I took the Plunge

M

magaman

New member
After months of saving money and researching I finally ordered my HMC40. At first I was looking at the HMC150 but the price was just to high, thats when I found the HMC40. After using a Sony HVRA1 years ago, I knew that using a CMOS based camera correctly can result in some great footage. My other big desire was to be done with tapes of all kinds, so the HMC40 was right up my alley.
While yes I'm on a budget, I am going all out from the get-go, beyond the XLR adapter and extra battery, I'm also picking up a Dot Line DL-DV60 LED Light, Petrol PCTB-3(I wanted something I could also carry my Macbook in and something on wheels, as the main use of this camera is for my website, and that involves me attending conventions and shows)
I'm holding off on the shotgun mic, wanted to shop around, most of the work will be stand-up interviews, so a shotgun isn't needed right away.

The only thing I'm still trying to totally figure out is my workflow. I'll be editing with FCP, right now on a Macbook Pro, but my old windows machine is in need of an upgrade, so I am planning on buying a new Mac Pro once the line gets updated with the new 6 core intel's in June.
I've seen many suggested workflows, I've had good luck so far with using Pro Res and AIC with my current crappy Flip cam. Though it seems many people also prefer using cineform. Either way I'll have to do some testing, and I'm sure I'll be back here asking a bunch of questions.
 
congratulations, and welcome!
yes, it seems the ProRess422 LT is the codec of choice, or at least that's what i am using. FCP7 will read the files created by the camera directly, but it as it stands, it is better to go to an intermediate codec, from what i've been able to understand.
You'll enjoy the cra out of this little camera, i take it with me everywhere, it is small and powerful...as usual, i hate to say this, but the downside, is the night...other than that...WELCOME!

-thinking about car forums made me wonder if i should ask to pictures....lol
 
Are you SURE you want to stick to a MAC?

This video was done on a $600 Gateway i5 laptop. NO transcoding, full frame editing and the software COMES with your HMC! Why spend a ton on a new laptop that can't do what this $600 one can?
(btw.. I made the video, so if you have any questions.)
 
i am trying to go away from final cut pro and into adobe prmeiere so i can do cross-platform editing. i need to buy a ne wcomputer first, tho.
 
The is more to editing experience than working in AVCHD natively.

Stick with Final Cut Pro if you're comfortable with it and RT ism't crucial to your workflow.

There are many factors that determine what editor you should select.
 
David S. said:
The is more to editing experience than working in AVCHD natively.

Stick with Final Cut Pro if you're comfortable with it and RT ism't crucial to your workflow.

There are many factors that determine what editor you should select.
Click to expand...

Exactly! Doing a rough edit with native files is no where near the flexibility of production level editing and content creation tools. With that $600.00 laptop you really do get what you pay for. Besides once converted to ProRes I can get a couple of layers of RT as well on my Imac. Not to mention the large FCP community and employment possibilities around FCP.

Don't get me wrong I think about Edius is doing is very impressive but editing raw material quickly is not the same as a full editing experience.
 
Thomas Smet said:
With that $600.00 laptop you really do get what you pay for..
Click to expand...

Okay.... What did I not get? I got an Intel i5 4GB ram, a DVD-R/ Blu-Ray and a 360GB HDD with Win7 64bit.... It will edit native AVCHD with CC and filters.. Now, what am I missing?
Oh, that's right... some dude in a black turtleneck telling me it's not as shiny and doesn't have an apple on it. Big whoop.
 
Oh.. BTW.... your great FCP doesn't retain the native timecode from the original AVCHD file. What's wrong with it? I guess it just isn't up to snuff with a real editor.
 
wihtout getting this into a fistfight between editors....i don't see apple having FCP in the future, apple is too busy creating iPads and itouch which actually sell millions than overpriced editorial suites...

also, FCP is only on mac where as i.e adobe is cross platform menaing you have more options as to what to buy...and if you do spend 5000$ on a mac pro, imagine the possibilities of spending those same 5000 on a PC
 
Dude why don't you stop taking this so personal. All I am saying is that FCP is a suite of production tools including Motion, Color, DVD Studio Pro and so forth. Thats like saying Gimp is as good as the Adobe Master Collection. FCP is also a tried and true production level tool used by hobbyists, event producers, broadcasters and film makers. Again I am not knocking Edius at all but just saying that raw editing is only a piece of the puzzle. Trust me there are things the free version of Edius cannot do and sometimes to some people it is worth it to have the production tools ready to use.

