding is that with the Sony 4K recorder, you WILL need the Sony hardware connection unit (IFR5) to make it work. But the Odyssey will work without it, meaning you can connect the Odyssey directly to the FS700 and (once you've had the necessary firmware upgrade done), it will record 2K raw or 4K compressed. (Sony themselves seem to be giving out information that contradicts some of this, but this is my understanding of how it can work straight from Convergent.)

So now you've got 2K raw or 4K compressed, all for around $6-8K, depending on the firmware upgrade from Sony, give or take.

And if you factor in that you're also getting the ability to record high-frame rates at 2K and (somewhat) at 4K, you're starting to enter Epic(ish) territory in terms of capability. And for a significantly lower price.

Now another camera can certainly come along and fill that space, sure. But based on what Canon has given us in the past year or so, it doesn't seem to be in their plans to deliver something competitive to the FS700 at anywhere near the price point. Panasonic could do it, as they've got absolutely zero products in the market to protect. But they've shown no inclination to do so.

But you can also look at the FS700 2K/4K option as a killer rental item to have access to when you need it. If a client wants/needs 2K/4K, and you've got the FS700, it will be something you can offer (and charge for).

As for the 1DC…well, it was a good idea but less-than-stellar execution.

Dear Stephen,

Thank you for your posts.

I do want to confirm, that with an upgraded Sony FS700, the Odyssey7Q + FS700 Option will be able to record without having to use the Sony Interface unit, in 2K Raw, in 12-Bits Linear, and 4K uncompressed. (Please note that I said uncompressed and you need two of our 240 GB or larger SSD's to record at this very high frame rate.)

We will need to have our planned "other very popular codec" finished before we can record 4K compressed, so this is in the future.
Or if the Avid DNxHD 444 flavor is certified by SMPTE on time, then we may have that compressed option as well.

Also, we plan on accepting very high quality 12-Bit Linear Raw video from the upgraded FS700 and output HD 1920x1080 in Avid DNxHD-220x (which is 10-Bits).

And we plan on supporting the other very popular codec in the future which we expect will allow us to record compressed HD in 12-Bit Linear.

So, there will be lots of options.

And yes, most of this, but not all, is real at this moment. (We are currently recording from the FS700 in 2K Raw, 12-Bits Linear, at 240 fps with an Odyssey7Q and will demonstrate this in person at Cine Gear Expo this Friday, May 31th and Saturday, June 1st, at our booth S222.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design

 

[Dan Keaton]

....

So, the only other current option, the Convergent Design Odyssey7Q:

$300 for the hardware update (you don't have to pay this if you buy a Sony recorder)
$2,295 Odyssey 7Q (being from UK I will pay a fair amount of shipping and A LOT of tax importing this, I'm leaving that off
$695 or $4390 240GB SSD or 2x$960GB SSDs (see total)
$1495 FS700 support (this is effectively the passed on licence Sony ask CD to pay for the privilege of unweaving their raw stream, thanks Sony! You can pay this as rental per day if you want at $75 a day, personally I think that's bonkers, will I use this recording mechanism for more than 20 days in it's life - yes!)
$100 battery and charger, not sure what it takes but in fairness I should add something on
TOTAL=$4885 or $8580 (I believe some modes require two of the high speed 960GB SSDs working in tandem, for instance the 240fps 2k raw mode, not sure on this though)

Dear Tobyloc,

I do want to correct your impression on a couple of items.

1. "(this is effectively the passed on licence Sony ask CD to pay for the privilege of unweaving their raw stream, thanks Sony!)"

No, this is not a license fee that we pay Sony, this is what we charge for the Sony FS700 Recording Option.

It takes time, effort and money to develop these recording options and we do charge for them.

We have heard loud and clear that some on this forum would like us to charge less for this option.

Also, we are seriously thinking of changing our recording options that that they are more "Camera Specific", so that when one orders the FS700 option, for example, we will do our best to support every option in the camera, subject to any limitations that we have based on written agreements, and of course any possible hardware limitations.

We are planning to add, to our original FS700 Recording Option, the ability to record in HD, in 10 Bit or Higher, compressed, from the Sony FS700 Raw 12-Bit Linear data stream.

Please understand that we have time to adjust our Recording Options before we ship the Odyssey7Q.


