C500: I went ahead and did a C500 Fan Noise Quick Video Test - See Vimeo link & talk?

[Kinok]

There is no vibration really. The problem is that the small size of the internal fans running at high speed creates a whirring sound that is too loud and at a higher frequency than larger fans. Larger fans will also run more silent as they don't require the same RPM to maintain the same flow.

Canon could have avoided the problem to some degree by designing variable-speed fans that would run in a low mode while recording (I believe the C300 II has such variable-speed fans). In that way, we would not be stuck with only two settings: on and off.

 

[C-Mac]

C-Mac, this is good news! Thank you for being so industrious with this C500 sound matter. I look forward to getting the modified external fan device, and rolling some long takes hopefully with the same results you have had. Once again C-Mac I thank you for posting your findings with the C500.

Broatch

Sure man! I am feeling a lot better about the camera, but want to do some more tests to sure up my comfort.

Best Regards,

Chris

 

[C-Mac]

I too shoot LONG interviews with no breaks and having to buy a camera and then install my own fans in it would bug me. But on the other hand, you guys have all gained an amazing camera for very little money so it seems well worth it to get it to work for your situations. Rock on!

It would bothered me more if I had bought at the original price, but if the issue is solved I can live with it. It was poor engineering on Canon's part and likely cost them in sales. I enjoy the engineering challenges we sometimes face in this industry, it makes things fun!

Best Regards,

Chris

 

[B.Berry]

I get my unit on Wednesday! if it works I'm going to have a friend use his high end 3D modeler, and fabricate the metal part that attaches to the camera side, and then have the option of playing with different fans on a hard plastic fan holder.
There are quite a few variable, and quiet, computer fans out for sale on the web.

 

[Mitch Gross]

If you want to pay someone to make this for you, I suggest the guy who came up with the concept, David Knappenberger at AbelCine in New York. It was his idea and execution for Matt Porwoll, and then he made a bunch more both for the Abel Rental fleet as well as some sold to Canon USA. I know he refined it quite a bit from what was pictured in Matt's blog. This was a number of years ago so I don't know if he would have interest anymore, but he certainly engineered it quiet well.

 

[B.Berry]

I got in touch with Able here in LA, and Juliet McNally, is going to assemble the left over parts from the NYC Able, where David I believe had left over external fan units, so by Wednesday I should be good to roll the C500 without that blazing fan kicking in

 

[Kinok]

I just want the OEM-looking black panel they were using to mount the fans to the C500. That part looks like it is part of the camera.

 

[NorBro]

Has anyone shot any 4K/60P to the 7Q yet?

If so, would you be able to share some footage? (or the RMF files?)

 

[Mitch Gross]

I just want the OEM-looking black panel they were using to mount the fans to the C500. That part looks like it is part of the camera.

I believe that was scrap salvaged from some previous project and carved out on a bandsaw, then precision bent to form around the camera body using the edge of a table. You can get everything at Home Depot. Also note the lovely rubber cement job done to marry the fan cables to the camera power socket. It was my suggestion on the "production models" (Matt got the original prototypes) to punch a few holes in that lovely black plate of metal so that one could use a few zip-ties to keep those fan power leads in order. Remember that this thing was whipped together pretty fast. David's real genius move was to push air in through the intake slot as well as adding to the standard exhaust. You could probably lose the extra exhaust fan and still get 80-90% of the efficiency.

 

[ollywood88]

Mitch, You mentioned the design from the Abel Cine team. Do you know any of these suppliers for the UK? Or is more of a custom job for us. Luckily we have colder temperatures

Thanks

 

[Paul Walker]

I'm going to try to build something similar but lack the skills to make a custom part. Need to figure out which is the exhaust and which is the intake!

Seems a shame to use gaffer tape on such a fantastic camera, but at the moment, that's the solution.

 

[ollywood88]

Paul. Do you own the camera?

I am looking to buy a used one at the moment upgrade path from my C100 and Blade combo, But the fan is a pain because of how many interviews I shoot

 

[Kinok]

David's real genius move was to push air in through the intake slot as well as adding to the standard exhaust. You could probably lose the extra exhaust fan and still get 80-90% of the efficiency.

