I'm sorry, but WHAT??

[nyvz]

@tobyloc

I don't really get what you are asking for. You want 10bit compressed HD? get CD 7Q. You want 4k compressed? CD 7Q is working on doing that as well. You want compressed RAW? Get the Sony IFR5+R5. You want 2k/4k+RAW+10bit+compressed for free? trade in your FS700 for some Blackmagic cameras or a Scarlet, but then you'll have to buy your FS700 back anyway for its sensitivity, ease-of-use, high framerates, DR... etc.

Perhaps you should wait and see how SLog2 peforms at 8bits. Yes 10 is probably better, but with a little tweaking I'm pretty sure it will look fine as long as you dont do overly drastic grading to it. Canon's C-Log looks good in 8bits, especially if you tweak the blacklevels and black gamma in camera. And plenty of films shot on on film with 14-16stops of DR look quite nice on 8bit bluray(or other 8bit deliverable) displayed on 6bit LCD TVs.

I wouldn't dwell on the numbers and specs so much, wait till you see how things look. Slog2 is better than no Slog2.

If you don't like what Sony or CD are doing, don't buy them. But there probably isn't anyone else in the market offering exactly what you want. You can wait around for the "game-changer" that does everything you could want for no money, but you might be waiting for a while.

Oh, and Game of Thrones is shot in 2.8k ARRIRAW. Alexa only does Prores at 1080p, anything higher than that has to be ARRIRAW.

 

[evilthought]

The odessy is another case, and not one i was trying to make,

Once again, odyssey7q would not be possible without Sony's collaboration. Sony was already in contact with CD on FS700 raw (according to Dan, even BEFORE FS700 was released last year). Maybe that was Sony's plan all along? Let thirdy party make the cheaper recorders.

 

[tobyloc]

@noah

Thank you for your post directed at me and giving me the information that Game of Thrones is shot in ARRIRAW, that I didn't know, everything else you asked or pointed out was mostly silly, something you'd misread, information I'd already given in my post or slightly ridiculous.

I'll address some of the silly things: No, I don't expect anything for free, no I'm not looking for a "game changer", I don't even know what that is, yes I'm well aware I don't have to buy things, yes I can make up my mind about stuff. Really, can we not be civil here and make sensible points? Have a conversation? I was quite clear about what I hoped for, why I hoped for it, why I was dissappointed, why despite my dissappointment I will still be holding on and seeing how the products turn out before making any decisions.

Oh yes and to imply that a log profile at 8 bit might be good because 16 stops of DR looks nice on a bluray is to completely misunderstand almost everything about this conversation.

Play nice please, I can ask lots of not very sensible questions too if you'd prefer.

 

[evilthought]

@noah
I'll address some of the silly things: No, I don't expect anything for free, no I'm not looking for a "game changer", I don't even know what that is, yes I'm well aware I don't have to buy things, yes I can make up my mind about stuff. Really, can we not be civil here and make sensible points? Have a conversation? I was quite clear about what I hoped for, why I hoped for it, why I was dissappointed, why despite my dissappointment

Why exactly did you hope for anything different? When FS700 was released it was 8-bit internal and and uncompressed 8-bit out. Sony never promised anything about changing that. In fact, at CES Sony was crystal clear that it is not possible to change internal recording to anything except 8-bit because the hardware inside the camera is designed for 8-bit. It's only CD who came up with the idea last week that they will be able to record 2K RAW as 10 bit 1080p. Sony never promised anything like that.

 

[tobyloc]

Why exactly did you hope for anything different? When FS700 was released it was 8-bit internal and and uncompressed 8-bit out. Sony never promised anything about changing that. In fact, at CES Sony was crystal clear that it is not possible to change internal recording to anything except 8-bit because the hardware inside the camera is designed for 8-bit. It's only CD who came up with the idea last week that they will be able to record 2K RAW as 10 bit 1080p. Sony never promised anything like that.

