Hvx vs hpx vs ag ac vs hmc

C

Cal5221

Member
Let's say I have a budget of 2500$, I film skateboarding/skiing/snowboarding, have a MacBook Pro with adobe premier, aspire to film things like weddings, music videos, commercials etc and I am battling between these cameras. My dream is to be able to get the ag ac160a or hpx250 but they're too pricey right now. So with that said I am fighting over 1.hpx170(1800$+) or ag ac130a($2500+) 2. Hvx200a (1200$+) 3.hmc 150 (1900$+) 4. Ag ac90a (1700$+)
I need something that can fit and look good with a big fisheye! I've also look into the ag af100 with interchangeable lenses. If anyone has any insight for my purchase that'd be great. I'd like to know which is best regardless of price and which is best for the price + which would be best for me and why!
thanks
-Cal
 
Try not to double post your threads next time.

Do any of these cameras have high enough frame rates for your action videos? The max on all of them is 60. And most of them cannot do 1080p, which has become the base standard. Will that be a deterrent for you?
Your fisheye comment is confusing me about whether these camcorders allow for lenses changes. Do they? If so, make sure to leave enough money for lenses. If buying the ag ac130a would leave you with little left, then that wouldn't be a smart decision.

But as you are wanting to move into more commercial/popular styles of filmmaking, I'd personally steer away from these formats and instead choose a GH4, a7s, or a similar camera. However, those do cost more with the necessary rigs and accessories.
 
iamlance said:
Try not to double post your threads next time.

Do any of these cameras have high enough frame rates for your action videos? The max on all of them is 60. And most of them cannot do 1080p, which has become the base standard. Will that be a deterrent for you?
Your fisheye comment is confusing me about whether these camcorders allow for lenses changes. Do they? If so, make sure to leave enough money for lenses. If buying the ag ac130a would leave you with little left, then that wouldn't be a smart decision.

But as you are wanting to move into more commercial/popular styles of filmmaking, I'd personally steer away from these formats and instead choose a GH4, a7s, or a similar camera. However, those do cost more with the necessary rigs and accessories.
Click to expand...

Sorry I'm just trying to get as many opinions as possible, the frame rates don't truly matter for filming action sports unless you're trying to get an ultra HD slow mo which isn't what I want. I almost want the opposite of that style because everyone is doing that today. What's most important is that it isn't a CMOS sensor and instead a 3ccd or 3mos sensor, with that being said what is my best choice from all the ones I listed above?
 
I haven't used the ac90 so can't comment on that one,
if your wanting 3 x CCD and your on a budget I'd go for the HMC150, it shoots to SD cards and isn't bad in low light,
BUT it doesn't shoot true 1080, AFAIK it upscales from a 720 chip so the image sometimes looks soft on the wide end - but I've shot wedding, corporates etc on it and you can get good results,
if you could live with the CMOS the AC130 would be your best choice
I used to have an HVX200 (awful in low light) then an HPX170 (P2 equivalent of the HMC150) , and the image/color is nicer but the P2 recording media is way overpriced,
I now have an AC160 and it is a great cam
 
The AC90 is a great camera for daylight, but not as suitable for indoors. For daylight skateboard stuff it'd be great, but for your other stated uses, it wouldn't be as good as the others. The HVX200 is relatively ancient as compared to the other choices. The HPX170 and HMC150 are the same generation camera, and they're both excellent balance and a great combination of features, but again, rather old -- they were introduced in around 2008. The AC130A is a superior camera to all of them, but it's the most expensive of your choices and it's comparatively huge.
 
I second Barry's advice. If you can't afford the AC130A I would go for the HPX170. You should be able to get one in excellent shape for around $1300.
 
TubEfingers said:
I haven't used the ac90 so can't comment on that one,
if your wanting 3 x CCD and your on a budget I'd go for the HMC150, it shoots to SD cards and isn't bad in low light,
BUT it doesn't shoot true 1080, AFAIK it upscales from a 720 chip so the image sometimes looks soft on the wide end - but I've shot wedding, corporates etc on it and you can get good results,
if you could live with the CMOS the AC130 would be your best choice
I used to have an HVX200 (awful in low light) then an HPX170 (P2 equivalent of the HMC150) , and the image/color is nicer but the P2 recording media is way overpriced,
I now have an AC160 and it is a great cam
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This is what I don't get- ac90 is 3mos and films in 1080x60p, yet the 130 is CMOS and doesn't film 1080x60p. This being said I think I'm gonna go for the hpx170, unless I can get a blessing of a deal for the hpx250 or ac160. If only the 130 was 3mos and filmed 1080x60p.... :(
Anymore insight helps!
 
