HVX200 vs Z1 vs HD100 vs ???futureXL3???

D

Dofray

Member
Imaginos that we are in the desert or the mountain or any place where
one does not want to have to bring a laptop or a Hard Disk in more of
its camcorder. We are encumbered already enough with the tripod and other
accessories and personal businesses. We want to have one hour of true
image HD uncompressed in our computer, 1080 or 720. How much that
does it cost us?

Panasonic AG-HVX200
HVX200 + 7 cards P2 8 Go + 1 card P2 4 Go
$6,000 + 7x$2,000 + $1,000 = $21,000

Sony HVR-Z1E
Z1 + 1 DV Tape + HDV Connect + Blackmagic Decklink HD
$5,500 + $5 + $2,000 + $700 = $8,205

JVC GY-HD100U
HD100 + 1 FD Types + HDV Connect + Blackmagic Decklink HD
$6,295 + $5 + $2,000 + $700 = $9,000

Thus the advantage goes to Sony, but it is not progressive,
therefore favours with the JVC, but it is not 1080, therefore favours
in Panasonic but too expensive and not practises (Laptop or Hard Drive
or much of P2 cards) Damned!!!! Panasonic, Sony and JVC have to act in
concert to put to us in the embarrassment, it is not possible.

Canon, if you listenings. Please HDV 1080/24p for the XL3.

Only Canon will be able to put everyone of agreement now.
 
DAMN...we sure are starting the *vs.* threads awful EARLY!!

What about:

HVX300 vs. Z2U vs. GL3 vs. HD200

Clearly the winner is obvious, is it not? It's.......

~reservoir~
 
Man, all the complaining. I have a HVR-Z1U. When the HVX200 comes out I'll trade it to anyone for their HVX200 that they don't like. You have damn near it all for $6k and yet you still complain.

Any takers? I didn't think so.

just my $0.02 worth

johnc
 
You're talking about UNCOMPRESSED HD?! Who uses that? George Lucas or Robert Rodriguez... with MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO SPEND!!!!

That said, why can't we use the Blackmagic Decklink HD with the HVX? It has uncompressed out, too. Right?

Can you record uncompressed HD to P2? I don't think so. Too much information.
 
*** You're talking about UNCOMPRESSED HD?! Who uses that? George Lucas or Robert Rodriguez... with MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO SPEND!!!! ***
i don't speak about 4:4:4 expensive uncompressed, but 4:2:2 uncompressed for lot of treatment and compositing for anyone.

*** That said, why can't we use the Blackmagic Decklink HD with the HVX? It has uncompressed out, too. Right? ***
Yes, but the problem of filming outdoor still exist.
And like you say, *** record uncompressed HD to P2? I don't think so. Too much information ***. So Thus in more of the $21k, one can add the $700 of Decklink HD 4:2:2


I know that it is a little early for the comparison.

But I just try of launching the debate and realizing well of the
differences which there can be between what manufacturers proposes us.
HVX200, HD100 and Z1 are now presented officially. One can thus start
to test the comparison.

I know that with the HVX200 I have much for less $6K, it is what many
says, but I think that that entraine of other consequent expenditure
to use all that the HVX200 brings.

It is a little like the policy of the manufacturers of printers. The
printer is not expensive, but the consumable one ruins you.

But notice that i love Panasonic, i am a dvx user, but I want to have all the good reason to buy an HVX200 and really profite the advantage of HD.
 
reservoir may I finish this line..........


Clearly the winner is obvious, is it not? It's....... What ever tool works for you the best................

michael pappas
 
Sure wish Panasonic would get on the ball and post full specs on th HVX200. JVC has wasted no time in publishing a plethora of information about the HD100 on their web site.

Jan, what's the hold up on the web update? Very little new info and the brochure is still the old one.

johnc
 
PappasArts said:
reservoir may I finish this line..........


Clearly the winner is obvious, is it not? It's....... What ever tool works for you the best................

michael pappas
Click to expand...

AMEN to that Pappas. Hell, if digital 8 or Hi8 works for you....then USE it!! I'm sorry for being a smart-ass all the time (Ok, I'm not *really* sorry), but I just get tired of the age old *My dad can beat up your dad* debates. I like Macs, but I have a PC. I like the DVX and HVX, but I don't have one *yet*. I like Ferraris, but I have a Kia. Little things like that, you know!! I guess I just try to bring humor into everything!! It's my....uh....defense mechanism. :)

~reservoir~
 
Dofray said:
*** You're talking about UNCOMPRESSED HD?! Who uses that? George Lucas or Robert Rodriguez... with MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO SPEND!!!! ***
i don't speak about 4:4:4 expensive uncompressed, but 4:2:2 uncompressed for lot of treatment and compositing for anyone.
Click to expand...

I don't get what you mean by this... The HVX records HD in 4:2:2 by default. HDV records 4:2:0 only. The HVX is starting off with twice the color space than the Z1 or HD100.

I might be missing something here... If you get two 8GB P2 cards, you can record 16 minutes of 1080/24p, or 32 minutes of 720/60p, or 64 minutes of DVCPro50 (which is also in 4:2:2 but not HD). Also, it's still possible that the camera can record HD direct to hard disk, so you could conceivably buy an 80GB hard disk for very cheap, plug it in to the camera, and get 80 minutes of full out 1080/24p (we don't know for sure if this is possible; Panasonic hasn't confirmed or denied this yet.)
 
Dofray....just admit that you can't afford a HVX200 and that you just bought a crappy Canon and you're regretting it, thanks.
 
