I can edit full 7d HD in primeire with no lag

MajorLeagueEnt

MajorLeagueEnt

Member
edit. I used a trial of neoscene and I used it in After Effects, It did slightly better than raw h.264 but still did not get to 29.97 fps playback on first run(after it stores the images on memory and i playback it runs at 29.97[but it does that with any format for me]) i still dont get why with my specs i dont get full 29.97 playback in after effects and yet no problem at all with any of this crap with primeire


Okay guys first post here, hope I don't get banned in the process...

Let me start of with system specs so you can understand;
Antec 902 Case
Asus P6T Deluxe v2
i7 920 @ 2.8Ghz (stable at max of 94. C)
12GB DDR3 Ram
Nvidia Quadro FX 1800 with HDMI output @ 2 Samsung LCD Televisions
Windows 7 64Bit Installed on 64GB SSD
Adobe CS5 Installed on 2 Toshiba 7200 Rpm 2 TB @ Raid 0


Ok I have had my 7d for a month now and I'm still experimenting with it...

I have read many sites saying you have to use neoscene or mpeg streamclip to transcode the clips to DNxHD (I'm a PC) in order to edit the scenes with fluidity(is that a word)...

However, I see no difference in trying to edit in After Effects with a DNxHD .mov file or a straight 7D HD format(ummm what is the correct name for that oh yea H.264).
I get terrible playback in After Effects CS5 but in Primeire Pro in plays back just the way it was recorded using a H.264 OR DNxHD file.

I have tried lots of things like transcoding the H.264 29.97fps to DNxHD 74 29.97Fps 8bit and it sometimes is even slower than the normal straight from cam footage in After Effects.

I consider myself a advanced PC user but I am very very new to video editing but I pick up quick, I just wanted some input on why I'm getting this terrible playback in After Effects and not in Primeire Pro.
 
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While you CAN edit without transcoding it is better to transcode first. This will cut down on rendering when adding any effects and make color grading work better. When you sit down to edit it is better to have your renders go fast and have your creative options open. It doesn't hurt you at all to do a batch transcode of all of your footage overnight as there is no waitling invloved if you are not sitting at your edit desk :) The slowest renders are the ones you watch the progress bar on!

FYI, this will also make your output stage faster and aid in playing back over SDI via a blackamagic card etc.
 
ahah

ahah

i knew there was a reason for why my encoding(rendering) process was taking forever.... thanks!
 
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saneproductions said:
While you CAN edit without transcoding it is better to transcode first. This will cut down on rendering when adding any effects and make color grading work better.
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Premiere has Mercury so simple color grading is completely real time with a supported GPU. And with the hack you can use all Nvidia gpu's provided they have atleast 768mb of framebuffer.

Transcoding will always degrade quality so I recommend against. I always edit natively, then do color correcting in Premiere and advanced cc in AE with Magic Bullet Looks and Colorista. Always with the native files.

Works very well.
 
Transcoding to a less compressed codec with I frames is a better way to go and does not degrade quality. That is how the workflow is done in pro post houses. In our case we transcode to pro res since we use FCP.
 
evanbutson said:
By the very definition, any transcode wil always lose SOME quality, even if it is a small amount.
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Not by definition, no. You can transcode with enough overhead that the quality remains identical. All transcoding means is that your running the video through software to generate a new file with a new codec. You can lose quality or you can keep the quality, it's all up to you.

You cannot increase the quality, however, at least not directly.
 
You will not be able to press play and "play back" footage in After Effects. It is a compositor ... not an NLE. It has to render pretty much anything before playback. It just isn't designed for on the fly playback of footage. There is nothing wrong with your setup ... After Effects is just too slow to be used as a quick NLE.
 
maarek said:
Premiere has Mercury so simple color grading is completely real time with a supported GPU. And with the hack you can use all Nvidia gpu's provided they have atleast 768mb of framebuffer.

Transcoding will always degrade quality so I recommend against. I always edit natively, then do color correcting in Premiere and advanced cc in AE with Magic Bullet Looks and Colorista. Always with the native files.

Works very well.
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so what you are saying is that you DO NOT use proxy files? and even if i DO USE proxy files in AE i will still not get playback at the FPS i shot at until the footage is pre-rendered...?
 
