HVX workflow questions, HELP ME. AHHHHHH!

[JZalutsky]

haha, ok, im about to start production on a short film and we plan to rent an hvx to shoot. I have spent about the last 3days researching online trying to figure out exactly how to make this work....and well.....I havent found many deffinte answers on anything.


My first question is about formats, we plan to shoot 720/24p. but I also saw there is a 720pn, why is there a pn, i thought 720p was true proggresive and therefore no pulldown would be neeeded so you could infact have 24true frames of video. I also heard there are some problems with horizantal lines in pn, we plan to submit this film to festivals and have it projected digitally, there are no plans of ever transfering to film so should i even bother with pn? also what format am I recording in with 720/24p is it dvcpro hd 50...are there options?

continuing with the format issues.....how do i get this stuff on a computer....

Ok, the biggest thing ive been trying to find out is what version of final cut I need I have heard everything from 5.0 will work to you absolutly need 5.1 so im at a lose.
Will 5.0 work? we have machines with 5.0, but 5.1 would be an issue for us.
what is the best way to capture 720/24p footage (i know u can either ingest or capture)....capture presets? if its not dvcprohd 50 what is it....cause i know there is a dvcprohd 24p preset in final cut....even my version 4.5 has that. Any drivers to download to make this stuff work, software?


Ok thats everything ahah, I know I asked a whole lot of stuff in there but if anyone can give me some deffinte answers on any of that I would greatlly appreciate it. Or if you could just explain to me how i should go about doing this best?


Anything at all will help



Thanks alot to anyone who takes the time to respond, I seriously greatly appreciate it....this has been one huge headache, AND WERE FILMING NEXT WEEK AHHHHHHH! ha. thanks again!



-Jake Zalutsky

 

[SomewhereinLA]

5.1 is a free update, why would it be and issue? My understanding is that 24p has a pull down which need to be recompressed to 24 frames, 24pa is true 24, but not all NLE, such as final cut, can deal(yet) with 24pa which is a newer and better format.

 

[Jeff Deveraux]

Don't feel bad bro'. Most people have difficulty wrapping their head around the P2 workflow until they have actually worked with it a bit.

Let me start by saying that there's no difference between 720/24p and 720/24pn in the end. The difference is in the P2 recording. When you record to the P2 card, and record 720/24p you get 1 min. per gig. When you set the camera in 720/24pn (the n stands for native) you get 2 1/2 min per gig. The reason for this is in pn mode the camera removes all the unused (redundant) frames for you instead of having it done in the NLE. Thus, only taking up about 40% of the space required for regular 24p footage. Let me put it another way... You got 60 frames of video in one second of footage. People often say video is 30 frames per second (or 29.97fps), but you have two fields for each frame. Hence the term 60i. Now, when you record 24p the camera is providing the pulldown by putting a "flag" on the appropriate frames. These flags instruct the NLE, or the viewing apparatus, to only view "these" frames. With pn footage the camera goes a step further and removes the frames that are not to be viewed. This is for storage purposes only. When the pn footage is being output to... whatever, the extra frames needed to create a 60i time base are replaced.
Now as far as the horizontal lines go in pn mode, this is the first I have heard of it. I've had my HVX since January. I've shot a ton of footage with it. And I've never had a problem of that nature.
If you're still wondering weather or not to shoot in pn, it really depends on your resources and what you plan to do on shoot day. There are so many workflow options with the HVX. Feel free to pm me and we can throw some ideas around.
I have FCP 5.0.4 and it works fine for me. I have read that 5.1 has worked out some bugs and works better. And yes... FCP 4.5 can work with the DVCPROHD codec, but not with P2 footage. The DVCPROHD footage on the P2 card is put in what is called a wrapper. Quicktime is another type of wrapper. The wrapper on a P2 card is called a MFX. FCP will not recognize MXF files in 4.5 or any other version. When Apple came out with FCP 5 and above, they introduced a way to convert the MXF files to Quicktime. However, in 4.5 you can skip the "ingest" method and log and capture the old fashioned way (with a few differences).
Also, 720p footage is DVCPROHD aka...DVCPRO100. So is 1080i. DVCPRO50 is 480i, at least in NTSC land.
It's late and I must shoot tomorrow. Like I said before, PM me and I can help you further with specifics.

Good luck with the shoot Jake.

 

[Barry_Green]

5.0 will not work. 5.0.4 is a free update and will work. 5.1 is not a free update but it's better and you'd be better off to get it.

 

[VaricamLife]

Welcome to P2 land...

Welcome to P2 land...

Final Cut Pro version - being that even Apple admits issues with P2 and FCP 5.0.4 you really should consider upgrading to 5.1. Yes, there are clearly those around that seem to be fine with 5.0.4, but search this forum or just Google around and you'll find lots of people that also ran into plenty of issues using 5.0.4 and P2.

24p vs 24pn - Jeff covered this well, all I have to say is that you might like to shoot with 24pn (in addition to saving storage space) because it gives you a more simplisitc post production workflow. If you shoot with 24p (or a 24pa - advanced) you have to deal with removing the redundant frames (pull down). If you shoot with 24pn, the camera has already done this for you. All you have to do is set your timeline to 23.98 and you're off and running. Not projecting to film shouldn't be the factor determining 24p vs 24pn, it doesn't really come into play in that consideration.

Getting P2 footage onto a computer - you have a variety of options...

You can just fill up your cards and then connect the camera to a laptop and ingest right away using FCP (either directly or combined with a P2 Genie/P2 Log workflow). When using FCP, just use the Import P2 command and you're off and running.

You can transfer the materials from full cards to a P2 store and then download and ingest materials at the end of the day (again using a laptop, or using your actual editing workstation).

You can shoot to a hard drive unit like a Firestore (FS-100). Then transfer those materials over at the end of the day (again laptop or workstation).

You could connect the camera to an AJ-1200 and dump the materials DVCPro DP-121 or DP-1001 cassettes if you want a) a tape backup and/or b) a tape workflow for 'old fashioned' logging and loading purposes or c) and offline/online workflow.

Lots of options with the P2 workflow. You just need to decide what will be most efficient and comfortable for you. And also perhaps what will be most affordable. If you decide on a workflow just ask/search around and you'll be able to find a detailed description as to the various aspects of that workflow.

As for FCP settings. Just go to your Easy Setups and chose DVCPRO HD 720p24 and you'll be all setup. The only thing that would need to be tweaked later on is if you actually capture (rather than ingest) anything that is shot using a variable frame rate. In that case switch the capture setting to 720p60 and then use the Frame Rate Convertor.

The one thing you didn't ask about though, and that you need to worry about most of all (in the post end) is your backup workflow. Whether it be DVD-R, BD-R, DLT, Hard drives, or DVCPro cassettes, you need to make sure you have some form of backup workflow in place. If you scroll around this forum or others, the biggest headache/nightmare scenario of all you can find is losing footage because of a lack of backup. Save the LastClip.txt file always, and save the raw Contents folder with the MXFs always and you should be okay.

cheers.