Apple getting rid of FCP is pure speculation as well. One rumor got spread and all of a sudden everybody thinks it is a fact. Just because Apple does very well with their consumer products doesn't mean they are about to ditch the pro market. Maybe it isn't a huge money maker for them but it builds a lot of image for Apple and Apple is all about image. SONY sells way more consumer based electronics then their pro products but nobody will see them getting rid of their pro market. This silly Apple rumor is the equivalent to somebody going into Best Buy and only seeing SONY consumer cameras and saying SONY is selling off it's broadcast division.

I am not a loyal FCP or Apple user either. I have both and I enjoy them but I also have PC systems at home and at work. I build and fix editing PC systems at work and we use CS4 and Sony Vegas at work. I am the lone Apple person at work which I have done so to support the other FCP users in our industry. I used to use Avid Liquid which was way ahead of everybody when it came to gpu support for realtime playback so I know how important it is. 6 years ago Avid Liquid was editing native mpeg2 with help of the gpu long before anybody else could crawl through it. We could edit multiple layers of HDV on a Pentium 4. In the end however the raw power wasn't enough and we needed more creative tools.
 
I had to get rid of my IMAC 3.06 Duo just because it would come to a crawl when doing any kind of work with it(AVCHD file). I opted to sell it and get an i7 quad core and working with Sony Vegas Pro. If I had a couple more hundred bucks I would have got the IMAC Quad core. But at that time they were really hard to get a hold of.
 
I know Edius is not a replacement for CS4 master or ECP suite. MY original post was a responce to someone who was talking about upgrading a windows machine and he didn't seem glued to a MAC but was going to wait for a new MBP in June. I suggested saving some money, and getting great RT performance at the same time by getting a windows laptop and using the software that comes with his new HMC40.

YOU jumped in and said "you get what you pay for" when it comes to a $600 laptop. Funny, that same laptop can edit native AVCHD while a $3000 MBP can not. Looks like YOU don't get what YOU pay for if RT performance is a factor.

As far as Professionals using GV products? Let's see the lst of Edius users:
Rai tv
NBC
KRON
REUTERS
Telemundo


Oh and Red Union Films:
http://www.grassvalley.com/docs/Case_Studies/professional/edius/PRV-4073M_Awaydays_CaseStudy.pdf

=)
 
The original poster said he already has a MBP with FCP. He said he wants to upgrade his tower to a Mac Pro to match his already current workflow with his laptop.

Again I said I have nothing against Edius so I am not sure why you are so defensive. I can also list over 1000 Hollywood directors, studios and broadcasters that use FCP. If it was such a bad system would they use it? Look the OP said they use FCP and you and I are starting to hijack this thread with a unnecessary conversion about which NLE is better. I don't see the point of convincing him to use another system when that isn't the question he asked. My statement about you get what you pay for was in regards to the software, not the laptop. Software, meaning what tools you get not how many layers play in RT. also keep in mind those examples you listed use the full software and not Edius Neo.
 
Thomas Smet said:
My statement about you get what you pay for was in regards to the software, not the laptop. .
Click to expand...

Really? Because to me it actually sounded just like this:

Thomas Smet said:
With that $600.00 laptop you really do get what you pay for.
Click to expand...

Hmm.. No mention of software.

Okay.. no dump on the NLE of choice.

To the OP:

Before you jump into a new desktop, try that Neo 2.5 software that comes with your cam.
#1) It will edit the native files directly off the card in RT with TIMECODE which no other NLE can do. Period.
#2) For the price of your new MAC, you could get a kickin' non-mac and CS5 suite so you'll have the best of both worlds... Native RT with Neo and native editing in CS5 with AfterEffects and Encore so you can burn Blu-Ray if you so desire.

BTW... You should have some extra $$$ left over as well.


That's why I asked in my OP "Are you SURE you want to stick with a MAC?"... See.. It was a question.
 
With his Mac, he can also run Windows, and therefore, Edius, Vegas, etc. It's called Bootcamp. It's free. It works.

Can't we all just get along? Won't someone please think of the children?
 
hoju said:
With his Mac, he can also run Windows, and therefore, Edius, Vegas, etc. It's called Bootcamp. It's free. It works.

Can't we all just get along? Won't someone please think of the children?
Click to expand...

Good...

