HVX200A vs. EX-1

[mpalmer12345]

Agree with all of this, PF.

I think filmlike sharpness for video will pretty much just become a given in the next few years, -- and then the real fun will begin.

The effort I see for future video image developments is not only to have the sharpness be at the level of film or beyond, but to seek to achieve the variety of painting, where the artist gets to fine-tune exactly the amount of detail he wants in a picture. When you look at an Alex Katz, for instance, there's nary a blemish or pockmark in sight, and it's still tack sharp around the edges. And I have yet to see video get the kind of radiant, beauteous blur that Brackahge achieves in cheap 8mm film. This painterly look is not simply a matter of applying a brush filter to the entire image or some such thing. We've all seen the ugly excesses in this regard that Photoshop and AE hath wrought. Hopefully a whole new set of tools will be developed that don't even exist as of today.

Anyway, that's a bit off topic, sorry. Back to the gladiator fight. . .

 

[Buck Forester]

As for film vs digital... in still photography I still prefer my Fuji Velvia 50 film loaded in my Canon Elan 7 as opposed to my digital Canon 5D (speaking of landscape photography). There's just something in the aesthetics of film and how it holds image values that has yet to be replicated digitally.

 

[Blood Angel]

I think that is to the higher contrast of the camera. The MTF tells us: The higher the contrast, the higher the sharpness appears... (allthough it is not... )

 

[PerroneFord]

I want your opinion of three images:

http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/gallery/1186982/photo_16_hires.jpg

http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/gallery/1190324/photo_10_hires.jpg

http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/gallery/1159012/photo_05_hires.jpg

Obviously these aren't 8mm, but do these images have the "look" you are talking about?

-P

And I have yet to see video get the kind of radiant, beauteous blur that Brackahge achieves in cheap 8mm film. This painterly look is not simply a matter of applying a brush filter to the entire image or some such thing. We've all seen the ugly excesses in this regard that Photoshop and AE hath wrought. Hopefully a whole new set of tools will be developed that don't even exist as of today.

Anyway, that's a bit off topic, sorry. Back to the gladiator fight. . .

 

[mpalmer12345]

Hm, PF, not really. The effect Brakhage gets with 8mm feels opaque, liquid and mysterious, almost like it was shot from the interior of a woman's womb, with an intrauterine glow you get in certain scientific photos such as this:

http://web2.airmail.net/uthman/specimens/images/tubal_embryo.jpg

or that emanate from the canvases of certain painters such as Rothko, whose work deserves only to be viewed in person, never in reproduction.

Frankly, though, it's kind of impossible to describe the effect if you haven't seen the work yourself in a movie theater, as Brakhage is a true magician of light; probably the best I've seen apart from somebody like Nathaniel Dorsky, who works in 16mm and, currently, at least, has a stubborn aversion to all things digital. They both do a unique, sui generis kind of film, though, so I don't know if they should be considered as a general model of excellence for an aspiring narrative filmmaker.

 

[PerroneFord]

Do you have images of either artists work? I'd be curious to see some stills of it.

 

[mpalmer12345]

First off wouldn't be fair to post stills, because Dorsky's work is all about the rhythm and timing of his shots. Stills won't tell you what makes it so transcendent. He's considered one of the greatest editors-for-hire in the biz, and it shows in his own work. Dorsky has written a book about his filmmaking process that I think is one of the finest ever written; I'd place it up there with Bresson. Unfortunately, he's totally a film guy, and won't allow his work to be put out on DVD. You can rent his films, if you have a 16mm projector, but other than that and seeing them once a year at the local film archive, I don't know what to say. Sad, because seeing his films has been one of the most amazing cinematic experiences of my life in recent years. He truly is a unique, groundbreaking filmmaker.

Brakhage is fairly well known, and has a 2-DVD Criterion edition of his films that's a good if imperfect intro, although again it's not the proper medium for seeing his work and it leaves off some of his finest pieces. If you are curious just to get a taste of it, however diluted, you might try watching his stuff on Youtube, although the compression diminishes the impact unforgivably.