I dont get it

[Martti Ekstrand]

To me, the GH1 has made shooting fun again.

I with Ron here - shooting with the GH1 is pure fun - thanks to the electronic viewfinder that works in video mode. Unlike all Nikons and Canons with their anachronistic mirror boxes that go dead in video mode. Que advices like stabilizing the camera by dislocating the neck with a tight strap or buying frakkin' strap-on loupes.*

As for image quality / feel; a artist friend of mine who has zero tech knowhow called up before xmas since she was considering what camera to get for a art project - she had been looking around on a lot of clips from 5D and 7D but had finally stumbled across my films on Vimeo and asked why the Canon clips look so 'electronic' and mine so 'organic' (her words, not mine). I sent her the link to Barry Green's test charts and she just said 'oh, now I see why' - those purple-green additions that the 7D do really mess up not only test charts. And people 'feel' it even if they can't put a finger on to what's exactly going on.

I'm just wondering what pushed them to Canon over Lumix.

I think a big factor here is that many still photographers have no clue that Panasonic actually makes really good video cameras so they go with what they know: Canikons are what the big boys use so that must be better.

* I mean, I like strap-ons as much as the next guy but not on my camera.

 

[Chris Light]

besides..."older".???...both cams haven't even been out for a year yet...they're both brand new in my eyes. seems like people are thinking the gh1 is out-dated? that's news to me. (i'm referring to a post on the previous page)

 

[Martti Ekstrand]

The GH1 is older than the canon, the canon takes advantages of a few different things (better codec, etc...) that are simply due to the fact that its a newer model.

Umm again... AVCHD is a newer implementation of the h.264 used in the Canons and it's the same version used in 7D (with somewhat higher bitrate) as in 5DmkII which is a older camera than GH1. AVCHD is unlike pure h.264 intended also for recording, not just distribution, and have for instance a way of dealing with file size limits so it can make recordings as long as the media such as SDHC or CF cards can store. You really should check your facts before giving "non-subjective" opinions like that. And as skinny says - all these cameras are so spanking new that it's hard to claim that any of them outdates the other.

 

[AlexD]

As for image quality / feel; a artist friend of mine who has zero tech knowhow called up before xmas since she was considering what camera to get for a art project - she had been looking around on a lot of clips from 5D and 7D but had finally stumbled across my films on Vimeo and asked why the Canon clips look so 'electronic' and mine so 'organic' (her words, not mine). I sent her the link to Barry Green's test charts and she just said 'oh, now I see why' - those purple-green additions that the 7D do really mess up not only test charts. And people 'feel' it even if they can't put a finger on to what's exactly going on.

It's interesting that you say that because I've always tried to describe it to my friends as a "purply" look overall and that I could tell it was from a Canon. Nice to hear I'm not just seeing things.

 

[dmpsk8]

These conversations begin to mis the point after awhile - I have no idea why people feel the need to defend their purchase to the death.

Accept each cams drawbacks. So far, I certainly prefer my GH1 over a 35mm adapter setup. It really comes down to understanding tradeoffs between the diff DSLRs, looking at their price (i didn't even pay $800 for my GH1 body!), and MOST IMPORTANTLY who's behind the lens.

I agree that the 5d/7d kill in the photo world. The motion battle is often closer than Canon owners want to admit.

 

[Barry_Green]

It may also not be fair, the GH1 was really more of a 1.5 gen video DSLR.

The 7D/5D are really more 2nd gen (while the D90 was 1st gen)

That's definitely not fair. The GH1 is far more of an advanced hybrid than the 7D or 5D. The 7D and 5D are totally first-generation, they're still cameras with a video mode grafted on. The GH1 is a still/video hybrid, nearly as good at being a video camera as it is at being a still camera. If it just had a first-class codec, it would be even better.

 

[Barry_Green]

The GH1 codec is not crippled, its just a pain in the ass to work with. Actually when I look at Barry Greens zone charts that compare the 7D to the GH1, in my opinion the GH1's codec does better. At least the GH1 renders a black and white chart as black and white. The 7D put a great big splotch of color on it.

Those are different issues. It's the way the sensor works that is causing that color contamination, not the codec.

