HVX200 vs AVCCAM

[c3kings]

Dear All,

I am a HVX200 owner, and I like it.

But I wonder if I can replace my HVX200 by one of the new AVCCAM cameras also by Panasonic. Particularly, at this moment for my new job, if I still keep my HVX200, I need to put more than $1,000 for new eP2 cards and its reader.

AVCCAM can use SD card, and it saves a lot of money on storage. Also, someone told me that AVCCAM has 10bit image quality, instead of 8bit quality from HVX200. Do AVCCAM cameras have better image quality than P2HD cameras?

Please give me some advices.

Thanks.

King

 

[Richter Video Equipment]

My biggest problem with AVCCAM's is SD failure. If you search, you will find tons of reports where users lost all their shoot when a card failed. In the history of P2, they have almost never failed. Almost all if not all the p2 related failures were user error. Also older NLE are not compatible with AVCCAM. My old college recently bought (2) 70's and found out that their older versions of final cut didn't recognize the files. P2 is pretty expensive, but it has gotten cheaper. Compared to tapes, its a bargain. Compared to sd, its expensive, but your paying for a practically indestructible medium that is 100% reliable. Assuming you have a fast P2 reader you can also offload data faster then off SD. IMO p2 is the best medium available. I currently have several hvx 200's and a few 170's. They are great cameras and i would never trade them in for AVCCAM.

 

[c3kings]

I see. Thanks, Richter.

My biggest problem with AVCCAM's is SD failure. If you search, you will find tons of reports where users lost all their shoot when a card failed. In the history of P2, they have almost never failed. Almost all if not all the p2 related failures were user error. Also older NLE are not compatible with AVCCAM. My old college recently bought (2) 70's and found out that their older versions of final cut didn't recognize the files. P2 is pretty expensive, but it has gotten cheaper. Compared to tapes, its a bargain. Compared to sd, its expensive, but your paying for a practically indestructible medium that is 100% reliable. Assuming you have a fast P2 reader you can also offload data faster then off SD. IMO p2 is the best medium available. I currently have several hvx 200's and a few 170's. They are great cameras and i would never trade them in for AVCCAM.

 

[Barry_Green]

But I wonder if I can replace my HVX200 by one of the new AVCCAM cameras also by Panasonic. Particularly, at this moment for my new job, if I still keep my HVX200, I need to put more than $1,000 for new eP2 cards and its reader.

Well... if you look at it on a total expense level, you're talking about $1,000 worth of new gear, or $3,000 worth of new camera. Can you replace an HVX200 with an AVCCAM? For some things, yes, but not all. For example, none of the AVCCAM cameras (except the HMC80) support standard-def recording -- if you need standard-def, they just don't do it. The most direct replacement for an HVX200 would be the HMC150, and whether you would see better image quality depends on whether you have an HVX200 or an HVX200A. If you have a 200A, the images will be extremely similar between those two. If you have an original HVX200, you will likely see a noticeable improvement in image quality due to the better chips, better color reproduction and lower noise that the HVX200A/HMC150 have.

Also, someone told me that AVCCAM has 10bit image quality, instead of 8bit quality from HVX200.

Not true. AVCCAM is 8-bit. Panasonic has a higher-end format called AVC-Intra which is 10-bit, but that's only available in P2 cameras.

 

[Barry_Green]

My biggest problem with AVCCAM's is SD failure. If you search, you will find tons of reports where users lost all their shoot when a card failed. In the history of P2, they have almost never failed. Almost all if not all the p2 related failures were user error. Also older NLE are not compatible with AVCCAM. My old college recently bought (2) 70's and found out that their older versions of final cut didn't recognize the files. P2 is pretty expensive, but it has gotten cheaper. Compared to tapes, its a bargain. Compared to sd, its expensive, but your paying for a practically indestructible medium that is 100% reliable. Assuming you have a fast P2 reader you can also offload data faster then off SD. IMO p2 is the best medium available. I currently have several hvx 200's and a few 170's. They are great cameras and i would never trade them in for AVCCAM.

I agree with some of this (mainly the stuff about P2's indestructibility), but not all of it: SD failure isn't an AVCCAM problem, it's an issue created by people trying to cheap out on getting the cheapest memory cards. SD memory cards are not all created equal. There are better-quality cards out there, and there are junk cards, and (worst of all) there are absolute counterfeit fake cards. If you stick to the very best cards from the very best manufacturers (such as the SanDisk Extreme and the Panasonic Gold and perhaps the new Hoodman Raw Steel) you will basically never have a problem, or at least that's been my experience and the experience of many others.

