Idea for solving missing ND problem.

[cheezweezl]

Tell me if I'm nuts...

I got my fotodiox nex-eos adapter yesterday. The adapter is pretty big to make up for the flange distance required for eos lenses. I'm thinking of mounting a filter ring inside the adapter that I could screw an nd onto when needed. I would probably just use a uv filter and take the glass out. Then secure the ring inside the adapter with jb weld or silicone or something.

Anybody see any potential problems with this?

Another thing I could do is just hard mount a fader nd inside the adapter, then have one adapter with, and one without the fader. Basically one indoor and one outdoor adapter.

 

[Postmaster]

What´s wrong with a matte box and a set of nice NDs?
Most professionals have a rail system and a matte box on the camera anyway (and for good reasons, I might say).
Why not doing the most obvious thing and just use them?

Frank

 

[morgan_moore]

because a quick lens change - say from the 17-55 to 80-200 nikkors that Im planning is a PITA in fast shooting environs with a MB

 

[ectobuilder]

Tell me if I'm nuts...

I got my fotodiox nex-eos adapter yesterday. The adapter is pretty big to make up for the flange distance required for eos lenses. I'm thinking of mounting a filter ring inside the adapter that I could screw an nd onto when needed. I would probably just use a uv filter and take the glass out. Then secure the ring inside the adapter with jb weld or silicone or something.

Anybody see any potential problems with this?

Another thing I could do is just hard mount a fader nd inside the adapter, then have one adapter with, and one without the fader. Basically one indoor and one outdoor adapter.

This guy has a good suggestion (Super 35mm Seminar video):
http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/video/videon.do

 

[nyvz]

I'm considering just always leaving my fader nd on, since iso800 is often overkill even for interiors... Otherwise taking it on and off between int/ext shots isnt really that big of a deal.

 

[cheezweezl]

What´s wrong with a matte box and a set of nice NDs?
Most professionals have a rail system and a matte box on the camera anyway (and for good reasons, I might say).
Why not doing the most obvious thing and just use them?

Frank

I have a mattebox and a set of nd. Fine for when you're on set but not so handy when you're just out shooting or if you're stealing shots in the city.

 

[Duke M.]

Anybody see any potential problems with this?

Taking the adapter and lens off over and over is going to take as much time or more than swinging the mattebox out of the way to change lenses once in awhile. You'll change the ND filter strength more often than a lens if you're using zoom lenses.

 

[Postmaster]

I have a mattebox and a set of nd. Fine for when you're on set but not so handy when you're just out shooting or if you're stealing shots in the city.

because a quick lens change - say from the 17-55 to 80-200 nikkors that Im planning is a PITA in fast shooting environs with a MB

LOL - everybody seems to be into "ultrafast and light - run and gun - steeling shots - don´t have no time - in the subway - environs only these days.

I wonder how you guys do get your shots?
I mean, if you have no time (let´s say 2 minutes max) to change a matte box, filter and lens, how long does it take you, to get your light setup and framing? Or are you shooting everything without lights, scrims, flags and all handheld/shoulder?

Frank

 

[cheezweezl]

Frank,

I never said I don't have time to change an ND filter. It's just that there are times that carrying around a fully rigged camera and extra cases for filters etc, is not desirable, or not possible. Besides, for full production style shoots, I'm usually renting a RED. This cam, for me, is my portable, guerilla, run and gun, low budget, call it whatever you want camera. It's basically replacing my 7D and kinda taking the place of my EX1.

Are you saying that you never just go shoot in available light? Some beautiful things can happen with proper planning and thinking on your feet. If the only way you shoot is with a fully rigged camera, full crew, permits, a huge g&e truck, etc., then that's fine. But I then would ask you why you would choose a $5000 camera to do it rather than renting a RED or Alexa or whatever. Not that the FS100 couldn't produce great results, just that if money is being spent to put on a production like what we're talking about, why not go for a little more quality since it's soooo cheap to rent?

 

[imag]

I'm planning on going the Lee Filters route. It allows up to 4 filters and clips on quickly to the adaptor on the lens. Each lens will have its own adapter (they are all different sizes anyway).

Advantages: it's smaller, faster, and cheaper than a matte box. It also preserves the ability to use good filters, rotate polas, and locate gradients.

 

[cheezweezl]

Taking the adapter and lens off over and over is going to take as much time or more than swinging the mattebox out of the way to change lenses once in awhile. You'll change the ND filter strength more often than a lens if you're using zoom lenses.

Not really. I mean, as light changes, you will have to possibly adjust ND. I assume you're talking about cheap zooms. Speaking for myself, I have constant aperture zooms only. So if I shoot at the same stop with all my lenses, and the light stays the same, I will rarely touch the ND....

 

[morgan_moore]

LOL - everybody seems to be into "ultrafast and light - run and gun - steeling shots - don´t have no time - in the subway - environs only these days.

