GH2 I need the GH2 to do EVERYTHING - Am I crazy?

I teach at a school for the performing arts (film production) Although we use digital cams, lol go figure. Anyways, I use xha1's, their built like a tank, their loaded with features, and the not so good low light ability makes my students learn to light a scene. Their tape, which is kind of a pain, but I usually use a citidisk that records to cf card. You can find them for a little over a grand.

If you look at this forum, 90% of the best shooters here started with a 1/3rd inch camcorder, then upgraded as time went on. I feel like there's a true advantage of starting off on a camera that doesn't need a rig to get the features a stock hvx200 has. You can still get a shallow dof with a 1/3rd inch. yeah you have to work for it, but it's a tool to learn on. Half the fun was trying to achieve the best look you could with the least amount. You really appreciate it, and remember the process. Maybe i'm just old school. who knows.
 
Teach your kids business administration.
Show them how to rent some gear with that $900 and then make a profit with it.
 
Jockomo said:
Teach your kids business administration.
Show them how to rent some gear with that $900 and then make a profit with it.
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Yeah, i'm sure the kids that sign up for a production class would be thrilled to know their not going to be learning production, but "business administration". I promise you will have ZERO students by the end of the first class.
 
Sorry, that was a bit snarky. Perhaps I don't understand. The budget is to spend 900 per student to get them each a GH2. But this won't get them a monitor, tripod, audio gear, lens choices, or a follow focus for that matter. Not to mention lighting and grip.

It seems to me that they could learn plenty about video production just using their cell phone cameras.
Then you could use that money to purchase one really nice setup and a different part of the class would be on using real gear.
 
I'm going to agree with getting both. Force them to use the small-chip at first, then teach them the GH2 and let them use it if they want to for later projects.

NYU's film program has started all their students by making them shoot (and edit!) on non-sync b/w 16mm for about 40-50 years. It's absolutely a fabulous learning tool. Tragically, IMO, they had to switch to digital this year since servicing all that old equipment is becoming impossible. I saw students learn more in one semester like that than in years of other programs.

All that is just to say that - in my opinion - forcing limitations upon students is the best way to teach them what's important. Start them off with limiting cameras and let them work their way up to the good stuff as they learn why they need the good stuff.
 
Jockomo said:
Sorry, that was a bit snarky. Perhaps I don't understand. The budget is to spend 900 per student to get them each a GH2. But this won't get them a monitor, tripod, audio gear, lens choices, or a follow focus for that matter. Not to mention lighting and grip.

It seems to me that they could learn plenty about video production just using their cell phone cameras.
Then you could use that money to purchase one really nice setup and a different part of the class would be on using real gear.
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To clarify - the goal is to get 3 camera bodies for the new "video production department" that we're creating at about $900 per body. As to additional equipment - some will be donated and hopefully additional funds can be secured to add to the wish list but I had to start somewhere.

One other hope of mine, because I'm not sage of all things video, is to bring in guest teachers for weekend hands-on classwork. So get a DP/Gaffer to come in with a featured piece on lighting, DP/grip to talk about cinematography, sound-guy for sound, editor for editing, etc & also hope that they could bring some "pro" gear.

I learned myself way back on VX-2000s and PD-150s - then moved to film adapters & finally to DSLR. What I'd really love is a DSLR that takes the prosumer camcorder features and combines them with the DSLR features. Sony kind of tried with the NEX-20 camcorder but kind of missed.
 
My advice would be to get cameras that are durable. GH1/2's are consumer devices with a flippy screen that's likely not suitable to the abuse constant student use will put them through.

While I like the idea of having the students experience the HDDSLR world this early, I think it may be overkill and a pain in the butt to teach them how to setup and use the GH2 + Rig.

I also vote for some used DVX's or something along those lines. My school had VX1000's when they first came out and they did the task. Most students won't have the time to actually put into learning deep menu's and set ups, especially when there are only 2/3 cameras for the whole class. Going SD also makes the video editing stations much easier to afford and run, it will save render times and make output (to DVD) simple too.

HD is cool and all, but on a budget, I wouldn't go for cheap consumer plastic cameras that aren't even designed for videography as it's primary function. Besides you'll get a whole bunch of students asking "why didn't you get the canons?" lol
 
If you're going to go with one brand for all the video equipment I would approach the manufacturer.

They are quite often interested in sponsoring academic organization, as it greatly influences equipment choices if a student moves into that field for their career.

