HVX200 protoype at RESfest Los Angeles

Ralph Oshiro

Ralph Oshiro

Veteran
Just came back from RESfest Los Angeles and viewed HVX200-acquired playback on both a 1080i DLP projector and live images out of the camera (analog component out) on a 17" Panasonic HD LCD. No CRT playback was available. The engineering protoype camera was only capable of imaging 1080i. No "cine-gamma" or other film-like gamma settings were available. No gain settings were available. No 24P mode was available.

• Build quality/cosmetics very nice.
• Overall picture quality was excellent, and exceeded my expectations.
• Optics appeared excellent--no visible chromatic abberation whatsoever. Virtually no lens "breathing."
• Despite not having any cine-gamma modes available, the stock gamma of the 1080i signal looked very good.
• Exposure latitude, though not measured, appeared very good. Highlight compression looked natural and effective.
• Chroma noise was very slight. Much less noise than I had anticipated, although it is there. In the blues, blacks, and shadow area, there is visible noise, although, again, it's very slight. Nevertheless, the overall picture appears very, very clean. In what may be an unfair comparison, given the source footage and viewing conditions, at least in my opinion, the HVX200 looked an order of magnitude cleaner than the D-VHS playback of the JVC HD100 NYC footage shown at NAB2005.
 
I too saw all the same things that NBC is mentioning. The projected material wasn't anything that one would ever shoot to showoff a camera like the HVX, but despite just being something shot from a trade show floor, it was very promising. I was also amazed at the noise characteristics of this camera, especially for a blue subject in a high color temperature environment.

The ergonomic layout seemed even better than the DVX, the under LCD controls were well placed and the overall look of the camera was excellent for a camera in this price range.

Despite missing a great percentage of its features, I left very convinced that the HVX will easily meet or exceed my expectations for the camera. Now, I only can hope that they will release this camera in December as anticipated.
 
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Panasonic AG-HVX200 Engineering Prototype at RESfest Los Angeles 10.02.2005
 
A few interesting things Jan had to say at the RESfest booth (maybe this is all old news, but it's new to me):

• Jan is not at liberty to say the pixel dimensions of the HVX200's imager--it's her most often-asked, and her "most-tired-of-answering" query she gets.
• Price of 4GB P2 cards could come down to as low as $700-$800 by the time the camera ships in December (don't hold Jan to this).
• Price of 8GB P2 cards could also come down by the time the camera ships in December (don't hold Jan to this).
• Transfer of data from a P2 card via Firewire to a laptop, or via direct insertion into a laptop, will be faster than on a P2 Store. Depending on hardware, the transfer could possibly be anywhere from 2x-4x (don't hold her to that) faster than the transfer speed of the P2 Store.
• Transfer of data (NOT streaming while recording) from the HVX200's Firewire port would be possible to a standard, off-the-shelf Firewire HDD.
• Panasonic has NO plans to introduce a $12K-$15K price point 1/2" shoulder-mount camcorder anytime in the next 12 months.
• Panasonic DOES have plans to introduce a new $20K+ price point, shoulder-mount 2/3" DVCPRO-HD P2 camcorder sometime next year, one which would most directly compete with Sony's 1/2" XDCAM-HD product, which Sony recently announced.
• When I asked Jan if the HVX200 will lose sensitivity when changing from 60i to progressive mode (as the DVX100 does), her response was, "The Varicam doesn't do it [lose sensitivity when switching to progressive] . . . I've asked for that [to be the case] for the HVX200 as well." She doesn't know in the final version of the HVX200 if it will be able to match that capability that the Varicam has or not.
• By the way, the focus ring on the HVX I played with was silky smooth (the zoom ring a bit less so), and Jan said that the EVF will display, in addition to the index numbers, focus distances in both feet and meters.
 
P.S.

I've changed my mind about buying a Sony DSR450WSL. I'm buying a Panasonic HVX200. DVCPRO-HD here I come! DVCPRO-50, 720P, 60-frame, true slow-motion photography here I come!
 
Thanks, great stuff. Have you made any pictures of the camera output, like a monitor or a projector? If yes, could you somehow publish those pictures in their original format, so that we can inspect and analyse the camera quality in all details? Thanks :-)
 
Panasonic DOES have plans to introduce a new $20K+ price point, shoulder-mount 2/3" DVCPRO-HD P2 camcorder sometime next year, one which would most directly compete with Sony's 1/2" XDCAM-HD product, which Sony recently announced.
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Honey, about that car purchase. We don't need another car do we? I was thinking we invest our money elsewhere...

Hey NBC, thanks for the excellent photos and breakdown summary! All these positive reports coming back from RESFest, can't wait for December/January.
 