The GH1's codec is actually basically identical to the 7D/5D's codec. Only difference is in the amount of bandwidth allocated to it (plus the GH1 has the goofy 24p-within-60i system instead of the native 24p that the Canons have).

I've owned both cams and the GH1 as a camera has a whole lot of great functionality that the 7D doesn't have. Mainly articulated LCD, live histos, more useful flange distance.

Plus usable autofocus when in video mode, for those times when you need to or want to use it.

 

[Barry_Green]

I'm not trying to start anything. Just trying to get people to look at the image and not the numbers. Plus I want to buy a m4/3s camera to use my old bolex lenses. I don't think this would be as easy on a canon, but everyone tells me to get a canon while it has a bunch of shortcomings I don't like. Just getting other opinions

Don't buy anything you don't like. Who cares what anyone else thinks, as long as the product does what you want?

If you want to look at images, look at the last two DVXFest winners, "Dispatch" and "Nightlight", both shot on the GH1. Or come to SXSW and watch our film "Depth of Phil" on the big screen, shot on a GH1. It absolutely produces images that are as good as anything else on the market. It also has the same aliasing drawback as everything else on the market in its class (with the exception of not having the chroma aliasing issue that appears to be particular to the Canons; the Pentaxes and Nikons don't have that either).

 

[Barry_Green]

Just take in the pros/cons and figure out what works best for your needs. Honestly, you'll be fine either way and you'll want the Next Big Thing a few months after you buy anyway!

Absolutely true!

 

[dmpsk8]

Like the synopsis Barry.

 

[Barry_Green]

So are the Canon's getting more play because it is easier to hand footage over to clients without transcoding? It makes sense, I'm just wondering if that is a main deciding factor. Obviously not EVERYONE on here gets gigs, so I'm just wondering what pushed them to Canon over Lumix.

Canon won the battle long ago. Whether the product is "better" or not, it's the one folks ask for.

Canon made some major noise with the 5D Mark II, when Vincent Laforet shot that short film and then some DPs started using the 5D. And wasn't that was a year before the GH1 came out? I mean, the 7D surpasses the 5D in most ways that a filmmaker would care about, yet people still clamor for a firmware update on the 5D because it became known as "the one."

So really, it starts to shape up like the NLE wars do. Proponents of Premiere Pro CS4, EDIUS, and Vegas may be able to do amazing things, even many things that the Apple and Avid editors can't -- but the fact is, everyone uses the Apple and Avid NLEs. So you can go with what works best for you, or you can go with what everyone uses, and those won't necessarily be the same thing. When they are the same thing, that's great. When they're not, well, you just have to decide which factor is more important to you. To me, Kholi is a great example of this: he used to hate his HVX and HPX170, but those are the cameras everyone wanted to rent, and he could make more money off a daily rental of his HPX170+Letus than he could get for a Red One rental. So he put his personal preferences aside and went with the business choice.

So pick what serves you best, whether that's compatibility with everyone else, or features of the product, or whatever.

 

[Kellar42]

Jon E5...

Obviously whatever camera you choose and works best for you is up to you and I think everyone respects that.

However your first post in this thread was like many that seem to propagate myths about the GH1 and, I believe, hurt potential purchasers looking for answers.

Almost anyone who actually owns both cameras disagrees with a lot of what you say.

Also I'd like to point out that nowhere have I seen that George Lucas picked the Canons over the GH1...rather Bloom decided that for his work, the Canons were the way to go, and he was already on that footing when they found him. Bloom also works in controlled environments, has all the best lenses and follow focus gear, and really knows what he's doing nailing focus. He also uses his GH1 and GF1 all the time, apparently.

Were one doing documentaries, or some other kind of shooting, they might end up with a different opinion.

I recently got my hands on a 7D after long GH1 use. For a recent 5 day shoot in extreme conditions, the GH1 was absolutely our go-to unit most of the time. We got some great 7D stuff also, but focus was a huge issue, for run and gun at night. The little lumix pancake really held up and being able to use the view-finder (also a 3rd point of contact on the shoulder mount) was huge.

I love both of the cameras and the tech. But unless you really know what you're doing and/or can control your environments, don't even think about the 7D.

