HVX200 vs. DVX100b vs. XL-H1 -Frustratingly vague question

T

tomcam

Member
I am about to shoot a behind-the-scenese for an indie film starting April 12 (1 month continuous shooting), then two documentaries which I intend to take less time than that. In about a year and a half I plan to produce, but not probably not shoot, a relatively low-budget horror flick. I've never done anything like this before. My main goal is more to understand the filmmaking process than to become a full-time DP. I'm trying to decide between the DVX100b and the HVX200 in that light. Ironically, I have the money for the HVX200 but I don't want to get a camera better than I am! So here are my thoughts--I'd like correction on these.


HVX200 Pros & cons
- Better image
- P2 cards/Firestore way less convenient than tape; seemingly less reliable
- Better investment over next 5 years?
- More than twice as much to get started?

DVX100b Pros & cons
- Still pretty good image
- Tapes way cheaper & probably more reliable than P2/Firestore
- Seems to be right at the end of its model life (frustrating
- Seems to have better 3rd party products, such as Barry Green book

Canon XL-H1
- Shoots to HD tape, which I like, but I don't know much about it.

I am leaning strongly toward the DVX because AshG's "Strong Enough to Break" appears to show deinitively that it's the camera dude, not the camera, that makes the flick. I view his work as a huge inspiration and a challenge. The one thing that bugs me is that since this camera is like 4 years old I'm sure a new model will come out literally within a few weeks and make me want to kick myself. That said...

Is one particularly easier to learn than the other? Is the DVX100b still going to be plenty of camera for a documentary guy in 3 years? I'm thinking that the main use of the camera, shooting the BTS, will be greatly impeded by frequent stops to dump the HVX cards to disk, then to dump the disk to a bigger disk, and so on, and the last thing I want to be in a Behind the Scenes is more trouble to the crew than I'm worth!

I am quite fortunate that budget is not my primary consideration. But I'm going to be so busy trying to compose shots well & remembering everything about lighting, exposure, and so on that I prefer that ancillary issues such as erasing P2 cards not take up too much of my time.

Thanks, and sorry for the rambling.
 
I personally feel that HDV is too highly compressed. You are putting 60 minutes of HD footage in the same space as 60 minutes of SD footage.

The HVX still has a tape transport, and you can shoot SD to tape, meaning the HVX will give you the cost savings and quick changeover that you feel the HD solutions are lacking. But buying the HVX will give you HD quality when you choose to move to the P2/Firestore options, something the DVX cannot do.

You state that budget is not a primary consideration, so my opinion (for whatever it is worth) is that the HVX is a better solution in the long run.
 
You can still shoot to mini-DV tape on the HVX for the time being and move to P2 later on. Though mini-DV will still be SD.

If budget is not a concern then the HVX is the better way to go in my opinion. Gives you a DVX (with slightly better SD picture, slightly worse low-light performance) but still covers you when you are ready to make the jump to HD.
 
Thanks Warin & mjjason. I am also learning I can get a lot more time out of the card by shooting at 720, getting me close to an hour per 8GG card if I understand right. Plus I like the full 16:9 with no anamorphic adaptor. My plans have shifted to:

HVX200
3 P2 cards
P3 Store
Laptop & external drive

Thanks much, folks.
 
You only get about 20 mins per card at 720 24PN or 30PN. If you do not use the PN mode than you will get 8-10 mins per card. But like I said above, if mini-DV is acceptable than just shoot mini-dv with the HVX as it is similar to the DVX.

When the 32G P2 Cards are released (if at a reasonable price) than P2 will become a more accessible solution.
 
I'm interested in why you conclude that "p2 cards and the Firestore are way less convenient than tape; seemingly less reliable."

What support do you advance for this view?
 
mjjason said:
You can still shoot to mini-DV tape on the HVX for the time being and move to P2 later on. Though mini-DV will still be SD.

If budget is not a concern then the HVX is the better way to go in my opinion. Gives you a DVX (with slightly better SD picture, slightly worse low-light performance) but still covers you when you are ready to make the jump to HD.
Click to expand...
How much worse is low light performance of HVX when comparing with DVX?
 
Why haven't you considered the Canon A1. It shoots HD and SD also. The price is around that of a new DVX and you get to keep your tape workflow. Also in the review that was done on the HVX versus the A1 they say that there isn't much difference in the picture. You didn't say anything about slow mo or anything that would make me recommend a hvx. Get a Canon A1. Also you could get a hdv canon deck for $999 that doubles as a 1080p24 hdv camera.
 
Thanks for the clarification, mjjason. I got the duration of 8GB P2 cards wrong.

David S., good challenge. I am almost certain I read a thread on this forum with a fair number of people complaining of P2 card problems. I was surprised because I expected the opposite. Of course I can't find it now.

Nik Manning, thanks for the recommendation. I'll look up the Canon A1. I am not familiar with it.
 
Filip Staresinic said:
How much worse is low light performance of HVX when comparing with DVX?
Click to expand...

I have actually never used a DVX but from what I have heard the HVX is about 1 stop lower.
 
I think about one stop is right.

But I use the HVX in all kinds of situations, from shooting performances to run and gun, to fully lit productions of my own. I don't know about the canon, but to me if you have the money, there is no reason not to get the HVX over the DVX. You have everything the DVX has AND MORE. More options to work with.

The variable frame rates alone make the HVX a no-brainer in my opinion. You may not notice or care so much when shooting the BTS, but wait till you shoot your horror flick. The HD is INFINITELY better for narrative stuff. And the frame rates, etc.

P2 cards are fine. Never had any trouble with them. I have, however, purchased bad tapes from time to time...
 
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