HVX Solution We've All been waiting for - iStore

Nathan Beaman

Well-known member
Here it is, the HVX solution we’ve all been looking for – a cheap, reliable and personally I think better alternative to finicky P2 Stores and the cumbersome FS-100. People have been trying to find a battery-powered portable drive system to be able to dump their P2 footage while in the field. Unfortunately most of the products on the market are only available with a USB bus – which isn’t supported by the HVX200 in Host mode and I have yet to find an affordable drive that can act itself as a USB host. It would seem that the simplest answer to this puzzle is to find a self-powered portable drive with a supported firewire bus to link into the HVX200’s native 1394 Host mode – and if possible shock resistant for those run and gun shoot days we’re all far too familiar with. People have been frantically searching for this self-powered pocket sized firewire hard drive since the HVX200 came on the market – it’s been right in front of us all along.

The Answer: 4th Generation and older iPods.

With the release of the Video iPod Apple disabled the firewire interface on the iPod for any use other than use as a power source, but the earlier iPods are dependent upon this firewire interface – as they used to be an Apple focused product and have since switch to USB 2 to appeal to a wider PC market.

I am using a 60GB iPod Photo in this tutorial.

Now let’s make an iStore!

Step 1: Get yourself a 4th Generation iPod with an iPod to 6 pin firewire interface.
Step 2: Pick up a 6 pin to 4 pin firewire adapter – if the demand grows I may potentially just make an all in 1 cable.
Step 3: Reset the iPod and start it up in Target Disk mode. This not absolutely necessary but I find it most reliable in this situation. You do so by switching the hold button on, then off. Immediately after press and hold both the Menu and Select buttons at the same time. Hold them for 6 seconds. This will reset the iPod. After the reboot, the Apple Logo appears on the screen – Immediately press and hold the Select and Play buttons at the same time. Once again do this for 6 seconds and it will boot up in target mode. It could take you a couple tries to get the timing of this but be patient – once again you can actually skip this as the iPod will force itself into Target Disk mode once recognized by the HVX – but it is good to now these simple iPod commands if you’re going to be using this a lot.
Step 4: Set your HVX PC mode to 1394 Host. This is in the “Other Functions” Menu
Step 5: Put your camera into PC Mode by first making sure that the P2/Tape switch is on P2 and then tapping the toggle button to get into MCR mode – then hold until it boots into HOST mode.
Step 6: Connect the iPod to the 1394 port on the HVX using your adapter.
Step 7: Format the HDD
Step 8: The HVX recognizes your new iStore and you’re ready to dump.
Step 9: After Dumping – power off the camera to disconnect. You’ll notice that your iStore keeps rebooting when not connected to a host. This is because there is no longer an OS and it is rebooting in search of one. It is important to switch the HOLD button to the on position to stop this rebooting. It should take effect the first cycle after you initiate it.
Step 10: Connect to your computer. Similar to a P2 Store each dump will mount as it’s own P2 Volume. After a moment you will notice all the icons change to iPod icons and that iTunes opens. Close iTunes and for heaven’s sake don’t do anything with it. You may even want to disable the automatic open feature in iTunes. The icons change because your computer will start to recognize the Apple contaminated HD with its permanent iPod tag – you will always see the iPod source when looking at disc information.

A few things to note about this process before dong this:

The HVX will operate in a verify mode, just as the P2 Store. It will check the validity of the transferred data and notify you of any corruptions in the copy before you delete your master. Of course this added security almost doubles the transfer times. You can enable/disable this feature on the HVX while in HOST mode.

This solution is far more shock resistant than a P2 store and allows you to avoid having to record and deal with all the extra GBs that a Firestore sticks you with by making you use 24p at 59.94 over 24pn mode (1394 external is disabled while shooting in 24pn mode - making it impossible to utilize an external 1394 record device)

The HVX200 Host mode formatting will treat this 60GB iPod so that it operates in a mode very similar to the Panasonic 60 GB P2 Store. The Host mode formats a drive into 15 equal partitions – so a 60GB iPod is ideal for 4 GB cards as you will end up with 15 4GB partitions.

Each time you dump a card it entirely eats up a partition. So if you dump a 4GB card that only has 1.8GB of data on it, it will still reserve 4GB of space on the drive. Likewise, an 8GB card will take up 2 4GB partitions and regardless of how much data is on that card it will take up 2 partitions. So basically dump the cards when they are as close to full as possible in order to optimize your drive space.

Your iPod will not be available for use as an iPod once you make it an iStore. The formatting and partitioning systems will prohibit this. I have done a couple tests to try to maintain use as both, but haven’t successfully been able to isolate the iPod Control system from the HVX files system – I will update this as I try more.

