HVX200 footage ruined with color blocks / noise

J

Jedd

Member
I was shooting with a client using my standard workflow. 720/24pn to p2 card. When the cards were full I would dump them to a laptop via firewire. There was no indication in camera that I had a problem. When I got home a good third of my footage on the computer was ruined.

Here is a clip. http://www.jeddwinn.com/dvxuser/p2-color-blocks.mov

There are random color blocks showing up. Sometimes covering the whole screen for a few seconds.

I'm trying to diagnose the problem but I'm having a hard time duplicating it. At this point I don't know if its the camera, the p2 card, or the firewire cable.

Has anyone run into something like this before?
(I tried searching the forum but I get an out of memory server error.)

Thanks.
 
Yes, this happens (extremely infrequently, but it has been reported before), and it has nothing to do with your camera or your cards. It's in the way you transfer the files to the computer (and let me guess, it's an Apple computer, right?) Search the forums using the google search for "glitch" and you should find reams of info on it.

Basically, write-protect your cards immediately, don't let them anywhere near the computer if they're not write-protected. And use P2CMS to offload to an OSX computer, and turn on data verification. This problem happens when using an Apple computer and seems to be more likely if you're using an external firewire drive.
 
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Sorry Barry, but I think you are wrong here. I have seen this on footage, and on the ORIGINAL footage when played back in the camera. Jedd, play the cards back in the camera and look at the footage.

This is caused by dirty or blocked connectors in the camera or P2 card. Use canned air to try to clear it, and then shoot some tests.

Importing footage into FCP (on an Apple computer) has NEVER caused this issue. Always dirty connectors.

Look at the original footage and see for yourself. Even if you dont' have the cards, look at the card dumps with P2CMS.
 
thanks shane. im glad there is somebody else here to refute barrys constant knee-jerk, anti-mac, rhetoric.

for 3+ years i have used P2 cards. using drag and drop to transfer from both pcmcia and expresscard on various intel and ppc mac machines. i have never ever write protected my cards and never used any utility (other than quicktime player) to verify my transfers. if there was some inherent problem with macs in general - i would have seen it by now.
 
I do it a lot. He and I don't see eye to eye on a lot of things, but we still like each other (I think we do...I do). And we need some people answering these P2/Mac questions that aren't Mac/P2 haters. (hee, sorry Barry).
 
Thanks Barry.
This is my problem exactly and the solution looks relatively painless.

Shane, I never eject the cards. I always use firewire to dump them because my laptop doesn't have a PCMCI slot. That said, I will try cleaning the contacts anyway.

I have been using an apple with my hvx since... forever? and I have never had this problem up until now.
 
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Jedd said:
Thanks Barry.
This is my problem exactly and the solution looks relatively painless.
Click to expand...

And you guys were saying?

I have given up on "anti-apple rhetoric" but I will provide the actual answer to the question. wgzn, I appreciate you being here to help, but which answer actually helped Jedd... "it doesn't happen when I do it?" Or "here's your problem, it affects a few users, you appear to be one of them"?

And Shane, no it wasn't caused by dirty connectors. Why are you guys so adamant in denying an obvious situation that has been talked about here on this forum for over three years?

Get over it. The Apple computer can OCCASIONALLY show a glitch when transferring files over. We've had it reported by dozens and dozens of users, and we've developed a two-prong approach that has solved the problem for EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM.

So please drop the "Barry has an anti-apple rhetoric" line, and let's get down to helping people solve the real problem please.

And the solution is always: write-protect your cards, use data-verified copy programs, and the problem is exacerbated when you use external firewire drives.

And if it doesn't happen to you? Great, be happy, you're part of the 99% of the market that it doesn't affect. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen to the 1%.

But I am here to help the folks that have that 1% problem. And if you guys don't want me here doing that? Then please solve these folks problems first, before I step in.

Agreed?

Thank you for your cooperation.
 
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and im not trying to slag on barry. he seems like a very bright and thoughtful guy. which is why i find his whole "salem witch" stance on the mac subject quite surprising...
 
Shane Ross said:
He and I don't see eye to eye on a lot of things, but we still like each other (I think we do...I do).
Click to expand...
I like Shane just fine, and I'm glad he comes here to help.

And we need some people answering these P2/Mac questions that aren't Mac/P2 haters. (hee, sorry Barry).
Click to expand...
PLEASE! For the love of pete, yes, please. I would love nothing more than to never have to visit this section again.

But if your answers don't actually address the individual's problem, you've got to be open to what the real answer is. And the real answer is obvious here, and has been for years. There's a problem, whether it's Apple's support of FAT32, or external firewire devices, there's a rare but recurring problem. And the solution is data-verified copying, although write-protecting does seem to help.
 
wgzn said:
and im not trying to slag on barry. he seems like a very bright and thoughtful guy. which is why i find his whole "salem witch" stance on the mac subject quite surprising...
Click to expand...
"Salem witch"? Sorry, it's a long-documented, obvious, and defeatable problem.
 
Barry_Green said:
Yes, this happens (extremely infrequently, but it has been reported before), and it has nothing to do with your camera or your cards. It's in the way you transfer the files to the computer (and let me guess, it's an Apple computer, right?) Search the forums using the google search for "glitch" and you should find reams of info on it.