Youre getting slightly off with your terminology. A proxy file is the common term used in an offline edit, where a proxy is created and when exported then references back to the original file. Its a common practice when using larger file sizes like 2k and above, such as RED.

When you transcode 7d footage youll never reference the original file in export so it becomes the original.

As for, do you need to transcode or not? - your call. But using the original footage can be fraught with issues. Long render times being one. And as for quality loss in transcode - yeah it is possible - whilst I highly doubt it occurs in this instance (when comparing to other forms of transcode for export etc). What your doing is taking the original shots from container A, where everything is squished in like a stuffed pig, to container B, where theres plenty of room.

All I can say is, with 5d footage after transcode, I see no loss of quality, grading and fx become much easier and faster to undertake and the whole experience is more simplified.
 
subtleinspiration said:
That's like saying that an MP3 will lose a small amount of quality if you save it as a WAV file.
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Not really a fair comparison, ProRes is a lossy CODEC, a very nice one, but still technically Lossy, easiest way to see what happens is export your file to the new CODEC then ay them both up in th etimelien and use the difference transfer function (this is in Premiere as it can read the strange colour space of the H.264 files from Canon, you will now only see any pixels that are different between the two files, if you see anything, at all, then you have errors!
 
evanbutson said:
By the very definition, any* transcode wil always lose SOME quality, even if it is a small amount.
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*emphasis added.

If ProRes is lossy (I don't work in that world so I'm not 100% in the know about that), then you are right. However, lossless transcodes (like Lagarith), will not lose any information, so my analogy still stands.

I would even include Cineform in that, even though it is considered visually lossless, and not lossless overall.
 
maarek said:
Transcoding will always degrade quality so I recommend against.
Click to expand...

That's right, good advice.


Transcoding may create a good looking version the original with grading, but it will never be the same as the original no matter how much time you put into it. If you have to do that much work to get back to the original image, what's the point. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
 
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If you're working well in Premiere CS5, stick to it - you will NOT gain any quality advantage by transcoding, provided you're doing fairly simple things like colour correction. Premiere CS5's cc works internally in 32 float, so it doesn't matter whether the file is 8 bit or 12 bit. They have a range of tools versatile enough that you should be able to do reasonably advanced cc. (A good colourist can perform miracles with curves alone.)

I have a similar system to you, except that I have a Quadro FX4800. It works absolutely great. There is no lag. Effects render fast. I also have an HP with a quad core xeon, and a Quadro FX5600. It works just fine on that system as well, even though the 5600 isn't CUDA.
 
maarek said:
Premiere has Mercury so simple color grading is completely real time with a supported GPU. And with the hack you can use all Nvidia gpu's provided they have atleast 768mb of framebuffer.
Click to expand...

Note that's not quite true... the Nvidia card should support CUDA or you won't have much speed advantage. Many older cards (like my Quadro FX5600) don't support CUDA.
 
steventimothy said:
If you're working well in Premiere CS5, stick to it - you will NOT gain any quality advantage by transcoding, provided you're doing fairly simple things like colour correction. Premiere CS5's cc works internally in 32 float, so it doesn't matter whether the file is 8 bit or 12 bit. They have a range of tools versatile enough that you should be able to do reasonably advanced cc. (A good colourist can perform miracles with curves alone.)

I have a similar system to you, except that I have a Quadro FX4800. It works absolutely great. There is no lag. Effects render fast. I also have an HP with a quad core xeon, and a Quadro FX5600. It works just fine on that system as well, even though the 5600 isn't CUDA.
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i guess i'll stick to not transcoding for the moment then... i have a bit of knowledge about how to mess with curves that i learned from photoshop, i'm hoping primeire will have similar tools as its adobe....

but just so i get it straight the term proxy- means a file that you use to edit but it is not the original file which you will later relink and replace that file with in the editor for final rendering?
 
MajorLeagueEnt said:
but just so i get it straight the term proxy- means a file that you use to edit but it is not the original file which you will later relink and replace that file with in the editor for final rendering?
Click to expand...

Right. You can use the proxy to make creative decisions, without the lag. Then, when the edit's done, relink.
 
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