I explained why I thought at the start and towards the end of my long post. It was nothing to do with CD, people have been talking about the expectations for 10 bit for a while now, not the last week, it was CD that confirmed it wasn't happening. Ever since Sony talked about SLog2 coming and that the FS700 would require a hardware update. Hell even the guy testing the early SLog2, Feiheit, was hoping, asking, preying, expecting, speculating that it would/could be 10 bit even though his prototype upgrade wasn't. The general technicalities are that if you require over 12 stops of DR (the FS700 has a 14 stop DR sensor) in a file, it's going to have real banding problems if you even do a moderate grade if it's not at least 10 bit, the FS700 already has 12 stops in Cinnegamma 4 so it you were applying a log to give it another stop or so it should fall apart. If Sony didn't mention S-log, if the F3 wasn't being discontinued (an 8 bit internal camera with 10 bit out), if they weren't mysterious about the technicalities that they'd offer, if the hardware (not just firmware that everyone was expecting) didn't come out of the blue then it wouldn't have been on anyone's radar at all. Playing with Freiheit's slog2 files, shot on the FS700 at 8 bit, I think it's a toned down version of SLog2, not the close to 14 bit version you'd find on the F5. But yes we'll see, some people have mentioned they're still hoping for a 10 bit surprise, I'm not very optimisitc anymore, but that was obvious

 

[SergeSmArt]

I started with sony, i've had a good time with sony, but they've fallen off the radar for me, mostly the form factors pushed me away, but reading about what people will have to do to get 4k out of the 700 is just plain silly...

let me see if i've got this strait, and please correct me if i don't, remember, i'm off the radar: not only do you need an external recorder which costs not much less than the 700 itself, but you also need an interface just to let that recorder and the camera talk to one another? and the two together literally costing more than the camera itself?? do i have that right? because someone is taking crazy pills, and i was pretty sure doc didn't let me have any more of those.


i Feel bad for the 700 users, it's obviously a fantastic camera, but sony was rather unforthcoming and borderline misleading when they were advertising that it would be 4k capable/ready. had they told buyers up front about these extra costs, i think many would have ran for the hills. might as well go for a battle tested scarlet!

and now having black magic showing that there's no voodoo involved in having such abilities built into the camera, i just don't see what some of the bigger players are thinking they can get away with. two different beasts and abilities, but still, nonsensical

Hi, Darren!... Why do you have to "fill bad about FS-700 users" ? ... No one push me TO BUY "Sony Set for 4K RAW" ... and in my own practice I don't see a reason to do it! - most of my clients do NOT need even a current image quality of 1080p from FS-700 ... BUT (!!!) What I see as my BEST option is to send my FS-700 to Sony Service and pay something around $300-$500 for firmware AND hardware update.. that's it! Nothing more! ( and I heard Sony trying make it even less ) ...

So...IF ( and WHEN ) ..some of my potential clients ASK me to shoot 4K or 2K, 16 bit linear RAW (!!!) with up to 240fps - I WILL BE ABLE to RENT "Sony 4K RAW Set" from Adorama !! rogar-Happy(DBG):..

..and that's is seems WHAT Sony had in mind when they decide the price for they 4K RAW option: Not so many people really need TO OWN it !!! but MANY of us will be able to RENT it... and record at list 2K RAW with up to 240 fps ...

Can you ever will be able to do it with your C-100 ??

.. a few words about cameras in general:

1. Black Magic Production Camera main MINUS is a "touch screen" operation with it... - how you can change parameters if you need to use camera ON SHOULDER RIG and using Zacuto of Alphatron EVF with it??
( Global Shutter is the BEST option in it )

2. Red Scarlet is a joke from my point of view, as it's using HUGE, 5K sensor ( with wasting expensive batteries for cooling it ) without actual RECORDING from it - it's use only a small PART of the sensor ..( unless you shoot pictures with 12fps ) ..a specially of you go to "60 fps 1080" and "120 fps 1K" rogar-BigGrin(DBG) .. .and you always have to remember what lenses you need to change to get the same FOV when you change the speed ....