I wonder how you guys do get your shots?
I mean, if you have no time (let´s say 2 minutes max) to change a matte box, filter and lens, how long does it take you, to get your light setup and framing? Or are you shooting everything without lights, scrims, flags and all handheld/shoulder?

Frank

Well its not just about shooting indy crap in subways

You are obviously from a structured cinematography background - a fne place to be

In fact the place where you should probably use an F3 or a Red because it would minimally impact in overall budget

The FS100 is more of a budget camera

Maybe for the corporate or wedding shooter

Now if you are shooting a wedding the bride will come out of the car and into a church, defo an point where you will need an ND swap

and that ND swap needs to happen really really fast unless you are going to mess up the proceedings

Now such a shooter should probably use a camera such as an EX1 - which apart from missing 'the cine look' is eminently suitable for the job

however certain shooters like myself dont want to do such jobs 'good enough' we want to bring that cine and low light facility to the work

Here the FS is the perfect tool right on budget

Its not that we dont have time to make the shots its that when reality (not fiction) moves forward you NEED to work fast

I work with clients who are used to working with EX1/Z1 crews and expect a certain speed of operation - you know the corporate MD who is in a hurry

I intednd to bring them that low hassle and speed an AND bring them more too.. a cinematic edge .. but the speed and reliability come first

Im shoot a 'celeb' on sunday morning - I think we have him for 10mins on his diary - I know he will be 5 mins late and his PR will want him to leave 5 mins early !


S

EDIT: to answer the question : yep a lot is handheld and natural light

.. and with some compositional skill and a 50 at F2.8 it looks great

 

[cheezweezl]

ok cool. now that we've established that there is more than one way to shoot video, can we get back to the point? anybody got any thoughts on my ND idea (i mean the actual physical idea, not the concept of why i would do it to begin with)?

 

[imag]

Couple thoughts-

1. That's a pretty small fader ND.

2. If I understand your idea, adjusting the fader means removing the lens, which seems like a pain.

3. If you don't use a fader, then it will probably be fastest to meter before you put the lens on to make sure you have the right amount of ND. If you permanently attach a fixed amount of ND, it will be helpful, but not super-helpful.

4. I could see potential issues with internal reflections. It has already been noted that this can be a problem with non-baffled adapters; putting a filter in there *could* make it worse. There's one way to find out...

5. There *might* be an issue with vignetting depending upon the filter size - but with the FS100 sensor size, I doubt it.

 

[mico]

sing ray, faders , genus faders, cokin system. Run and gun solutions have been invented for the run and gun low profilers.

If those aren't fast enough for you then this camera is not for you, try an af100 for the cinema look with in camera nd's

Honestly doing weddings with this camera where you don't even have a second dictates you put a zoom lens on with a fader type nd and whats faster than that?

 

[morgan_moore]

ok cool. now that we've established that there is more than one way to shoot video, can we get back to the point? anybody got any thoughts on my ND idea (i mean the actual physical idea, not the concept of why i would do it to begin with)?

I think it is a great idea

Having no onboard ND is a right pain, almost pushing me F3 wards

it needs to be drop in like a nikkor 400 2.8

S

 

[olindacat]

I'm planning on going the Lee Filters route. It allows up to 4 filters and clips on quickly to the adaptor on the lens. Each lens will have its own adapter (they are all different sizes anyway).

Advantages: it's smaller, faster, and cheaper than a matte box. It also preserves the ability to use good filters, rotate polas, and locate gradients.

That what I've been using for years. Aside from UVs to protect my glass, the Lee is durable and fast. The cases take up space so 8-10 filters becomes a hassle to carry, but I manage to fit them into my bag and they have been great over the years. Changing a circular everytime you want a different filter is unnecessary with this.

 

[Postmaster]

EDIT: to answer the question : yep a lot is handheld and natural light

.. and with some compositional skill and a 50 at F2.8 it looks great

Now I get it - you guys have a way different shooting style.
I do (or have to do) that kind of shooting sometmes, but I often was disappointed with the results I achieved.
Thats probably why I´m s anal about controlling everything, from framing to lighting.

To get back on topic (and out on a limb),

instead of mounting a filter ring inside the adapter, could you split the adapter in the middle and lathe the exact(!) amount away a ND fader takes?
then you would have an adapter, with an ND fade in the middle, which means you could turn it like an iris ring.

You also would need some mechanism that locks the whole shebang, so that it is not turning unwanted, while focusing.

A good machine shop should b able to do this for a song and a dance.

Frank

 

[morgan_moore]

 

[cheezweezl]

i was just thinking about cutting a slot in the top of the adapter, along with building some structure on the inside, that would allow a standard round ND filter to be dropped in. I'm thinking something like 52-58mm off the top of my head. then i could have like a 3 filter set in a pouch, in my pocket, that i could just drop in an anytime. this would actually give me a little more flexibility over the F3, which has only two ND filters.