Note. I was NOT dumping on any NLE. I simply stated what was good about the free NLE he was getting with his purchase of the HMC40. Why is it when I show a video of one NLE doing something that another can't (usually FCP but it has happened in other camps) the users of the other NLE get offended?
I wasn't offended until the "You get what you pay for" comment that sounded elitist to me.

To each his own.. I will however show someone with questions about a product their options.
I switched from Edius to Premiere and back to Edius.. Each time I switched it was for better performance with the files I used most (namely AVCHD as this is the HMC40 section).
 
Perhaps it is the way you come across when you make your suggestions. I am not elitist and have tried on numerous occasions to calm the situation and put it to rest but yet you continue to be upset by something I feel was taken the wrong way which I have tried to point out many times.

You also said "Now, what am I missing?
Oh, that's right... some dude in a black turtleneck telling me it's not as shiny and doesn't have an apple on it. Big whoop. "

That seems much more rude to me then me saying "you get what you pay for"

"Oh.. BTW.... your great FCP doesn't retain the native timecode from the original AVCHD file. What's wrong with it? I guess it just isn't up to snuff with a real editor."

Now to me that looks like you do have an issue with FCP. I have never once bashed Edius Neo other then to say it is going to have a limited toolset which is just obvious given it's price.
 
Premiere CS5, preferably with Cineform, will be a little pricey but likely a big step forward IMHO.

And ... ahem ... both are crossplatform.
 
Thomas Smet said:
You also said "Now, what am I missing?
Oh, that's right... some dude in a black turtleneck telling me it's not as shiny and doesn't have an apple on it. Big whoop. "

That seems much more rude to me then me saying "you get what you pay for"
Click to expand...

Back in context.... You said "With that $600 laptop you get what you pay for."

Now, if that doesn't scream elitist MAC user who thinks his $2000 MBP is better because it costs more, especially when I just showed a $600 laptop doing what the $2000 MBP couldn't then I don't know what is. I'm sorry you can't edit native files.... Don't blame me... Talk to Steve Jobs, he's the one that feels it necessary to transcode everything.

Hopefully CS5 will retain the timecode from AVCHD file because it also can't (and Adobe have said they won't allow it, but they may change their minds)
 
Alejo_NIN said:
wihtout getting this into a fistfight between editors....i don't see apple having FCP in the future, apple is too busy creating iPads and itouch which actually sell millions than overpriced editorial suites...
Click to expand...

Naaa... Apple's going to stick with FCP. Sure, they do iPads and iPods. But the iPad is really just a big iPod Touch -- more than anyone expected, given how close the CPU is to the iPod's. Different people write the commerical apps.

Apple got into the media content creation software business because, as the Mac fell in popularity, they were legitimately concerned about future support. At the time (latter days of the PowerPC Mac), Adobe has already started cutting back support. Obviously, some of this was helped by Apple going Intel (also eliminating a whole Mac they needed to make from scratch -- today's Macs are just bog standard PCs in pretty casework), and some by rising about the 1.25% of the market they hit when they bottomed out.

But anyway.. Apple needs these apps to keep the Mac viable. Rather than get just the hardware fees from the end user, they want to hit folks up with hundreds if not thousands of dollars in productivity apps. Makes sense... after all, they're the OS vendor too, and everyone knows Microsoft makes more on Office than Windows.

Plus, keeping their multimedia suite fresh (well, fresh-ish... they still don't do Blu-Ray, while Vegas did it over two years ago) leaves them an ace in the hole.. at any time, they could enter the mainstream PC software market, and become a serious competitior to guys like Adobe.

Alejo_NIN said:
also, FCP is only on mac where as i.e adobe is cross platform menaing you have more options as to what to buy...and if you do spend 5000$ on a mac pro, imagine the possibilities of spending those same 5000 on a PC
Click to expand...

Or two PCs... each of which would be on par with that $5K Mac.

Cross platform is overrated, unless you have an active need to switch hit all the time. I started out on Adobe Premiere, and hated it -- it was like taking a step back 10 years, in terms of everything it did. I hear it's a little better now, but Vegas was much better, back then. Ideas like "any media type all mixed together on the timeline" and "audio is a first class object" and even "unlimited A/V tracks with compositing" are fairly recent additions to many of these apps.

Others, of course, will write off Vegas and extole the virtues of FCP or Premiere Pro or Edius or SpeedEdit or Avid or whatever. Which is as it should be... you're going to spend months in front of that NLE. If you have the choice, use the one you like.
 
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