3. Canon C-500 for $26000 without UNIVERSAL MOUNT option and without internal RAW-recorder is also a joke: not every PL lenses will work on EF mount even with adapter...

4. Form-factor of F5 / F55 cameras seems much better than Canon C-100/300/500 cameras ... - not everyone prefer small and light cameras ... a specially when you need to use them with BIG lenses

...so .... I think we all have to WAIT and see - HOW good will be 4K/2K RAW from FS-700 and from Black Magic 4K Production cameras, before make final opinion about them!!!

P.S. I pre-order BMPC anyway ... even now I do more of my PAINTING than shooting videos ..would you like to see it some day ?

 

[Kraut69]

"1. Black Magic Production Camera main MINUS is a "touch screen" operation with it... - how you can change parameters if you need to use camera ON SHOULDER RIG and using Zacuto of Alphatron EVF with it??
( Global Shutter is the BEST option in it ) " I don't have any gripes about using the Black Magic in a shoulder rig. Buttons on the side of the camera or on the touch screen, you have to stop shooting for a moment. Just wish there were more menu options on the Black Magic menu--like there is NO CUSTOM WHITE BALANCE"

 

[nyvz]

Oh yes and to imply that a log profile at 8 bit might be good because 16 stops of DR looks nice on a bluray is to completely misunderstand almost everything about this conversation.

Play nice please, I can ask lots of not very sensible questions too if you'd prefer.

I didn't mean to offend, sorry if my words did not seem sensible t. I was just responding to what seemed like a bit of a rant. I agree we should say what we think, but I do find people to get a bit caught up talking about their hopes and wishes for imaginary cameras. Normally it wouldn't bother me, but I've noticed that the more cameras and features various manufacturers give us, the more people complain that they aren't getting what they want. I admit I wish for a perfect camera at an unbeatable price as well, but I know we want features X Y Z but each camera will only ever have X and Y, and you'll probably always have to buy another camera to get Z.

As for log at 8bit, it's all relative, and it's all about how you use it. If you want to tell me all log curves at 8bits are completely useless and unusable I would probably have to disagree with you. I understand you want more bits, and Sony/CD is giving you a way to get it just not the way you wanted. So we have to make 8bit work or use their imperfect options. I think slog2 may have its place, even at 8bits, don't you think?

The general technicalities are that if you require over 12 stops of DR (the FS700 has a 14 stop DR sensor) in a file, it's going to have real banding problems if you even do a moderate grade if it's not at least 10 bit, the FS700 already has 12 stops in Cinnegamma 4 so it you were applying a log to give it another stop or so it should fall apart.

Could you cite a source for that? Why would 15% more DR cause 8bit to "fall apart"? And what does that mean? Cinegamma4 seems to already use close to 14stops and I have not had much issue with it myself. From the test it looked like Slog hardly gives much extra DR, maybe 0.5-1 stop of highlights, which is only about 5% more information, hard to imagine things falling apart because of that. Yes more bits are better, but I'll happily take Slog2 as an option even at only 8bits.

 

[Simon Shasha]

Cinegamma4 seems to already use close to 14stops

14-stops? Can you please post an example of this.

I think S-Log2 in 8-bit is nice, but ultimately a pretty bad decision on Sony's part - grading extremely flat 8-bit footage has never been a good idea, and is simply not logical. If Sony released an upgrade that allowed S-Log2 to be recorded in true 10-bit, not 8-bit in a 10-bit wrapper, then I guarantee FS700 sales will go through the roof.

 

[evilthought]

14-stops? Can you please post an example of this.

I think S-Log2 in 8-bit is nice, but ultimately a pretty bad decision on Sony's part - grading extremely flat 8-bit footage has never been a good idea, and is simply not logical. If Sony released an upgrade that allowed S-Log2 to be recorded in true 10-bit, not 8-bit in a 10-bit wrapper, then I guarantee FS700 sales will go through the roof.