2. No Recording Mode requires two 960 GB SSD's. For example, one can record compressed with one 240 GB SSD, and record 2K Raw at 240 fps using two 240 GB SSD's.

3. We have not promised recording HD compressed at 240 fps, at least not yet (as far as I remember, if I did, it was a mistake on my part.)

We may or may not be able to accomplish recording compressed at 240 fps, but I feel that I have not promised it either. We will know later.

4. Our concept of recording HD, using the FS700 12-Bit Linear Raw as the input source is only a few days old.

We have not had time to consider all of the pricing ramifications of this feature. We are debating this internally.

We do realize that some will only want HD at 10-Bits or more, and others will want this plus Raw at 12-Bits.

So, I am asking for some time for us to consider this new development.

But please do not misunderstand, our engineers have carefully considered this from a technical level, and we definitely plan on offering this wonderful feature.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design

 

[Simon Shasha]

Can we give this crap up now? Yes it has been confirmed that the camera can't do 10-bit internally or via SDI with third-party recorders. It does 12-bit RAW with either Sony recorder or with Odyssey7q after the upgrade. Odyssey7q will be able to use that raw to record 10-bit 1080 video. The hardware in the camera is not capable of doing 10-bit internally. This was made crystal clear by Sony at NAB several months.

Not only Sony never ever promised 10-bit internal recording, but they said it IT WON'T HAPPEN at NAB when they were asked about it.

Or it could be what Sony actually said at NAB: the hardware in the camera cannot do 10-bit video, period. Why is that so difficult to understand?

Calm down, mate. Not all us take notes on every word Sony says at NAB. No need to be so damn condescending.

 

[Simon Shasha]

Can we be polite here? 'giving up this crap' appears to be telling other people to discuss what you want them to discuss. Whether Sony have said previously that the FS700 can only ever be 8 bit internally due to it's AVCHD based hardware is irrelevant as we've been discussing, because Sony came out of the blue to tell us they are upgrading the internal hardware. Does that mean they promised us 10 bit? No! But it gave some of us hope and it introduced the possibility. When the person testing SLog2 on the modified FS700 suggested to the engineers it should be 10 bit they didn't tell him "no, that's impossible", they were obviously looking into what they could do. The F3 does 8 bit internally to a specific 8 bit limited codec, that doesn't mean it can't do 10 bit externally, in fact that's exactly what it does. Older Sony cameras used to do 8 bit internally and 10 bit externally, they didn't even have log. Neither you nor I know exactly what hardware would need to be replaced to make it 8 bit internal and 10 bit external, I find it impossible to believe 8 bits are so hardcoded throughout every board that it's not possible to change the output while keeping AVCHD. I imagine if 10 bit definitely isn't coming, that that was more of a business decision rather than a technical decision and that's what I've been talking about, the missed opportunity.

No-one expected the FS700, an upgrade on the FS100 to be 240fps, that was a completely innovative and an unexpected hardware upgrade and was and still is amazing, I love mine and have no interest in selling it while it's still unique in this price range. Slog2 and a hardware upgrade pointed towards 10 bit out, the F3 version of SLog has less dynamic range than SLog2 and grading that 8 bit image is considered tricky:

"The dynamic range will be exactly the same for S-Log recordings on to SxS cards as it will be to an external device, whether it’s 4:4:4 RGB or 4:2:2. However the SxS recordings are only going to be 8 bit 35 Mb/s, so when you grade these back to a sensible looking image you may see banding getting introduced." - Alistair Chapman talking about the F3 and S-log, (noteS-log2 has more dynamic range the S-log)