You probably won't be able to get free equipment, but it will be at least less than what you would pay retail
 
I teach Movie Production/Media at a high school as well as run the film part of our visual and performing arts academy.

It really all depends on what students you are getting. Some students wont be able to run a GH2 at all. Most will but kids that aren't technically adept or bright aren't going to be able to set shutter speed and aperture etc. There is a lot to screw up on the GH2. Unless you are teaching NDs as well the shallow DOF that you are getting out of DSLRs is pretty much going to go away as well. If you are getting students that are really interested in the tech than the GH2 is perfect. There is a huge, huge range of ability and talent in your normal High School class.

I teach with both I have 3 gh2's and a mess of minidv camcorders. This year I started with tape camcorders early in the year. Focus on writing a story, setting up shots and lighting. When they were somewhat ok with that I introduced the gh2's half way through the year. Kids who are into it get the GH2 for some it is too much. So I tell them if they need to they can use the camcorder but I prefer projects are shot on the GH2.

The Gh2 lends itself to movie style productions. The camcorder can do run and gun, sports footage, plays etc. We use the GH2's to shoot plays and find that battery life is an issue. So you have to have AC power or an external pack or swap batteries which isn't quick because you have to take the camera off the tripod.

I think for next year I am going to teach pretty much DSLR's first. There really is too much to learn to start half way through the year. Its like in a photo class. By the end of half a year you are just able to get things figured out and its done. So at least halfway through the year stuff will look better on the dslr. It takes a few projects to get the kids where they need to be with the DSLRs. To teach it right you need to teach ISO, Aperture, Shutter Speed, White Balance, Frame rates, ND filters, etc. Its a lot for kids to take in and if they don't have their own camera their time to practice is limited. It will take them some time to get this in practice reguardless of how good a teacher you are.

I would get a GH2 and tm900 as mentioned earlier. I hate using tape. Though it is nice because a kid can keep their tape and have backup but now SD cards are cheap enough that you can provide one for each kid if need be. Capturing realtime is just too huge a time waster. You want both cameras to have the same AVCHD workflow. I know it is good to expose them to all sorts of different workflows but I don't think tape is coming back. Digital workflow will be drag and drop from here on out.

I would setup your GH2 like a traditional film camera. Rails, Matte box ND's etc if you can afford it. Use it as a movie camera. Setup your camcorder as a run and gun ENG rig. Teach them both styles of work. Buy Nikon mount lenses most of my students have their own t2is or 7d's or gh1's they get a lot of use out of borrowing lenses. If you have a set of AIS primes or whatever you can use them on the canons as well as the gh2's.

Dont get me started on Audio. Something with High school kids and audio that they can't seem to manage. Running external mics, h4ns etc gets complex for them. I would echo the suggestion of the DR40. It is cheap has xlrs in. We have been running h4n's, DR05's and DR40's with the sescoms into the gh2s. I have done dual audio at times but it is too much for most kids. We use a wireless boom setup a lot for films. Not ideal but works ok for what we are doing.

It is pretty amazing what HS kids can do if you have enough time with them and they are talented.
 
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Not too long ago I interviewed for a CREATIVE DIRECTOR position, supervising a team of designers. I usually attend interviews with a handy list of questions and at the end of the interview I asked "How many of the designers here can draw, you know... with a pencil".
"Why, none actually" was my Interviewer's reply. "Well then I shan't have designer to supervise I'm afraid"

Lesson? If they can't learn on a simple tool, how can they do anything decent with a complex tool?
Imagine a class of 20 kids with 20 point and shoots versus 20 kids trying to share time on ONE camera !
 
@Zephyrnoid
I disagree. Yes, many artists can do amazing things with the simplest of tools and there is evidence of great mastery in that. But the decision about which tool is "basic" is arbitrary. What if they have the darndest time with a pencil, but they are amazing with charcoal, or vise-versa? Or what if they have a tactile aversion to the sound of a pencil against paper, or chalk against a chalkboard (and I would urge you to look at some of the disorders that various artists have had before saying that does not happen)? Those are students that might have a much easier time with digital media. Nor do all traditional artists do well with digital media: sometimes it is the very absence of that direct tactile sensation that makes things difficult for a student.

Also on the topic of simplicity, the key is finding tools the students can resonate with. If children are bored, they will learn less quickly than if they are engaged. Finding the right level of challenge for the individual students is an important strength for teachers to have. If you put a brilliant but undisciplined student in front of basic rote things, they will tune out. If you put a brilliant but disciplined and open-minded in front of the same thing, they may do it in such a fashion that you realize you were setting your sights too low.