The process is reversible – so if you want your iPod back just reinitialize and restore the system OS. This is easily done through the iTunes 7 interface.

Very Important!! When dumping, always make sure that the iStore and the camera have sufficient battery power – as a power failure amidst a transfer will cause you serious headaches and probably kiss your footage goodbye.

That’s about it – though I could be forgetting some tidbits due to exhaustion. Now everyone should send me a dollar or a copy of DV Rack HD so I can live while figure out how to modify an iPod video to play the MXF files that you transfer to it so you can preview your footage in the field… Oh we can dream can’t we?
 

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Sounds like a decent solution (one I heard proposed a while ago) but the downside is that you still have to use the camera for dumping. The nice thing about the P2 store is that you can keep shooting while dumping. I better solution would be a really small laptop with a PCMIA slot.
 
Definitely works. Been testing it for a couple of weeks looking for bugs before I shared it. Did some tests with iPod Linux and file browsing as well. Seems to work best this plain and simple way.
 
Sounds interesting, the ipod idea has been talked about when the camera first came out. My P2 store is awesome, as I can dump cards/footage while standing in the sand and not miss any shots while shooting surfing action, sound bytes or bikini shots.

Laptops, on the go drives, ipods are good but not for mobile run and gun shooting situations, where you can't stop shooting to download a card or open a laptop on the beach...

Plus I can still use my ipod to listen to my tunes, as my P2 store hangs on my schatler tripod with its portabrace case strap or in my backpack as I walk while the P2 store dowloads the card.

$1500 seems high, but boy it was worth every cent and I don't miss any shots. the old saying "you get what you pay for " is so true
 
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Yes people were doing this when camera first came out but cheers for posting the workflow :)
The big problem I have is I don't own a 4th generation IPOD and have little chance of getting one.
PS if anybodys got a 4th gen IPOD for sale let me know cheers.
 
Seems like a rather long winded way of doing what you can do with a usb2 otg. I use this:

http://www.vtec.co.uk/product/643_635.asp

Only one I could find available in the UK. It backs up 2 4 gigg cards from the camera with one touch and takes about realtime (8mins).

Admittedly this isn't as fast as firewire but it's only £100 and you don't have to mess with your ipod.

And if offload speed is a real pressing issue then invest in the p2 store - the best option because you don't need any connection to the camera at all...

Cheers


Jeff
 
Thanks for laying out the step-by-step workflow. The iPod's been talked about for quite a while; Kaku Ito tried it when he first got ahold of his HVX etc. I think the concerns were that the drive and battery were never meant to handle consecutive gigabytes of data transfer, but if it's working for you, then hey, it's working.

USB-OTG is a lot cheaper (battery-powered enclosure = $25, 60GB hard disk = $60 or so) but it's slower and I do like the feedback that you get from the firewire host mode (plus the ability to verify is nice). One thing about the USB-OTG method is that it only takes up the space it needs, not a full 4gb partition for each transfer, which is nice. And you can use any size drive in USB-OTG, so 120gb or 160gb is no problem, whereas with firewire we're forever limited to 60gb.

But it's slow; the firewire enclosures I've used have been twice as fast as USB-OTG.

The new Archos has a USB2 port (my archos can do host mode but it's usb 1 so it takes 55 minutes for a card!) but the new Archos can probably transfer in 4 minutes or so. You can get 100gb capacity, a full file system, plus music and video playback and such, plus you could even use it as a "ghetto" upside-down monitor for redrock micro uses if you needed to... if it's as fast as the ipod, I'd think that might be a better way to go than the ipod because you don't have to format it, you get the space efficiency, it continues to work as an Archos while also storing your files, etc.

Then there's things like the USB Hitch, which works as a host device and controls target devices like any USB drive, not just USB-OTG. Don't know how fast it is though, but that's another choice. Lots of choices out there nowadays!

I still vote for the cheap PC laptop whenever possible, I think that's the overall best solution when you can make room for it.
 
I can vouch for the PC laptop as a good solution, ive shot a drama on 2 4gig cards and a laptop before with no hinderance to pruduction.
I was woundering does anybody still make laptops with PCMCIA ports ?
I've been looking for a cheap laptop with PCMCIA for ages now but only can only find second hand sheds.
 
4mat said:
I was woundering does anybody still make laptops with PCMCIA ports ?
I've been looking for a cheap laptop with PCMCIA for ages now but only can only find second hand sheds.
Yes many manufacturers do. Gateway, Sony, Toshiba, Fujitsu, lots of 'em. You can find ones that have both slots too, expresscard and PCMCIA in the same unit.
 