Can we give this crap up now? Yes it has been confirmed that the camera can't do 10-bit internally or via SDI with third-party recorders. It does 12-bit RAW with either Sony recorder or with Odyssey7q after the upgrade. Odyssey7q will be able to use that raw to record 10-bit 1080 video. The hardware in the camera is not capable of doing 10-bit internally. This was made crystal clear by Sony at NAB several months.

Not only Sony never ever promised 10-bit internal recording, but they said it IT WON'T HAPPEN at NAB when they were asked about it.

 

[epsom salt]

I also understand where Darren is coming from, like freshTEA I was also really hoping for 10 bit compressed out, it almost seemed like a given, Sony were bringing S-log2 to the FS700 with a hardware update and discontinuing the F3, maybe they even remembered they used to offer 10 bit out on high end consumer cameras years ago. They have to be upgrading the output to 10 bit as 12+ stops of DR in a log to 8 bits doesn't make sense, right? Wrong, both Convergent Design and now the Sony announcement themselves have shown it's going to stay at 8 bit which is baffling, I don't really undestand why they're adding S-log as the raw doesn't use log. So this paid hardware update at $300 will give you 12 bit raw, the Odyssey will have to use their raw licence with Sony (costing you $1500) to convert the 12 bit raw into 10 bit compressed for you and presumably adding a log to that to compress the DR, it's an utterly unneccesary, wasteful, full circle, expensive process just to get a small update in image quality, an extra 2 really important bits. I guess those who just want 10 bit compressed HD have to ask ourselves how much we're prepared to pay. Regarding prices for all this, they're pretty much all out now so lets look at what the options are:


Current Sony FS700 = $7500
8 bit internal with 12 stop dynamic range, quite flat profiles, 8 bit out

Sony hardware upgrade
Gives you 8 bit internal with perhaps extra 0.5 stop dynamic range with S-log2 (based on Freiheit's tests), still 8 bit out, this is probably beyond the sensible limits of 8 bit, s-log2 was designed for 10 bit+, I can only think they've held back on the log, if they'd made it 10 bit it probably could have used the full 14 stops of the sensor, imagine that

OR the option to record the raw output, there are currently two recording options scheduled for July/August

Sony Route, minimum setup:

$2,000 (not fully confirmed price) - Sony HXR-IFR5 recording interface
$5,350 Sony - AXS-R5 Recorder
$1,800 Sony - 512GB Memory Card for AXS System
$550 Sony AXS-CR1 USB 3.0 Card Reader
$500 conservative V-mount battery and charger setup, can take off if you own already
TOTAL=$10,200

I think many would agree that they didn't expect that price from Sony. It puts the total with camera to $17,700, that's over a $1000 more than an F5 and is in Epic-X mysterium territory. Yes the Epic doesn't do X/Y/Z the F5 doesn't do X/Y/Z but the FS700 doesn't do things compared to them and it will fall short in terms of build, useability and speed of editing and have you seen the FS700 with the interface and recorder and battery on?! http://files.dvinfo.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/NAB13-P1010550.jpg

I personally want sensible, good, 10 bit compressed HD, to get that with an FS700 going the Sony route costs over $10k and won't even give me compressed!

So, the only other current option, the Convergent Design Odyssey7Q:

$300 for the hardware update (you don't have to pay this if you buy a Sony recorder)
$2,295 Odyssey 7Q (being from UK I will pay a fair amount of shipping and A LOT of tax importing this, I'm leaving that off
$695 or $4390 240GB SSD or 2x$960GB SSDs (see total)
$1495 FS700 support (this is effectively the passed on licence Sony ask CD to pay for the privilege of unweaving their raw stream, thanks Sony! You can pay this as rental per day if you want at $75 a day, personally I think that's bonkers, will I use this recording mechanism for more than 20 days in it's life - yes!)
$100 battery and charger, not sure what it takes but in fairness I should add something on
TOTAL=$4885 or $8580 (I believe some modes require two of the high speed 960GB SSDs working in tandem, for instance the 240fps 2k raw mode, not sure on this though)


So yes, I think it's fair to be upset with Sony if you're not planning on shooting raw 4k all the time, they shouldn't have mentioned S-log and a hardware update with mysterious options if they weren't updating the output to something more professional. I would like a reasonably priced solution, or just different priced solution between 4k raw and 8 mbit HD please! One is for consumer point and shoots, a delivery not editing format, the other is so high end even multi million pound films and TV shows aren't always shot in raw or 4k, Game of Thrones is shot in Prores 2.8k I believe, not Arriraw!