Edelweiss said:
Thanks, great stuff. Have you made any pictures of the camera output, like a monitor or a projector? If yes, could you somehow publish those pictures in their original format, so that we can inspect and analyse the camera quality in all details? Thanks :-)
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Duhhhh . . . I was GOING to shoot some photos, just off the LCD screen, but I didn't think they'd come out! I have a TINY piece of the screen in one shot . . . lemme find it.
 
Hellz bellz, that's crisp. Not sure if that's a testament to the overall image quality or the LCD screen. :cheesy:
 
NBCshooter said:
P.S.

I've changed my mind about buying a Sony DSR450WSL. I'm buying a Panasonic HVX200. DVCPRO-HD here I come! DVCPRO-50, 720P, 60-frame, true slow-motion photography here I come!
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Not to be contrary, but what's changed for you?
Here you said :
And the best thing about it? I'll have MUCH shallower depth-of-field capability with the larger CCDs. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the HVX200's 60fps high-speed capability and 100-mbit DVCPRO HD recording capability will be great, but it's STILL ONLY A 1/3" CCD CAMERA!!! PLUS, and possibly most importantly, I can still maintain my current DV workflow!!! Yayyyy!!! I'll FINALLY be a happy camper!!!

Yup, and that's what I've been MOST concerned about! "LIGHT!" Low-light, to be specific . . . I'll be way more confident with those big, fat 2/3" chips collecting all that light, when shooting my all night exterior, super-low budget 24P indie feature. Everything I shoot will be lit with ambient mercury vapor street lighting and small KinoFlos for fill. I'm REALLY going to need that f/11 sensitivity!
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I am facing similar buying decisions. I'm about 75% settled on the HVX, and a HD workflow, but am still looking at several alternatives.

Any insight would be appreciated. :beer:
 
D_and_G said:
Not to be contrary, but what's changed for you?
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1. Yup, previous to seeing today's demonstation, I was hell-bent on going for broke and blowing a ton of cash on a full-sized 2/3" camera. But the picture from the HVX200 is DAMN clean! Far cleaner than I had expected. The picture just blew me away. I was going to a 2/3" camera to get away from that "1/3-inch-camera-chroma-noise-problem" that I'd seen on every 1/3" camera previous to the HVX200. But this HVX200 looks goooooooood. The eyes-on demonstration today turned my decision in favor of the HVX.

2. Price/performance. For the DSR450WSL I was going to buy, I would be out $18K (including a $3K 20:1 Fuji), and it's only 4:1:1 and SD. This way, I save $8K, and gain 4:2:2 recording, HD resolution, and that ultra-bitchin' 720P, 60-frame, high-speed motion picture photography capability.

3. Form factor. Although I love the balance of a full-size camera, I actually really wanted to stay with the small camera form factor simply because it requires so much less rigging for exotic shots (e.g., vehicle mounts), and allows you to get angles not possible with full-sized camera bodies (e.g., car interiors, ultra-low angles, POVs, etc.).

On the other hand, the pluses about going with the 2/3" camera still holds very, very true. By going with the HVX200, I WON'T have that cool shallow depth of field as I would have had with the DSR450. And I WON'T have that terrific f/11 @ 2000 lux sensitivity characteristic of modern 2/3" cameras. I will definitely need MORE light for the HVX200 since from my observation, it is at LEAST one full stop less sensitive than the DVX100B I saw sitting right next to it. These are huge considerations, especially the sensitivity issue. But in the final analysis, I guess, the pros of the HVX200 outweigh my needs for these two qualities (which are real hard to give up).
 
There seem to be many options for 35mm lens adapter, including the P+S Technic which would put you right at the same price as your Sony. Yes the light loss is a shame but I'll trade a stop for all that I get with the HVX. And I don't mind a little noise so +3 Db will be no problem for me.
 
thisiswells said:
steadicams and cranes are also a whole lot cheaper for little cams than big cams!
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Yeah. I just bought a Steadicam Flyer. Its maximum camera load is 15 lbs. To use a DSR450 or similar camera on it, I would have to strip the mic, mic holder, and viewfinder, and I would have to power the camera from the brick on the sled. I would still be right on the edge in this configuration and it would limit me from adding further accessories to the camera (follow focus, obie lights, matte boxes, etc.)
 
evinsky said:
There seem to be many options for 35mm lens adapter, including the P+S Technic which would put you right at the same price as your Sony. Yes the light loss is a shame but I'll trade a stop for all that I get with the HVX. And I don't mind a little noise so +3 Db will be no problem for me.
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The P+S Technic, to me is not worth the light loss or the incredibly steep price tag (Guerilla 35, where are you???). The sensitivity will be an issue for me. I will definitely have to resort to employing the camera gain circuits (unfortunately!)--there goes my ultra-clean picture!
 
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