Many students will feel completely unmotivated to do more work if they cannot see positive results from their efforts early on. If a teacher tried to make me shoot with a Hi8 camera, nothing short of a strong pre-existing relationship with them could make me hide my dismay. If they took a high quality tool and said "here, look at how you can use this EXACT thing to make something that looks THIS good" then I would be very engaged and highly motivated to deal with the challenges along the way.

As a student, my attitude was "show me, give me the chance to apply things and I will do whatever I can" and I was able to show tech. tricks to almost every single teacher I had (with the exception of my first Photoshop class with version 3 at UCSB Extension, but in my defense I was 10).

You'll never know how brilliant your students can be unless you give them the chance, but you don't have to be demanding either.

Just a few of my takes on things. My family has written various books on the topic (mother, father, step-mother, etc.) so I grew up discussing them a lot.
 
Now, with that rant out of the way, do keep in mind that you can teach students different parts in stages.

You could potentially start them off filming in auto mode, so they can get used to framing shots and just operating the camera. Then you can show them how to get more control over the noise level by using manual ISOs (keep it simple and limit them to the middle row for the GH2, no reason to have them deal with the ISO bug yet). Then you could point out the shortcomings they are running into and switch them into either aperture priority or shutter priority as you teach them one aspect or the other. Finally add the one you left out (shutter or aperture) so that they can see, step by step, how each contributes to the process and can continue to focus on storytelling as they learn craft (since they are not being overwhelmed by it all at once).

I mean, that is just one way to do it. It seems to work well for a lot of my students, but the key is really to find what works for you and your students. Students are not all the same and neither are teacher - try to build off of the strengths of each and you'll be able to do a lot.

Just my 2 cents. I know a lot of it overlaps with what some of the other people have said, but it is hard to get me to shut up once I start talking about teaching and learning. I am intensely passionate about the topic. :)
 
Per Lichtman said:
P.S. What part of the country is your school going to be based in? You got me curious!
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I lived in nyc for 10 years but moved back to central pa where I'm from & this is where the theater group is located. For now i'd describe it as a class. We're certainly not a school that's for sure. I'
 
Keep in mind Steven Spielberg cannot draw to save his life. He draws stick figures when sketching story boards. Sometimes great talent doesn't need to know all of the basics. Just what they need to tell a story.

Zephyrnoid said:
Not too long ago I interviewed for a CREATIVE DIRECTOR position, supervising a team of designers. I usually attend interviews with a handy list of questions and at the end of the interview I asked "How many of the designers here can draw, you know... with a pencil".
"Why, none actually" was my Interviewer's reply. "Well then I shan't have designer to supervise I'm afraid"

Lesson? If they can't learn on a simple tool, how can they do anything decent with a complex tool?
Imagine a class of 20 kids with 20 point and shoots versus 20 kids trying to share time on ONE camera !
Click to expand...
 
Jester2138 said:
I can't believe we haven't thought about this already. This is, of course, the quietest but most important part of the issue!
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Exactly!

I'd also like to point out the fact that you are asking a forum full of DPs what is important in the wide field of video production.
If you go to the audio forum, you're going to get everyone telling you that you are missing an audio package.

Honestly the budget is very low and you are trying to cover too many bases with it. You mention 3 cameras, but no mics? Lights?

Are you teaching them to be a DP? A director? A producer? An editor? All of the above?
A mission statement would be useful. What do you expect them to get out of this?
 
Jockomo said:
/You mention 3 cameras, but no mics? Lights?

Are you teaching them to be a DP? A director? A producer? An editor? All of the above?
A mission statement would be useful. What do you expect them to get out of this?
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I still personally own some other gear in audio (shotgun mic and boom pole), tripods, workstation with FCP (not X version - which is a whole other discussion). Lighting is going to be a bit more basic at least to start - china balls, totas. Rome wasn't built in a day - gotta start somewhere. Hope to gain addition funding to get a whole lot more!

Main goals #1 To simply provide kids access to discovering this field of work - film, tv, eng and/or independent production & to see if maybe this might be a field they might want to pursue.

#2 I'd like to have some kids skilled enough that they would be able to work for some of you guys as a second shooter or assistant. That’s where the technique will come in. But there's not nearly the time, equipment or additional staff (I'm kind of it at this point) to get too specialzed. I'm talking trying to hit a couple key basics of each field.
 
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