Will I ever want 4k or raw? Yes! Do I need it for most things? No. Do the above prices and options fill me with happiness and sunshine? No.

I will wait to see what CD do with their compressed conversions, maybe somehow they can escape the raw $1500 cost if the final output isn't raw. But bear in mind the FS700 is a high speed camera in my opinion and because the HD output isn't going above 8 bit, even CDs most high end offering may not be able to give you compressed 240fps 10 bit HD, it can just do raw at 240fps but compressed requires more processing power and raw I believe skips out on the 8 second buffer process so you won't even have that mode. We shall see.

i coudn't agree with your sentiment more. to me personally, when a company advertises a product as a "4k ready" machine... well quite frankly the fs700 seems pretty unprepared for the task. calling those who believed the specs, roadmap and sony promises, "never happy" or having "misconceptions of a few" is a complete cop out. to say that this camera is not as bad or better than other cameras on the market is also a giant cop out. this is what the camera company advertised and now they are adding different steps and hardware that will cost those who believed more and more money.
i bought this camera after seeing the images and reading
1. 4k raw ready via 3g/sdi port with future firmware upgrade and r5 sony recorder.
2. slow motion 240fps 1080p camera

since i've bought the cam they've added
1. hardware upgrade- $300-$500 (+whatever jobs/opportunities i miss during my camera's trip back to sony)
2. Sony HXR-IFR5 interface- around $2000

the ads are stlil up on b&h if you'd like to take a look. and then bang, a hidden extra 2-3gs just got added to the price tag for 4k. i am not asking for anything for free and neither is any other upset fs700 owners.... i'd just like what was advertised when i took out my loan for this camera. to say consumers are never happy is just plain not true. we are very happy about things all the time. it's usually a byproduct of getting what was advertised for a really good price. does the 5d mk2 or dvx100 ring any bells?
what some people don't want is exactly what sony has done so far. which is create a useful tool and promise it will do more than it does. then take their time releasing the full functions of it while adding extra hardware and thousands of dollars to price tag to get those promised specs. why is that so hard to understand and why are those who are upset about this lack of business ethics met with so much scoffing?

 

[freshTEA]

Can we give this crap up now? Yes it has been confirmed that the camera can't do 10-bit internally or via SDI with third-party recorders. It does 12-bit RAW with either Sony recorder or with Odyssey7q after the upgrade. Odyssey7q will be able to use that raw to record 10-bit 1080 video. The hardware in the camera is not capable of doing 10-bit internally. This was made crystal clear by Sony at NAB several months.

Not only Sony never ever promised 10-bit internal recording, but they said it IT WON'T HAPPEN at NAB when they were asked about it.

To be honest the internal recording I had veery low hopes for but I did get a little disappointed at it being 8-bit in a 10-bit wrapper out of the camera, I thought that was one of the reasons why they did hardware upgrade. But now Im decent again since it seems odyssey 7q are taking care of it. It might even be a business strategy from their part so that F5 get highlighted to be more of a complete package without as many external fees/gear.

And if you look at the competition, sure you need to spend quite a lot to get there but it is still under the amount the f5 would cost you and on the fs700 you get even higher frame rate, 2k raw + 4K, plus you might even be able to get 12-bit compressed now.. And we are still under the price of the sony 5f. I can only speak for myself but for me it looks pretty bright, It looks like the fs700 will hold its grounds for years to come with the specs it gets with the odyssey 7q. its not cheap but at least for me there is no competition with it as it stands now.. be able to use all my canon glases with the speedbooster that grands me an extra stop is a big plus for me as well.