It very much looks like 10 bit isn't happening and I, along with perhaps others think Sony missed an opportunity there to carry on that innovative process and step up to the competition under $10k. I'm not suggesting I hate Sony, I really like them and my camera, I'm not suggesting anyone sell anything, I'm not trying to badmouth anyone. I just think as much as HFRs are the USP of this camera and are amazing, most people want to shoot 24/25p most of the time, what is Sony's offering under $10k for that now? It's a boxy $7,500 8 bit 4:2:2 with a $500-1000 recorder attached, that is good, but it's starting to look dated, like Canon's offerings are looking dated though they are more ergonomic and a sharper 1080p. I've got a pocket BMC on order and a hacked 5D3, more people are getting BMCs, the M43 version and maybe the 4k version is coming soon etc etc. if I have a project in 3 month's time that's to be shot in 25p that's not in the dark I might use a $1000 point and shoot looking thing because it might give me better image quality than my FS700 and a hacked camera as backup because the quality is much better. That isn't a good situation for Sony if I'm anything like a typical owner. Sony should realise with the F3 going the FS700 is their best bastion of indie film making camera left in the sub $10k bracket and they could have made it stand up to the competition more strongly as well as give it some amazing high end, much more expensive 4k/2k/raw options. I know 1000+ colour levels holds up to well to grading (and log requires grading), I know 256 colour levels don't. I just think they missed a quick win here that wouldn't affect F5 sales, I think it's okay to discuss that in a forum and it seems entirely on topic in this threadf, if you don't want to discuss that you don't have to!

+1

Take note "evilthought" - that's how you write a decent, detailed reply without being condescending.

 

[freshTEA]

I only think that people that already own an external 10-bit 422 recorder and a monitor won't be happy if they were just hoping for 10-bit external output. Although I think the Odyssey 7 is a great product, I think it will be too big for many run and gun shooters, especially documentary people. So for most of my use there won't be much improvement from this update and introduced recorders.

The F3 is moving to the top of my list now, if only there was a Metabones FZ-mount to Canon EF lens adaptor. That would make a big difference! I would even consider the F5 if it existed.

I know.. almost everything I do is run n gun... I too have been looking for a good adapter alternative for FZ mounts... I think I saw one but it was for 1600 $ and its pretty new.. and was originally made for the f3 so they might need to adjust it for the f5.

Im imagining that a 7'7 inch screen wont be too big for run n gun xD xD
A fs700 with this
*http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...ov_303_1701_Lightweight_Support_for_Sony.html
and the odyssey..

and a lightweight solution for power supply

 

[eliomys]

I know.. almost everything I do is run n gun... I too have been looking for a good adapter alternative for FZ mounts... I think I saw one but it was for 1600 $ and its pretty new.. and was originally made for the f3 so they might need to adjust it for the f5.

Do you mean the F3 to Canon EF adapter made by MTF? I don't really like the external box to make it work. It's way to big for me to be practical.

Im imagining that a 7'7 inch screen wont be too big for run n gun xD xD

Where would you suggest to mount it. I think I would bump into everything with it especially if cables are sticking out. On the back: seems dangerous to break the screen running backwards.

I'm using the Element Technica Micron rig and was thinking of adding a V-mount battery system. You can do it with the IDX P-V257 Endura V-mount plate. It has a 12V to 7,3V converter built in and it also give unregulated 12V out. You just need to make a little cable from the D-Tap to the power adapter input of the FS700. This would also work with the Odyssey 7.

 

[freshTEA]

uugh, cant find it now but it might have been one with a box, they didnt mention it thou..

to be honest i was thinking to use it infront of me with edelkrone monitor holder...
http://www.smallhd.com/gallery/wp-content/uploads/Shooter_Photos/Han_Ying_Shirley_04.jpg
but with a bigger screen then the one on the picture..

 

[Dan Keaton]

I only think that people that already own an external 10-bit 422 recorder and a monitor won't be happy if they were just hoping for 10-bit external output. Although I think the Odyssey 7 is a great product, I think it will be too big for many run and gun shooters, especially documentary people. So for most of my use there won't be much improvement from this update and introduced recorders.

The F3 is moving to the top of my list now, if only there was a Metabones FZ-mount to Canon EF lens adaptor. That would make a big difference! I would even consider the F5 if it existed.

Dear Eliomys,

I am curious, if you have actual seen, or held an Odyssey7 or Odyssey7Q?

I am not asking this to be rude, or confrontational.

I am asking this since even my thorough knowledge of our Odyssey7 and Odyssey7Q did not prepare me for when I first saw and held the units.

I knew all of the spec's, 6.1" high, 7.9" wide, and about 1" thick, and the weight of about 1.2 pounds.

This sounded big to me. Then, prior to me being able to actually see one, I made a paper cut-out.

It was smaller, and more manageable that I had imagined, even knowing all of the dimensions.

