resonance_image
Active member
Announced today no details yet but great news for current owners of the A-Cam and for those of you who wanted to buy one.
www.ikonoskop.com
www.ikonoskop.com
Ikonoskop back in business under new management
- Thread starter resonance_image
- Start date
rogar-SunGlass(DBGresonance_image
Active member
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Great news!
Now, if the new management can, they should consider upgrading the dII. It's showing its age, especially with all the new competition that has come out since the dII came on the scene.
Do away with the expensive proprietary memory cards. Aren't there cards today that can handle the raw video? XQD cards, perhaps?
An OLED EVF, XLR inputs, HDMI out, correct the timecode issues. Record in a more NLE & storage friendly codec, along with raw.
Try to make the camera more mainstream, hence more sales. More sales, less money issues with the company. I realize it's a niche camera, but that approach hasn't worked very well so far.
But keep the small form and excellent images it creates!
And, of course, make it cheaper. :tongue:
I guess that's asking a lot for a company that's still near bankruptcy.
Now, if the new management can, they should consider upgrading the dII. It's showing its age, especially with all the new competition that has come out since the dII came on the scene.
Do away with the expensive proprietary memory cards. Aren't there cards today that can handle the raw video? XQD cards, perhaps?
An OLED EVF, XLR inputs, HDMI out, correct the timecode issues. Record in a more NLE & storage friendly codec, along with raw.
Try to make the camera more mainstream, hence more sales. More sales, less money issues with the company. I realize it's a niche camera, but that approach hasn't worked very well so far.
But keep the small form and excellent images it creates!
And, of course, make it cheaper. :tongue:
I guess that's asking a lot for a company that's still near bankruptcy.
resonance_image
Active member
I'd anticipate some new pricing options but doubt any major redesigns for quite awhile. Adding all or some of these things you're suggesting would dramatically alter the form factor. To hit the enthusiast market like Black Magic does they'd have to move production out of Sweden first and to hit the larger commercial production market they'd have to offer a S35 version with all connectivity that larger productions expect. Outsourcing the manufacturing of the camera may have the most dramatic effect on the cost of the camera in the short term.
combatentropy
Veteran
I've thought the same thing, but it's amazing how up to date it still is. (It's amazing how ponderously slow tech is moving).
Cards. To this day few cards support 2K RAW at 30 fps (712 Mbps or 89 MB/sec. or "608x"). You have to look hard for the fine print that explicitly states the "mininimum sustained write speed," which often is half of the maximum write speed, which often is half of the read speed. But I think you can use the very best CompactFlash cards. But then again, they probably cost as much as Ikonoskop's cards.
Sensor. It's hard to find a better sensor that you can buy, at least if you make global shutter a requirement (as I do). TrueSense (formerly Kodak imaging group) hasn't come out with a sensor that has much better frame rate and dynamic range. CMOSIS's sensors also only have about 10 stops of dynamic range. Sony's F55 finally meets or exceeds all the boxes in my list (at least 11 or 12 stops, at least 60 fps, global shutter, Super35), but I don't think they're selling them to third parties. I'm curious what BlackMagic is putting in its 4K camera, though.
Cards. To this day few cards support 2K RAW at 30 fps (712 Mbps or 89 MB/sec. or "608x"). You have to look hard for the fine print that explicitly states the "mininimum sustained write speed," which often is half of the maximum write speed, which often is half of the read speed. But I think you can use the very best CompactFlash cards. But then again, they probably cost as much as Ikonoskop's cards.
Sensor. It's hard to find a better sensor that you can buy, at least if you make global shutter a requirement (as I do). TrueSense (formerly Kodak imaging group) hasn't come out with a sensor that has much better frame rate and dynamic range. CMOSIS's sensors also only have about 10 stops of dynamic range. Sony's F55 finally meets or exceeds all the boxes in my list (at least 11 or 12 stops, at least 60 fps, global shutter, Super35), but I don't think they're selling them to third parties. I'm curious what BlackMagic is putting in its 4K camera, though.
Although BMD hasn't confirmed it, the sensor is probably the CMOSIS CMV12000.
combatentropy
Veteran
Then I would look for "weird motion blur in the highlights." BlackMagic claims 12 stops of range, CMOSIS 10, unless you turn on high-dynamic range modes. Samuel H reports none are without artifacts.
For what it's worth, and not to get too far off topic, the dimensions do not match. BlackMagic says 21.12mm x 11.88mm. CMOSIS doesn't publish the dimensions, but Apertus says they're 22.8mm x 16.9mm. So maybe BlackMagic isn't using the CMOSIS CMV12000.
For what it's worth, and not to get too far off topic, the dimensions do not match. BlackMagic says 21.12mm x 11.88mm. CMOSIS doesn't publish the dimensions, but Apertus says they're 22.8mm x 16.9mm. So maybe BlackMagic isn't using the CMOSIS CMV12000.
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I think that Ikonoskop is wise to keep their proprietary media and perhaps find ways to make it less expensive. You don't hear much about data issues or dropped frames or media failure on their forum.