Barry_Green said:
The AC90 is a great camera for daylight, but not as suitable for indoors. For daylight skateboard stuff it'd be great, but for your other stated uses, it wouldn't be as good as the others. The HVX200 is relatively ancient as compared to the other choices. The HPX170 and HMC150 are the same generation camera, and they're both excellent balance and a great combination of features, but again, rather old -- they were introduced in around 2008. The AC130A is a superior camera to all of them, but it's the most expensive of your choices and it's comparatively huge.
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Thanks a bunch barry! But I am trying to avoid the CMOS sensor which i thought the 130 didn't have! How would you compare the hpx250 to all of these cameras? Anymore camera suggestions would be very helpful!


Edit: is the ac130a CMOS or 3mos? It says on over view on B&H "1/3" 2.2 MP 3MOS Sensor"
but then in the specs "Image Device 3x 1/3-type progressive 2.2 MP CMOS
Prism color separation" someone explain this to me if they can!
 
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Mark Williams said:
I second Barry's advice. If you can't afford the AC130A I would go for the HPX170. You should be able to get one in excellent shape for around $1300.
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i think that's what I'm gonna do!! I'm using it mostly for skiing/snowboarding/skateboarding, so there will be a lot fast panning, follow cam shots (with fisheye), and fast moving subjects in general and what I've heard of the rolling shutter effect in CMOS is really scaring me away. Should it? My wish list is a 3ccd or 3 mos that can do 1080x60p and is somewhat good in low light. Is that too much to ask for? :'(
 
Update: Dreaming of the hpx250 and ag160, but I have slimmed it down to ac130 and hpx170. Any other suggestions for what I am looking to shoot (posted above) are greatly appreciated.
 
Global shutter on the HPX170 spoiled me in many respects. I was very apprehensive when I acquired the GH4 with its rolling shutter and have had to modify my shooting style to accommodate it. A lot of folks have successfully shot skateboarding/skiing/snowboarding vids with the HPX170. Its auto-focus is pretty decent. Keep in mind that 1080p on the HPX170 uses pixel shift technology. If you continue to be interested the HPX170 also count in the cost of dedicated P2 media cards. You can find them used to save a few bucks. Also study the image quality of the HPX vs. more modern cameras. You can check out my older HPX vids compared to the newer GH4 here https://vimeo.com/channels/3523
 
Cal5221 said:
Thanks a bunch barry! But I am trying to avoid the CMOS sensor which i thought the 130 didn't have! How would you compare the hpx250 to all of these cameras? Anymore camera suggestions would be very helpful!
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The HPX250 is more camera than any of them. It's generally the same size, shape, and probably the same sensors as the AC130, but with a more robust recording media and higher quality codecs. For your stated purposes, I don't know that the 250 would necessarily offer enough more over the 130 to justify the cost.

If you want CCD, the best bang for the buck from the group you mentioned is the HMC150. The HVX200 should probably be ruled right out, as the HPX170 is everything the 250 was, and more, in a much more ergonomic package. The HMC150 is basically the same camera as the HPX170, but with a cheaper recording format, and missing some things like variable frame rates. If you need VFR, or the reliability that P2 offers, go for the 170 over the 150. If you don't need VFR, you can save some money and record on cheap SD cards with the 150.

The 130 is a newer-generation camera, produces much sharper images, has a longer zoom range, and is generally a better camera than the 150. However, it's much bigger and more expensive, so you'd have to determine how those factors play into what your intended uses are.
 
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One note here that has been glazed over without mention; the P2 cams record to an I-frame codec. Each frame is a full frame of information. The SD card cams, like the 90, 130 and 160, record to AVCHD which is a more compressed long top codec. I own Panny cams that record to each. For action, recording to an I-frame codec is superior IMHO, better results recording action and editing as well.

One other note worth mentioning, there were two different models of the HVX200, the original, and the 200A model. The 200A has the same improved chipset as the HPX170 and has some other updated features which I can't remember just now. The 170 has better features than the 200A, but the image should be very similar except for whatever differences there is in the lens.

Although many knock these older Panny cams for not being as sharp as the newer MOS cams, you can still make good images with them. And the 170 in particular has many great features like waveform monitor, SDI out, and the ability to upload direct to a powered hard drive without a CPU. P2 cards are somewhat reasonable on the used market if you can live with 32Gig. The newer P2 cams need larger cards due to larger files, making the used 32Gb cards more affordable than the larger variants.