Then, when I actually held one, I was again impressed.



For NAB, we made our brochures the exact size of the unit so that one could take it home and envision it on their cameras.

If I remember correctly, we mounted the Odyssey7 or Odyssey7Q on the Hot Shoe of the FS700, using just a simple Hot Shoe Ball Mount.
This was very workable during our demo's.


For other cameras, we used a Noga arm, which is an ideal mounting option for many cameras.

We had over 2,000 very interested guests come by our booth and get an in-depth demo.

For the demo's that I gave, and those that I know of, we had only one mention that they wanted another size, and that person wanted it to be 10" diagonal.



Before the show, and while we were developing this, we had people who asked us to make it no larger than our nanoFlash.

We were in a bind, as we could not discuss our new unannounced product at the time. Thus, we could not explain all of the benefits of the 7.7" monitor at the time, such as being able to clearly see the detail in the images (in full screen mode), and split the screen into four quadrant mode to show (for example), the live image, a waveform monitor, a histogram, and false color (or peaking, or a color vectorscope, etc.) all at once in our Odyssey7Q model.


In order to record at very high frame rates, or to be able to record 4K Raw or 4K Uncompressed, one needs two SSD's.

We choose to use 2.5" SSD's for various reasons. And, for heat dissipation reasons, they are best side-by-side, not stacked on top of each other.

Thus, they fit nicely behind the 7.7" diagonal monitor, and would be much wider than a 5.0" diagonal monitor.

If we build a model with just one SSD, then we have to support only modes that record at 400 Megabyte per second or less. Thus, one loses functionality with certain cameras such as the Sony F3, F23, F35, Canon C500, Sony FS700 and more.

Maybe later, even faster SSD's will become available and this would then change.

I hope this helps, and I hope you understand that I am not attempting to be confrontational, just explaining my personal experiences and thoughts.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design

 

[tobyloc]

Hi Dan,
Just wanted to say thank you for all your posts in this section and others, I really appreciate the communication and I'm sure many others do too, we obviously don't represent everyone but it's nice to be heard and be able to talk with you about upcoming features on the Odyssey.
Apologies if I misunderstood some of those points earlier, I thought some modes needed specific sized drives as they were faster, thanks for clarifying and confirming 240fps 2k raw only needs two drives of any size, it's a big feature. I did understand and mention that I wasn't sure you could do 240fps 2k compressed as I understood it required more processing than 2k raw, I don't personally think that feature is going to be a deal maker for many, rather it's something that we might have had much more easily if the FS700 had 10 bit out which was why I was mentioning it.

I've personally been looking at the small HD 7.7" OLED monitors and any recorders that can do 60p so that I can record the FS700's 240fps buffered stream so the Odyssey 7 is very interesting to me (as it's effectively both!) and the 7Q will be interesting if I think I will be able to convince clients of the 4k or raw value. I realise the 7Q is the flagship and targeted at the raw, 4k, F5/C500/Alexa crowd but as I think I mentioned on another thread, I wouldn't underestimate the fact you have the cheapest 60p recorder (with great looking monitor), that is of great value to FS700 and FS100 owners.

Thanks,
Toby

 

[eliomys]

Hi Dan,

Don't worry about me being confronted. I like people that discuss and listen and learn from each other. Don't get me wrong, I do see the benefits of your recorder designed around this monitor. It looks like a very nice size for a monitor and the quality looks great. And yes, I tried to visualize the exact size (even with a ruler) ;-)

But try to imagine the kind of use a lot of people using shoulder camera's are after. I would advise you to try it yourself to understand properly. It's just out of experience I say all this. When using a shoulder camera I need an EVF that only covers one eye. My left eye needs to be able to see what's happening off-screen. To see what my documentary characters are doing/planning to do, so I can anticipate quickly enough to reframe the action before the moment is gone. Also I need to see where I'm going. Looking at a monitor or a wide EVF simply blocks your view for what happens off-screen. If I need a recorder, where am I going to putt it so it doesn't ruin the balance on your shoulder. Off-balance is a terrible idea if you're running around with a camera on your shoulder all day for weeks (who will pay for my physiotherapist to fix my back?). Preferably on the back where it can act as a counterbalance, but that is the place where you don't always see where you're going and accidentally bump into something. I rather hit it with a battery than an expensive monitor.