The last round of firmware updates before the shutdown got them the best color science yet and higher quality clean SDI output that could be recorded for video work. But asking for cameras like the A-cam and Digital Bolex to be downgraded to yet another me to video camera reflects a misunderstanding of their process.
Uncompressed DNG raw is about getting as close to direct capture of every last bit of image data the sensor can produce with absolutely the cleanest minimal processing and data path between sensor and recording medium. No encoding other than the monitor path, no compression, no noise reduction beyond optimizing analog gain and AD conversion. Nothing but the purest raw image data possible. After that what you make of it is strictly up to the film maker.
This is a digital alternative to shooting 16mm negative film, not a video camera.
The last round of firmware updates before the shutdown got them the best color science yet and higher quality clean SDI output that could be recorded for video work. But asking for cameras like the A-cam and Digital Bolex to be downgraded to yet another me to video camera reflects a misunderstanding of their process.
Uncompressed DNG raw is about getting as close to direct capture of every last bit of image data the sensor can produce with absolutely the cleanest minimal processing and data path between sensor and recording medium. No encoding other than the monitor path, no compression, no noise reduction beyond optimizing analog gain and AD conversion. Nothing but the purest raw image data possible. After that what you make of it is strictly up to the film maker.
This is a digital alternative to shooting 16mm negative film, not a video camera.
The problem is not the camera, especially now that the raw cinematography market is maturing and expanding. The problem was IMO a combination of inadequate marketing and a lousy European economy over the last few years. It was the best little camera nobody ever heard of. They got more publicity after they shut down than any time before.
It would be great if they can take advantage of advances in current gen electronics to build the camera more economically. They don't have to sell all that many cameras to succeed.
In its latest state of development it can be used with an external recorder for decent quality video, but that is not what it was made for.
Same sensor. Both have 5.5- x 5.5-μm pixels. The CMV12000 is a 4:3 4,096 x 3,072 (22.5- x 16.9-mm) sensor; the BMD 4K camera uses a 16:9 3,840 x 2,160 (21.12- x 11.88-mm) UHD crop.
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I think it's going the other way. The more people try cutting with 10bit 422 or 444 prores log, etc. after being in the DSLR 8bit world, the more they dont see the need for raw files. Their camera had issues because it isnt that great in low light and has a small sensor, on top of having huge issues with memory and no compressed options. While many of us don't care too much about either of those issues for certain projects, the dirty and overwhelmingly amateur market perception is 35mm and 10,000iso or nothing. Raw is the last thing on their minds. Red is already suffering in many markets due to C300, BMC and F55's and it will get worse for them the better the other guys get with their codecs.
dustwaterwindfire
Active member
Its all in ones own opinions. I personally plan on never shooting compressed codecs for the kind of work I do ever again. Thats me but im guessing there are more people who have seen the light too. A-CAM is an amazing unique camera (both in footage and ergonomics) Its a breath of fresh air a sea of similar dslr-ish cameras (to me red even falls into this sameness). I choose intentionally to set my look apart from the masses and the A-CAM gives me an edge for that. Is is a magic bean? no. Just a great tool that has a more organic look to it.
I think the Ikonoskop footage is very pretty. But I don't think lack of marketing was their problem (BMCC didn't spent millions on marketing and got plenty of buzz), it was the price point of the camera and all the existing competition.
When you add expensive proprietary memory cards on top of a 10,000 price tag there's a lot of competition at that price point, including BMCC now with a global shutter, or Canon C series with built in ND, and at 10k you're getting into Red Scarlet territory.
http://nofilmschool.com/2013/06/aaton-transvideo-ikonoskop-camera/
Prores or not a compressed video codec is still a compressed video codec. Raw is not going to displace video. It is going to be the go to acquisition format for those that would otherwise shoot film. Prores can't touch it. Log compressed video can't touch it. There is nothing like having total access to the full linear DR of the sensor with no restrictions. Even lossy compressed raw formats like Red and Sony aren't of the same quality as full uncompressed or mathematically lossless compressed DNG. It is the emerging format for visual artists who value highly refined imagery above all. Personally I'm over shooting video for creative projects. These cameras aren't about mass market anything. They are about a valid alternative for markets that aren't being served.
I guess Panasonic and Sony should dump their expensive but bullet proof reliable P2 and SXS media too? Take a read through the forums for BMC cameras and you will see thread after thread about the unreliability of off the shelf media.
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petermullett
Well-known member
Couldn't agree more Razz16mm......well said.
Simplicity is the A-Cam DII's main attraction, it certainly was for me anyway. Coming from what seems to be a lifetime of shooting with my S16 Aatons the DII is the first and only digital camera that has made me comfortable in it's use, and the image quality that is obtainable from this camera is much much more filmic than anything else anywhere near it's pricing.
For me it really doesn't need a lot more improvement, no more add ons, no more expansion of capabilities. I would however dump the live video in tiny side lcd, changing it to simply a camera data informational screen as in some film cameras, ( Aaton again ), and the Alexa. Some ongoing issues with the DII can be fixed I am sure with firmware upgrades that I believe are already underway or in planning, but essentially the camera is just fine the way it is and I for one couldn't be happier that Ikonoskop is back and being run by people who own, use and love the camera.