Thanks Mitch. I agree that the double fans idea is nicely done and I think it's worth retaining in any similar build. It's also good to know that I could lose one of the fans and retain 80-90% of the efficiency.

My build will be rather different. I'm using two standard 9V batteries (1.7" x 1") to power the fan(s). If I run them in series at 18V, I could power one 12V fan for many hours. If I run them separately with two 5V or 6V fans, they would also go for a pretty long time. The batteries will be attached between the fans so there are no wires going anywhere and, most importantly, no need to use my V-lock battery and plate on the C500/Odyssey rig, which is heavy enough as it is.

 

[B.Berry]

I think the upper fan is the output vent fan, and the lower one is the input cooling fan. see page 196 of the C500 manual.

 

[Mitch Gross]

Mitch, You mentioned the design from the Abel Cine team. Do you know any of these suppliers for the UK? Or is more of a custom job for us. Luckily we have colder temperatures

Thanks

Custom job, never made into a retail product.

 

[ollywood88]

Thank you Mitch. Looking forward to peoples tests.

 

[Kinok]

Has anyone shot any 4K/60P to the 7Q yet?

If so, would you be able to share some footage? (or the RMF files?)

I haven't tested this yet as it requires two SSDs, records at 700 MB/s, and must be conformed in post. Here are some online examples:

[I posted this before, so I don't know if you missed it. It's the BTS of a feature doc available on Vimeo that is shot entirely on the C500 with a good amount of 4K 60P and 120P footage]

[Skip the mostly GoPro footage from 00:24-01:26]

Btw, that is 7x the data rate of the 1DX II's 4K 60P mode with MJPEG! You better reorder that camera, especially considering that the DPAF would really come in handy in HFR situations where you have to capture high-speed action. I have no idea how they kept focus on those motorcycles at 100mph in 60p and 120p on Why We Ride. It takes one hell of a focus puller.

When I get around to recording in 60 and 120fps, I will definitely post some files for you. RMF files are made up of individual frames, so 4K 60P has the exact same image quality as 4K 30P and 24P. It's only at 120p that you lose some quality relative to the regular 4K.

 

[NorBro]

Thanks! I thought the 4K/60p didn't look right sometimes from the 1DX Mark II (maybe because of the lower bit rate)...

I'll take a low bit rate, but for like $1500 from the GH5 or something, ha.

I was just curious to play around with the RMF files, but at the end of the day it's going to be too much of a PITA. I miss shooting 4K/60P ProRes 444 in the URSA...so lovely, ha.

 

[Paul Walker]

Paul. Do you own the camera?

I am looking to buy a used one at the moment upgrade path from my C100 and Blade combo, But the fan is a pain because of how many interviews I shoot

Hi Oliver

Yes, I own a C500 with Shogun Flame so 4:2:2 10 bit at 4k ProRes and also a C100 (which I love). Re-creating the fan solution is very simple and I notice there are better 35mm brushless fans out there, specifically the Noctuas which are virtually silent. The tricky part is trying to remake the C500 'hugger' solution. This will cost me money as I can't DIY it but I'll pay someone to get it done. Will do all of this when out of bed with flu...

Pourquoi?

Paul

 

[Kinok]

I was just curious to play around with the RMF files, but at the end of the day it's going to be too much of a PITA. I miss shooting 4K/60P ProRes 444 in the URSA...so lovely, ha.

The workflow is a "PITA," but the C500's HFR has many advantages to the URSA 4K or any BMD camera for that matter. We are talking about a 1.46 crop on the C500 vs. 1.7 on the 4K URSA (which counts against your aperture) as well as far better noise and ISO performance on the C500, all of which factor into HFR image quality as you need the most light and best ISO/noise performance you can get.

The only recent 4K cinema camera that compares to the C500 and C300 II in terms of ISO/noise performance is the Varicam LT, which also has analog gain. All of these can do ISO 4000 with little noise. This is very handy when cranking the frame rate.