Barry_Green said:
I still vote for the cheap PC laptop whenever possible, I think that's the overall best solution when you can make room for it.

I agree a laptop would be best, but often isn't an otpion. Been using this in the mountains hours away from the closest town in the middle of an off road race. No extra room in a backpack or desire to cary that much extra weight. Not to mention dust up a laptop! Hopefullly better and better options will show themselves.
 
i strongly suggest a little lappy for the storage solution as well. you can pick one up for as little as 400.00 with usb2.0, PCMCIA express, firewire, and a decent 60-80GB drive. the thing about using one like this is that it not only gives you the ability to store data, but it gives you the choice of USB or 1394, and also lets you keep copies of scripts, storyboards, blah blah.. + wireless internet access when in hotspots or on an aircard for communication and other things. it also lets you burn backups to DVD or other external drives on the spot, and everyting else that a laptop can do.. including direct recording using something like HDRack if you get a little better lappy for a little more $. all in all for a little 14" screen lappy you talking about adding apx another 4lbs to your package. that just doesnt bother me in the least, but i can see when there are times when you want the smallest lightest solution available that a USB-otg device would be nice.
 
4mat said:
I can vouch for the PC laptop as a good solution, ive shot a drama on 2 4gig cards and a laptop before with no hinderance to pruduction.
I was woundering does anybody still make laptops with PCMCIA ports ?
I've been looking for a cheap laptop with PCMCIA for ages now but only can only find second hand sheds.

MAC is phasing them out sadly (oh how I hate you apple), but most PC laptops still had them last time I checked. I'm still strapped for cash so on days when it looks like I'll shoot more than 20 minutes worth of footage I usually borrow a friend's laptop for offload. So far they've all had PCMIA slots.
 
Neil Rowe said:
i strongly suggest a little lappy for the storage solution as well. you can pick one up for as little as 400.00 with usb2.0, PCMCIA express, firewire, and a decent 60-80GB drive. the thing about using one like this is that it not only gives you the ability to store data, but it gives you the choice of USB or 1394, and also lets you keep copies of scripts, storyboards, blah blah.. + wireless internet access when in hotspots or on an aircard for communication and other things. it also lets you burn backups to DVD or other external drives on the spot, and everyting else that a laptop can do.. including direct recording using something like HDRack if you get a little better lappy for a little more $. all in all for a little 14" screen lappy you talking about adding apx another 4lbs to your package. that just doesnt bother me in the least, but i can see when there are times when you want the smallest lightest solution available that a USB-otg device would be nice.

The problem with this tough - is once you start putting all this stuff on a laptop - the internal 60 or 80 GB drive you mention no longer has 60 - 80 GB available for P2 files. I'm a Mac guy and I strongly agree with the versitlity of a laptop - but there is a slight downfall to having a multipurpose battery powered tool when you're out on location away from power. While you're burning all those DVDs, checking your script, powering those external drives and having a 14" LCD on you're draining your battery much faster - not to mention slowing your own movement down if you had to grab and go. It's kinda like the iPod Phone dilema. It's great to listen to music, play games and watch movies on your phone - but at the end of the day when you actually need to make a phone call your phone is dead.
 
There's definitely room for both. Just like there's definitely room for a P2 Store even in the face of a laptop's ability to do so many other things.
 
Nathan Beaman said:
The problem with this tough - is once you start putting all this stuff on a laptop - the internal 60 or 80 GB drive you mention no longer has 60 - 80 GB available for P2 files. I'm a Mac guy and I strongly agree with the versitlity of a laptop - but there is a slight downfall to having a multipurpose battery powered tool when you're out on location away from power. While you're burning all those DVDs, checking your script, powering those external drives and having a 14" LCD on you're draining your battery much faster - not to mention slowing your own movement down if you had to grab and go. It's kinda like the iPod Phone dilema. It's great to listen to music, play games and watch movies on your phone - but at the end of the day when you actually need to make a phone call your phone is dead.

I think a lot of it comes down to cost however. If I had a high budget and I was just shooting in harsh environments then I'd probably grab a P2 store. However, as it stands, the idea of shelling out $1500 for JUST OFFLOADING really isn't floating my boat. Aside from all the nifty featuers of a laptop,(burning DVDs, checking script, ect), they are not only gonna cost you less but also are going to be an otherwise solid investment. Right I can borrow a laptop from one of many friends for offloading. I think when the time comes for me to do a really big project which will have long shooting days I'll just shell out the cash and buy one but it's a lot easier to justify paying $800 for a laptop that can do all sorts of great things than paying $1500 for a P2 store that will be just for offloading.
 
Most of even the cheapest of Acer range have PCMCIA and express. £349 for cheap new one is possible.
 
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