Grant
 
The AC130 uses the same 3MOS sensor array as the AC160. They are very similar "sister" models with the AC130 sacrificing a few features to sell at a lower price.

I would think 1080p60 capability would be very important for skating videos. But I don't think there's any CCD camera that supports it, and among those on your initial list, it's only available on the AC90. The AC90 is also a good deal smaller than the others you're considering, which would be an advantage for your work. It's a relatively recent, current model, available new. Therefore, that would be my recommendation -- despite the MOS sensor limitations and relatively weak low light sensitivity.

I saw a used AC90 sell for about $650 on eBay the other day, BTW.

- Greg
 
Mark Williams said:
Global shutter on the HPX170 spoiled me in many respects. I was very apprehensive when I acquired the GH4 with its rolling shutter and have had to modify my shooting style to accommodate it. A lot of folks have successfully shot skateboarding/skiing/snowboarding vids with the HPX170. Its auto-focus is pretty decent. Keep in mind that 1080p on the HPX170 uses pixel shift technology. If you continue to be interested the HPX170 also count in the cost of dedicated P2 media cards. You can find them used to save a few bucks. Also study the image quality of the HPX vs. more modern cameras. You can check out my older HPX vids compared to the newer GH4 here https://vimeo.com/channels/3523
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Awesome thanks. I think I am fully devoted to the hpx because I can get it used for about 1500-2000 with p2 cards which saves me room for a nice fisheye and other equipment. I plan on getting a HDSLR to compliment the hpx in the future and I'm sure the gh4 would be a good contender. Thanks for the help
 
Barry_Green said:
The HPX250 is more camera than any of them. It's generally the same size, shape, and probably the same sensors as the AC130, but with a more robust recording media and higher quality codecs. For your stated purposes, I don't know that the 250 would necessarily offer enough more over the 130 to justify the cost.

If you want CCD, the best bang for the buck from the group you mentioned is the HMC150. The HVX200 should probably be ruled right out, as the HPX170 is everything the 250 was, and more, in a much more ergonomic package. The HMC150 is basically the same camera as the HPX170, but with a cheaper recording format, and missing some things like variable frame rates. If you need VFR, or the reliability that P2 offers, go for the 170 over the 150. If you don't need VFR, you can save some money and record on cheap SD cards with the 150.

The 130 is a newer-generation camera, produces much sharper images, has a longer zoom range, and is generally a better camera than the 150. However, it's much bigger and more expensive, so you'd have to determine how those factors play into what your intended uses are.
Click to expand...


Looks like I am going with the hpx170 and most likely a 16x9 EXII fisheye. I plan on matching this setup with a hdslr in the future. Anymore suggestions on lenses or other gear that can compliment this setup is appreciated. Thanks!
 
I think you will like the HPX 170 and fisheye. I have some HMC150s and like them a lot. I also have an EXII wide lens and like it as well though I don't use it much. I'm still sort of a CCD guy :)

I also mount Sony Action Cams on the hood of my cameras to get an extra wide angle view and it has been extremely useful. They can record 1080 60P, 720 120P and the new ones can do 1080 120P. I often find myself intercutting the footage between the cams although plan on some post color matching.

The HPX170 and HMC150 aren't the sharpest cameras around but their 720P looks great and 1080 varies. I find the full wide outdoor landscape 1080 footage not great, but the rest usually is pretty good. Global shutter so no rolling shutter issue!
 
firehawk said:
I think you will like the HPX 170 and fisheye. I have some HMC150s and like them a lot. I also have an EXII wide lens and like it as well though I don't use it much. I'm still sort of a CCD guy :)

I also mount Sony Action Cams on the hood of my cameras to get an extra wide angle view and it has been extremely useful. They can record 1080 60P, 720 120P and the new ones can do 1080 120P. I often find myself intercutting the footage between the cams although plan on some post color matching.

The HPX170 and HMC150 aren't the sharpest cameras around but their 720P looks great and 1080 varies. I find the full wide outdoor landscape 1080 footage not great, but the rest usually is pretty good. Global shutter so no rolling shutter issue!
Click to expand...


thanks for the help. Can I see some footage with the action cam mount on top? I'm very curious to what that looks like, I own a gopro hero 4 silver so maybe that can do the same thing? Thanks again
 
Get a used AF100 and stick whatever fisheye lens you want on it. They shoot actual 1080p/60 and are quite cheap second hand. They're good in low light, built in ND etc.
 
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