I think the size of the nanoflash was exceptionally compact and also the atomos which is based around 1 SSD is a perfect size for that purpose. They felt at home on the back of a camera IMHO. I do understand the benefits of the 2 SSD system, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they have to sit side by side, do they? What about stacking them on top, making the recorder a bit fatter?

Look, I don't say that my idea is better. Most people probably like the monitor design better. But for some, like me, the form factor will be a problem to run around with. It will work for me in some cases. On a tripod or if I only have to focus on the screen. It's just a pitty that both Sony's solution and yours in a minor way, is too bulky for my use and those two solutions are the only ones for now if you want to shoot in high quality on the FS700. We're close to a perfect solution for people like me, also in case of the F3 or the F5. The FS700 in recording options, the F3 and F5 in electronic lens communications. But hey, I need a camera to shoot and the best solution around to work for me. I can't wait forever till the next big thing shows up.

I long for the days of film when one could use a camera for decades and only the technology of filmstock basically improved the quality of your movies over the years. And what did you have to invest extra? Not a penny! Your equipment retained much of their value when you tried to resell it. Not so nowadays... Even in the days of DVCAM and Betacam you could rely on it for more than 5 years before you were forced to step over to the next big thing. Now it has become 2 to 3 years I guess. I hope this only leads to the point that camera technology has an absolute high. Like bicycles, it's basically perfect, so what should be changed. Only details, but the rest stays like it is. Can we start focusing again on making films and telling great stories please? And can we start talking about technological simplification. User friendliness and killing dozens of useless codec formats and workflows. We can learn from history you know. :happy:

Cheers,

David

 

[Dan Keaton]

Hi Dan,
Just wanted to say thank you for all your posts in this section and others, I really appreciate the communication and I'm sure many others do too, we obviously don't represent everyone but it's nice to be heard and be able to talk with you about upcoming features on the Odyssey.
Apologies if I misunderstood some of those points earlier, I thought some modes needed specific sized drives as they were faster, thanks for clarifying and confirming 240fps 2k raw only needs two drives of any size, it's a big feature. I did understand and mention that I wasn't sure you could do 240fps 2k compressed as I understood it required more processing than 2k raw, I don't personally think that feature is going to be a deal maker for many, rather it's something that we might have had much more easily if the FS700 had 10 bit out which was why I was mentioning it.

I've personally been looking at the small HD 7.7" OLED monitors and any recorders that can do 60p so that I can record the FS700's 240fps buffered stream so the Odyssey 7 is very interesting to me (as it's effectively both!) and the 7Q will be interesting if I think I will be able to convince clients of the 4k or raw value. I realise the 7Q is the flagship and targeted at the raw, 4k, F5/C500/Alexa crowd but as I think I mentioned on another thread, I wouldn't underestimate the fact you have the cheapest 60p recorder (with great looking monitor), that is of great value to FS700 and FS100 owners.

Thanks,
Toby

Dear Toby,

Thank you.

Our 240 GB, 480 GB and 960 GB SSD's are all the same speed (at least within a very small margin).

I do not know myself if we will be able to support 240 fps compressed. Frankly I doubt it as that is a lot of compression to be performed in a very small amount of time. Compressing each frame, which can be an iterative process, perfectly, in 1/240th of a second is a lot to ask.



Early this week I wanted to see if it was possible for our Odyssey7 to work with the FS700, accepting the compressed 2K and 4K Raw.

We researched it, and we determined that the Sony Decompression module just will not fit into the available resources of the Odyssey7; the Odyssey7Q is required from purely a "Logic Space" and other resources point of view.

It would have been great if we could have supported the FS700 on our lower cost Odyssey7, but regretfully, this is not possible, we tried.


But, the Odyssey7, is capable of accepting HD (1920 x 1080), over HD-SDI or HDMI, both at 60p.

But, the FS700's output is 8-Bits effective in a 10-Bit word, at least it appears so at this time.

Thus the Odyssey7 will be able to record compressed, initially Avid DNxHD, in 8-Bit, at up to 220 Mbps, and later with the other very popular codec.


To be clear, this is a $1,295 US Price solution, plus your SSD, no extra cost recording options will be required.