 

[evilthought]

It might even be a business strategy from their part so that F5 get highlighted to be more of a complete package without as many external fees/gear.

Or it could be what Sony actually said at NAB: the hardware in the camera cannot do 10-bit video, period. Why is that so difficult to understand?

As for the upgrade in hardware, that is something very cheap and very low labor cost as they are offering it for $300. They are not going to replace the entire imaging pipeline (and processor) just for $300.

 

[tobyloc]

Can we give this crap up now? Yes it has been confirmed that the camera can't do 10-bit internally or via SDI with third-party recorders. It does 12-bit RAW with either Sony recorder or with Odyssey7q after the upgrade. Odyssey7q will be able to use that raw to record 10-bit 1080 video. The hardware in the camera is not capable of doing 10-bit internally. This was made crystal clear by Sony at NAB several months.

Not only Sony never ever promised 10-bit internal recording, but they said it IT WON'T HAPPEN at NAB when they were asked about it.

Can we be polite here? 'giving up this crap' appears to be telling other people to discuss what you want them to discuss. Whether Sony have said previously that the FS700 can only ever be 8 bit internally due to it's AVCHD based hardware is irrelevant as we've been discussing, because Sony came out of the blue to tell us they are upgrading the internal hardware. Does that mean they promised us 10 bit? No! But it gave some of us hope and it introduced the possibility. When the person testing SLog2 on the modified FS700 suggested to the engineers it should be 10 bit they didn't tell him "no, that's impossible", they were obviously looking into what they could do. The F3 does 8 bit internally to a specific 8 bit limited codec, that doesn't mean it can't do 10 bit externally, in fact that's exactly what it does. Older Sony cameras used to do 8 bit internally and 10 bit externally, they didn't even have log. Neither you nor I know exactly what hardware would need to be replaced to make it 8 bit internal and 10 bit external, I find it impossible to believe 8 bits are so hardcoded throughout every board that it's not possible to change the output while keeping AVCHD. I imagine if 10 bit definitely isn't coming, that that was more of a business decision rather than a technical decision and that's what I've been talking about, the missed opportunity.

No-one expected the FS700, an upgrade on the FS100 to be 240fps, that was a completely innovative and an unexpected hardware upgrade and was and still is amazing, I love mine and have no interest in selling it while it's still unique in this price range. Slog2 and a hardware upgrade pointed towards 10 bit out, the F3 version of SLog has less dynamic range than SLog2 and grading that 8 bit image is considered tricky:

"The dynamic range will be exactly the same for S-Log recordings on to SxS cards as it will be to an external device, whether it’s 4:4:4 RGB or 4:2:2. However the SxS recordings are only going to be 8 bit 35 Mb/s, so when you grade these back to a sensible looking image you may see banding getting introduced." - Alistair Chapman talking about the F3 and S-log, (noteS-log2 has more dynamic range the S-log)

It very much looks like 10 bit isn't happening and I, along with perhaps others think Sony missed an opportunity there to carry on that innovative process and step up to the competition under $10k. I'm not suggesting I hate Sony, I really like them and my camera, I'm not suggesting anyone sell anything, I'm not trying to badmouth anyone. I just think as much as HFRs are the USP of this camera and are amazing, most people want to shoot 24/25p most of the time, what is Sony's offering under $10k for that now? It's a boxy $7,500 8 bit 4:2:2 with a $500-1000 recorder attached, that is good, but it's starting to look dated, like Canon's offerings are looking dated though they are more ergonomic and a sharper 1080p. I've got a pocket BMC on order and a hacked 5D3, more people are getting BMCs, the M43 version and maybe the 4k version is coming soon etc etc. if I have a project in 3 month's time that's to be shot in 25p that's not in the dark I might use a $1000 point and shoot looking thing because it might give me better image quality than my FS700 and a hacked camera as backup because the quality is much better. That isn't a good situation for Sony if I'm anything like a typical owner. Sony should realise with the F3 going the FS700 is their best bastion of indie film making camera left in the sub $10k bracket and they could have made it stand up to the competition more strongly as well as give it some amazing high end, much more expensive 4k/2k/raw options. I know 1000+ colour levels holds up to well to grading (and log requires grading), I know 256 colour levels don't. I just think they missed a quick win here that wouldn't affect F5 sales, I think it's okay to discuss that in a forum and it seems entirely on topic in this threadf, if you don't want to discuss that you don't have to!