Loki said:
this is such a stupid thread
Click to expand...

62.73% of the HVX200 threads are either stupid, repetetive, meaningless, speculative to the point of exasperation, or just downright funny.

Maybe Jarred should *LOCK* the HVX200 forum for 6 months? "DO NOT OPEN until October 1st, 2005!! :(

~reservoir~

62.73% - Give or take a few %, as this was *NOT* a scientific study.
 
jrv3034 said:
I might be missing something here... If you get two 8GB P2 cards, you can record 16 minutes of 1080/24p, or 32 minutes of 720/60p, or 64 minutes of DVCPro50 (which is also in 4:2:2 but not HD).
Click to expand...
Not quite... 1080/24p and 720/60p take up the same amount of space on the card, so with two 8gb cards you'd get:
16 minutes of 1080 footage, or 16 minutes of 720/60p
40 minutes of 720/24p
32 minutes of DVCPRO50
64 minutes of DVCPRO25

Also, it's still possible that the camera can record HD direct to hard disk, so you could conceivably buy an 80GB hard disk for very cheap, plug it in to the camera, and get 80 minutes of full out 1080/24p (we don't know for sure if this is possible; Panasonic hasn't confirmed or denied this yet.)
Click to expand...
Right, but what *is* confirmed is that even if you can't record directly to the hard disk, you can still dub from the P2 card to the hard disk. So you could still get 80 minutes of 1080/24p on that $80 hard disk, you just may have to dub to it.

You definitely could record direct to hard disk through a laptop or other device (a new type of FireStore, maybe?) that supports 100-megabit data streams.
 
johnc said:
Sure wish Panasonic would get on the ball and post full specs on th HVX200. JVC has wasted no time in publishing a plethora of information about the HD100 on their web site.
Click to expand...
Keep in mind that the JVC was scheduled to come out in June (now July), and the HVX isn't expected to come out until 4Q (which means October at the earliest). That means the JVC is theoretically about 4 months further along in its development cycle.
 
Suggesting that the HVX costs $21,000 to get solid use out of it is ABSOLUTELY CRAZY.

Many video jobs won't require 7 P2 cards. Jeez, conventional cameras used to shoot most mainstream movies today have a magazine of film that lasts roughly between 10 and 24 minutes. What do the filmmakers do when they run out of film? They change the magazine! It's no big deal! Similiarly, many HVX users will simply fill up 1 or 2 P2 cards, and then swap in a 2nd or a 3rd, while they dump the contents of the filled cards to a hard drive. This downtime won't interrupt narrative filmmaking--ie, shooting scenes from a script--one bit. There's plenty of downtime already for moving the camera, talking to actors, applying makeup, etc, etc, etc.

Sure, working with 2 or 3 P2 cards may not work for *some* projects, but it will work just fine for many others. For those, the HVX looks pretty damn amazing (but the jury's still out until we can see footage).
 
k2director said:
What do the filmmakers do when they run out of film? They change the magazine! It's no big deal!
Click to expand...

HaHa. True. The price of a P2 card is about the same as a 200' magazine--without film. It's just a metal case that holds five minutes worth of film. They're 1400 bucks, each.

brian wells
 
reservoir said:
AMEN to that Pappas. I just get tired of the age old *My dad can beat up your dad* debates. I like Macs, but I have a PC. I like the DVX and HVX, but I don't have one *yet*. I like Ferraris, but I have a Kia.

~reservoir~
Click to expand...
You don't understand what i mean Resevoir. It's not an *My dad can beat up your dad* debate
i don't have any preferences for Canon or Sony or JVC. I like Panasonic, but i'm not blind. Love don't make me blind, so i just try to watch out with these new formats that all the manufacturers propose.

You talk about ferrari. But nowadays, with some complementary harware (BlackMagic, HDV Connect, etc...) you can have a good quality footage in your computer without ruin yourself. So talk about uncompressed video, isn't talk about expensive stuff
 
jrv3034 said:
I don't get what you mean by this... The HVX records HD in 4:2:2 by default. HDV records 4:2:0 only. The HVX is starting off with twice the color space than the Z1 or HD100.
Click to expand...
That's why i talk about Decklink.
I just want to know how much that costs me to have of the 4:2:2 in my computer with what the manufacturers propose to us today.
Indeed, you are right the HVX records HD 4:2:2. But at which price? cards P2 or Hard Drive in direct connection.

jrv3034 said:
Also, it's still possible that the camera can record HD direct to hard disk, so you could conceivably buy an 80GB hard disk for very cheap, plug it in to the camera, and get 80 minutes of full out 1080/24p (we don't know for sure if this is possible; Panasonic hasn't confirmed or denied this yet.)
Click to expand...

Let us take the example of 80 GB Hard Drive i.e. 80 minutes of 1080p.
When you only leave abroad to film documentary and that you want to bring back in your country 20 hours of images, how you make with a HVX, without you to encumber with a laptop and a large unit of 500 GB of storage which you would fill each evening?
Or with a HDV or ProHD which you can then quietly upconvertir into 4:2:2 thanks to BlackMagic? To leave with a hundred K7 is easier, less expensive, etc and you can despite everything finish with 4:2:2 in your computer.

I just try to launch a good debate and not something of stupid.
 
Loki said:
this is such a stupid thread
Click to expand...
THIS IS NOT A STUPID THREAD.
I want to know what that really implies to adopt the P2 format. And if it is not adopted, how to make and how much that costs to have the same result (at the end of the workflow) as DVCPROHD with the concurents.
 
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