If, on the other hand, you see that a SanDisk Extreme costs $100, and you find that you can get "the same card" on ebay for $60, well, you just created a problem for yourself. The odds are quite high that the ebay card is going to be a counterfeit, and those are much much much more prone to fail. Don't cheap out on your memory cards.

 

[c3kings]

Thanks a lot, Barry.

But I wonder as HVX200 has 100mb transfer rate, it should have better picture quality than HMC150. But it seems that it is not true.

Thanks.

Well... if you look at it on a total expense level, you're talking about $1,000 worth of new gear, or $3,000 worth of new camera. Can you replace an HVX200 with an AVCCAM? For some things, yes, but not all. For example, none of the AVCCAM cameras (except the HMC80) support standard-def recording -- if you need standard-def, they just don't do it. The most direct replacement for an HVX200 would be the HMC150, and whether you would see better image quality depends on whether you have an HVX200 or an HVX200A. If you have a 200A, the images will be extremely similar between those two. If you have an original HVX200, you will likely see a noticeable improvement in image quality due to the better chips, better color reproduction and lower noise that the HVX200A/HMC150 have.


Not true. AVCCAM is 8-bit. Panasonic has a higher-end format called AVC-Intra which is 10-bit, but that's only available in P2 cameras.

 

[David Jimerson]

But I wonder as HVX200 has 100mb transfer rate, it should have better picture quality than HMC150. But it seems that it is not true.

You will discover the difference when you go to color-correct or (especially) pull a chroma key. For starters.

 

[c3kings]

Thanks for your reply, David.
I see, so you are saying if I need to do color correction, HVX200 (not even 200A) is a better choice than HMC150. Am I correct?

You will discover the difference when you go to color-correct or (especially) pull a chroma key. For starters.

 

[David Jimerson]

DVCPRO HD has twice the color information, so yes, it takes to color correction better. Plus, more color info provides more apparent detail and less blockiness in the image.

That's the (an) answer to what you get with the higher bit rate. Camera choice is a much more complex decision that that, of course.

 

[c3kings]

Thanks, David.

"Camera choice is a much more complex decision that that, of course." I like it!!! very nicely put!!!!!

DVCPRO HD has twice the color information, so yes, it takes to color correction better. Plus, more color info provides more apparent detail and less blockiness in the image.

That's the (an) answer to what you get with the higher bit rate. Camera choice is a much more complex decision that that, of course.

 

[Richter Video Equipment]

I agree with some of this (mainly the stuff about P2's indestructibility), but not all of it: SD failure isn't an AVCCAM problem, it's an issue created by people trying to cheap out on getting the cheapest memory cards. SD memory cards are not all created equal. There are better-quality cards out there, and there are junk cards, and (worst of all) there are absolute counterfeit fake cards. If you stick to the very best cards from the very best manufacturers (such as the SanDisk Extreme and the Panasonic Gold and perhaps the new Hoodman Raw Steel) you will basically never have a problem, or at least that's been my experience and the experience of many others.

If, on the other hand, you see that a SanDisk Extreme costs $100, and you find that you can get "the same card" on ebay for $60, well, you just created a problem for yourself. The odds are quite high that the ebay card is going to be a counterfeit, and those are much much much more prone to fail. Don't cheap out on your memory cards.

Wow, Thanks for the info Barry...I had no idea there were counterfeits on the loose. I still wish they made a cam that could record to both slots at once like a mirrored raid just to put my mind at ease. If I do ever get an AVCCAM I will keep that in mind. 100 is still dirt cheap compared to p2.

 

[Richter Video Equipment]

Well... if you look at it on a total expense level, you're talking about $1,000 worth of new gear, or $3,000 worth of new camera. Can you replace an HVX200 with an AVCCAM? For some things, yes, but not all. For example, none of the AVCCAM cameras (except the HMC80) support standard-def recording -- if you need standard-def, they just don't do it. The most direct replacement for an HVX200 would be the HMC150, and whether you would see better image quality depends on whether you have an HVX200 or an HVX200A. If you have a 200A, the images will be extremely similar between those two. If you have an original HVX200, you will likely see a noticeable improvement in image quality due to the better chips, better color reproduction and lower noise that the HVX200A/HMC150 have.

I would think you would just about break even. If you buy a 150 plus SD it will be about 3000 but you can sell you 200 for around 2000 depending on how many hours and how much p2. If you stay with your 200 you'll be putting out 1000. either way it will cost you 1000.