EDIT: I think Barry really nails something with the fact that the Canons have become 'the video DSLRs' and it doesn't really matter that a lot of the crowd that is going to be buying say, the new rebels, are going to beat their heads in when a GH1 (or Vixia camcorder) might be just what they needed...it's just that way. Because of some hype/marketing/mojo combo. Either way, it's all exciting tech.

 

[AlexD]

Thanks Barry. Glad to hear that

 

[Ben_B]

Not sure how strongly it relates but when I was at Philip Bloom's reader meetup in San Rafael last week one other person and I had GH1s and the other 40 or so people were using Canon SLRs or prosumer video cameras. I know I got a ton of attention for my GH1; people were really curious about it....there's something to be said for standing out in a crowd. In any case, people who were shooting on the canon's were really impressed with some of the features, particularly the articulated LCD, the live viewfinder, and the videocameraesque onscreen control (over ISO change, etc.)

However, the thing I got the most questions about, and thing the Canon folks seemed most blown away by, was the unlimited (only limited by card size) recording time, with no overheating or FAT32 4gb (splits the file) limitation. Many people were expressing frustration as to how they couldn't use their SLRs for events, or for some interview work, or for wide "safe" shots at weddings, etc, and were amazed that the little GH1, designed from the ground up for live view, could.

Coming up, stay tuned, my friend and I are (tomorrow) shooting a montage video that will cut together 5D, GH1, and (weather permitting as it will probably rain and the rig is a pain) HVX-200 with Letus extreme.

 

[J Davis]

Those are different issues. It's the way the sensor works that is causing that color contamination, not the codec.

Hmm interesting ... thanks for clarification.

And an even bigger thanks for doing the 7D/GH1 mega trumpets charts I linked on post 12. As you have probably noticed I like to link to them often.

The GH1 is an elegant cam and for many it will hold a special place as being the cam that changed the way they shoot, the way they view film making and the cam that first opened their eyes.

 

[bumkicho]

Coming up, stay tuned, my friend and I are (tomorrow) shooting a montage video that will cut together 5D, GH1, and (weather permitting as it will probably rain and the rig is a pain) HVX-200 with Letus extreme.

I am looking forward to this already!!

 

[tflak]

no overheating or FAT32 4gb (splits the file) limitation.

Ben, can you clarify what you mean by no 4GB splits - because my GH1 splits the files at 4.29 GB. It's a seamless flow when stringing clips together, but the files are split for sure.

 

[androoow]

i think everyone should go out and buy canon over panasonic at the moment. don't buy the GH1. ..... then maybe panasonic will hurry out a GH2 with hopefully the things we less like about the GH1 fixed ..

i want ( not need ) to buy a DSLR , but i feel right now is not a good time as there seems many camera's in the news about to come out this year..i'm lucky that i can wait .. so am doing lots of research on all cameras but i keep coming back to the GH1 though.

 

[jonE5]

I think whichever you choose you can get good results from.

After working with a D90 for several months I wanted the camera wit the best footage, and the least amount of constraints. I was able to make 5 shorts a documentary and an ad all with my little D90, but the lack of manual controls, the horrid rolling shutter and overheating sensor just made it to difficult at times (especially at night when upping the iso wasnt an option).

I wanted something that could give you the best footage with the least amount of band aid fixes and work arounds. This led me to canon, for some it might lead you to the GH1, whatever you pick obviously they are all just tools for making whatever video you desire.

Obviously the best camera out there will not replace skill in shooting, composition, and writing/direction.

And i mean just hte fact that people are even talking about the GH1 in the same context as the 5D and 7D mean that it must be pretty good. Just like how people seem to always try to compare the 7D footage to the Red One footage. (When its really not a fair comparison given the price difference, same holds for the GH1)

Whoever is still thinking of buying though. Go hold both of them. See how they feel, check the construction and finish, scour the net for the best footage from both. And try to find users that have a similar knowledge and skill level as yourself and see how their footage looks. (for myself thats people with mostly ungraded footage, and thats how i made my decision).

cheers

jon

 

[Ben_B]

Ben, can you clarify what you mean by no 4GB splits - because my GH1 splits the files at 4.29 GB. It's a seamless flow when stringing clips together, but the files are split for sure.

Let me rewrite what I said.

No four gig FAT32 limitation (as it splits the file instead of just stopping recording.)

There we go.