Thus, $1,295 + $595 = $1,890 for a very capable HD recorder with 240 GB of high performance SSD should be very attractive to some.
For recording compressed HD, this is can provide long recording times. (Prices are US Prices)

I calculate 138 minutes at 1080p60 for one 240 GB SSD, in compressed DNxHD at 220 Megabits per second.

We will know the exact times later.


And the Odyssey7Q will be required to support the 2K Raw, 4K Uncompressed, and the 10-Bit or higher compressed HD.


To be clear, we recommend the Odyssey7Q. It pains us when someone purchases one of our products, then later regrets it if they then need the features of a more advanced unit. On the other hand, for some users, the Odyssey7 offers wonderful, very advanced professional features, at a very low price.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design

 

[Dan Keaton]

Dear David,

I appreciate your point of view.

I personally own a Canon XL H1, and a Sony F3.

I prefer to use tripods whenever possible, as I find it impossible to stay steady for long periods of time.

One mitigating factor is that the monitor can be mounted on top of the FS700 and you can look straight forward, and then to the side or up to the OLED Monitor since the monitor viewing angles are great.

But, there is no doubt that this adds 1.2 pounds.

I wonder when the cameras will be "as good as it can get". I am not holding my breath.



From another viewpoint, it certainly is exciting, as one can, for a historically very low amount of money, obtain very good quality footage today.

One example: how much did it cost to record 2K, at 12-Bits, at 240 fps continuously (over 30 minutes) on May 1st, just 25 days ago?

Or how much did it cost to be able to record 1080p60, in good quality, 25 days ago?

Of how much did it cost to obtain a 7.7" OLED Monitor; one that weighed only 1.2 pounds; one that had all of our professional features, 25 days ago?

(To be fair, I am assuming that the Odyssey7Q is already out, and it is not scheduled until August, 2013.)


Just please understand that we are listening, and take your comments and suggestions seriously.


Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design

 

[keith.uk]

Hi Dan,


This is slightly off-topic for this thread, but as you're here I couldn't resist asking you about the recent Magic Lantern development, which enables RAW on several Canon cameras. I'm sure you're aware of the huge interest in the new software. I'm sure you're also aware that those using it are desperately searching for a way to handle all all of that RAW data. There has been some initial discussion on the ML forum about interfacing the CF slot to an external recorder. I wondered if that would be something that you and your team might want to look at. I think this new market for your products, were you able to find away to connect the Canon cameras to them, would be very significant indeed, especially when you consider that the 5D ii and iii lack a swivel screen, so many users also want an external monitor.


Cheers,
Keith

 

[Dan Keaton]

Dear Keith,

Thank you for your suggestion.

That is an interesting idea.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design

 

[keith.uk]

Dear Keith,
That is an interesting idea.

 

[freshTEA]

It is actually a interesting idea, People are buying 5Dmk3 just because of the raw now I imagine that it is within the same area, compressing raw from fs700 and compressing raw from 5d.. But what do I know.

 

[keith.uk]

It is actually a interesting idea, People are buying 5Dmk3 just because of the raw now I imagine that it is within the same area...

Exactly. I'm sure that if Convergent don't do it someone else will. Personally, I'd prefer an established company like CD to come up with the goods. I'm just not clear what the politics would be -- not sure what Canon will be saying in the back channels.

 

[paulcurtis]

I'm not sure people hacking their 5Ds would be looking to buy a production ready recorder which would be more than half the cost of their camera. The users seem to be more DIY hack fanatics - which is great. I wish Sony opened their firmware, imagine what could be done.

Dan, you mention 2 SSDs for 2K RAW at 240fps which makes sense, but at normal frame frames or even double - would a single SSD be enough for 2K RAW?

cheers
paul

 

[keith.uk]

I'm not sure people hacking their 5Ds would be looking to buy a production ready recorder which would be more than half the cost of their camera. The users seem to be more DIY hack fanatics - which is great.

Some will be DIY fanatics, sure, but I'd hazard a guess that the vast majority are simply film-makers. One of the early Vimeo tests has well over 100,000 plays, and Vimeo is a hangout for film-makers, not DIYers. There's huge interest in this software. Regarding the price, I reckon a RAW Canon DSLR + recorder combination would be attractive to everyone from prosumer upwards.

Cheers,
Keith