 

[freshTEA]

Or it could be what Sony actually said at NAB: the hardware in the camera cannot do 10-bit video, period. Why is that so difficult to understand?

As for the upgrade in hardware, that is something very cheap and very low labor cost as they are offering it for $300. They are not going to replace the entire imaging pipeline (and processor) just for $300.

I said 10-bit out, not internal, period

 

[SKYLIKE]

Wether it can or it can not. The fact is SLOG2 in 8bit is kind of senseless. Its like doing a step forward and backwards at the same time.

 

[nyvz]

14-stops? Can you please post an example of this.

http://provideocoalition.com/images/uploads/Arts_FS700_Presentation.031_.jpg
http://provideocoalition.com/aadams/story/cameras_sony_fs700_dynamic_range_presentation/P2

Wether it can or it can not. The fact is SLOG2 in 8bit is kind of senseless. Its like doing a step forward and backwards at the same time.

How is 8bit a step backwards from 8bit? And how do you know SLog2 in 8bit is senseless?

 

[Dermot]

I've graded three things shot on the C300 in LogC, 8bit to the internal card... one web promo for Intrawest and two television movies for Hallmark

LogC & 8bit works just fine, no real world probs from the Log & 8bit banding, at least when compared to the issues caused by compression artifacts from the internal recorder + the ugly noisy mess in low light... an external recorder would have been a great help, both the DoP's are choseing not to use the C300 again.

I have no doubts that the 8bit Slog will be just fine, and the limitations will the the codec if you are shooting to the internal recorder.

d

 

[eliomys]

@ tobyloc, freshtea, skylike

I completely agree. But as long as we don't have the complete new specs of the updated FS700, we can keep guessing and hoping or be disappointed. There is no detailed information about what is changed by the hardware update and what was added in the menu by the firmware yet and how we are supposed to work with the S-Log2 on the FS700. Without a separate monitor output with in-camera Look Up Table (LUT) and EI, next to a recording output, you will need a monitor or EVF which can work with a LUT to judge your image properly and not having to do it on a overly flat and overexposed image. Same thing counts for the RAW images. It also needs a LUT. It was really well implemented on the F3 and perfected with the newer (even free) firmware updates. The sensor specs of the FS700 resemble the F5 and F55 better than the F3. And the choice for S-Log2 with a fixed iso value of 2000 confirms that. Mistakes have always been corrected by Sony, that's why I'm pretty happy with them for over a decade now. The many Sony cameras I have used never failed me once, what I can't say for other brands. Sony usually doesn't release things that don't work properly. That's why the Sony representative I spoke to last week, was positive on the 10 bit (not being 8 bit) externally to make the S-Log2 work properly. That's what we all know if you used it before. So even if he was wrong, there is a consensus that it won't work like it was created for.

So my point is that we should wait untill a working updated FS700 is being demonstrated, which will be soon as I understood. At least one in Japan and one on the Cinegear exhibition end of next week. If people are planning to go, I would advise to get as much info as possible and share it with us.

 

[freshTEA]

Eliomys
I agree, dont know if there's been an missunderstanding. Im not upset.. And dont understand how i made it sound that way. I stated that i was expecting the internal codec to stay unchanged. I was hoping for 10-bit to an external recorder (without raw) but as I said before CD are saying that they are going to make a solution to this so im all good