Basically, write-protect your cards immediately, don't let them anywhere near the computer if they're not write-protected. And use P2CMS or ShotPut Pro to offload to an OSX computer, and turn on data verification. This problem happens when using an Apple computer and seems to be more likely if you're using an external firewire drive.
Click to expand...

Shotput Pro? Solve the glitch with a software company thats shafted customers in

the past? C'mon. Don't rob Peter to pay Paul.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=177391
 
FWIW - i didnt hear jedd saying his problem was solved.

what im (passively) hoping to achieve on the subject barry, is for some other mac user (who has the problem) to pop up with their workflow. because im am absolutely certain that this is a problem people are creating for themselves. i dont know if its down the alley of shanes advice and they are just shooting in a dirty environment. maybe leaving their slot cover open. screen savers kicking in. background apps. storing their cards near a monitor. in their car or maybe kicking a nun in a past life.

i dont know what it is. but it isnt by definition a mac problem
 
wgzn said:
FWIW - i didnt hear jedd saying his problem was solved.
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Was it not at least a little indicative that once again, when this issue comes up, it was from a person using OSX? Like it has every single time it has come up, every time we've heard of it, for years?

The problem may not be at the core of OSX, but it is an issue that exclusively affects users of that OS. It does not, obviously, affect all of them, it probably affects 1/2 of 1% or less. But the problem is repeatedly and easily diagnosable, as is the cure for it.

what im (passively) hoping to achieve on the subject barry, is for some other mac user (who has the problem) to pop up with their workflow. because im am absolutely certain that this is a problem people are creating for themselves. i dont know if its down the alley of shanes advice and they are just shooting in a dirty environment. maybe leaving their slot cover open. screen savers kicking in. background apps. storing their cards near a monitor. in their car or maybe kicking a nun in a past life.
Click to expand...

Now, if we could ever find out what actually causes it? That'd be awesome. It'd be great if we could say "your issue is that you're using Perian" or something, that'd be fantastic.

And yes, I'd love to see someone step forward with an absolutely repeatable case of "the glitch" and someone who has never had "the glitch" get together, observe each other's workflow, and solve this once and for all. That would be the ideal solution, I agree completely.

Until then, I offer the band-aid fix that has seemed to get everyone past it, which is to write-protect the cards and use a data-verified copy program.

i dont know what it is. but it isnt by definition a mac problem
Click to expand...
Well, I do know that it is by definition a problem that only affects users of that particular platform. That's not the same as saying that the OS is inherently flawed/broken/useless, nor do I accept that it is holy and flawless -- all I know is that the users themselves are having an issue, and we have identified ways to stop it.

It would be ideal if we could, as you wish, find what the actual common element is and eliminate it once and for all. That would be the ideal solution.
 
I'd like to wait and see what the actual solution was. I have seen this with dirty heads only. I have never seen this happen with the L&T import in FCP, nor with corruption on the card via not copy protecting. I might have missed those posts. I do know that you MUST copy protect your cards before putting them into a Mac, because the Mac instantly writes hidden files to the card. But I didn't think that those hidden files caused THIS issue. I know it causes other issues.

I also swear by ShotPut pro. What glitch? Shafted customers?

If the weird colors are on the card, or the card dumps, then it is most likely dirty heads. If it isn't on the cards, but on the FCP imports..then I'll believe in the "mac screwed it up" theory.
 
I am in TOTAL agreement that you need to write protect the cards when putting into a Mac. it is a well known/documented issue that the OS writes files to the cards that can cause issues.
 
Barry_Green said:
Whether you agree with their policies or not, the program will work to solve the problem. At least as a band-aid.
Click to expand...

Well, it's not my intent to hijack this thread. I can just imagine (pun) the response from some folks if Apple violated their TOS agreement on any of their products.

Major software manufacturers will sue users that violate the terms of service of the products they sell. They consider the exchange of money at purchase to seal the agreement between the parties involved.

To equate Imagine Products violation of their own TOS for Shotput to that of a "policy" is a disservice plain and simple.

The discussion below speaks for itself as lawyers are fond of saying.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=177391
 
Shane Ross said:
If it isn't on the cards, but on the FCP imports..then I'll believe in the "mac screwed it up" theory.
Click to expand...
We have had dozens of reports of exactly this. We have only had one instance ever of the corruption occurring actually on the cards and being visible in footage played from camera, and that was a hardware issue that required servicing of the camera.
 
AH, Al, thanks for that. I forgot about that incident...since I bought Pro. All the crap that happens when companies go to great lengths to protect from piracy.

Barry...I'll believe you. I don't hang out here as much, nor have I shot/edited with P2 as much as I would have liked lately (still in HDV hell), so I'll take your word on it. Tough when you were so ANTI Mac about everything.

WRITE PROTECT YOUR CARDS!
 
I'd like to digress to the original clip. On occasion when working with tape (yeah, remember that tape thing?) I would do a FW deck transfer into FCP, and I would see the same issues with DVCProHD video being corrupted. Sometimes the issue would be on tape, sometimes not.

Additionally, I have seen the same problem on a firestore that was bumped while shooting.

And, based on some of what is on page 1 of the thread, it happens with p2 as well.

So, I think what we may be witnessing isn't inherently a problem, but rather the way encoding issues manifest in a DVCPro HD stream.

Right? Or am I cracking up?
 
Where is Jedd? Would like to get a status update on this and see if his issues was fixed.
 
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