HVX Post Requirements

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D_and_G

Well-known member
I'm trying to analyze the post requirements for the HVX.
Specifically the higher budget items.

For colour correction of DVCPRO HD footage : Will I need a new HD monitor ?, the NTSC won't be good enough?

Also what kind of processing power and memory (PC or Mac) will I need if I want to edit HD footage? Is uncompressed even feasible ?

Finally, I see on Apples website (new Studio) they are touting integration with the P2 format, are they partners with Panasonic and P2 workflow ? Does that mean better integration than Avid ?

Sorry about all the questions, but if I need to invest $ for a new workflow, I need lots of lead time. I'm beginning to think that the ancillary upgrades may match the price of the camera. Hope not. BTW my primary concern is for film out.
 
I just thought of something more about post workflow.

You won't need a tape deck (dsr 11 for example) with this will ya ?

You'll either input directly from the cam - no moving parts to worry about.
Or through a hard drive. Again , no tape no moving parts.
 
It won't stop there. Unless you have a blackmagic HD card that has an SDI HD out, you need to able to go thru the cam. Hope that works. And then you need a convertor to convert the analog HD signal to SDI.
Hmz, the convertor will probably set you back as much as an HD card from BlackMagic so never mind...
 
An NTSC monitor will not be good enough for color correction of HD footage. HD is an inherently digital format and suffers from none of the color bleed or other artifacts that NTSC puts up with.

So you'll want an HD monitor. Adam Wilt and others are praising the Dell 2405FPW, not specifically because it's a great monitor, but because it's astoundingly affordable for a 1920x1080, DVI & component video display.

What type of monitor to get is a far more open question with HD. With NTSC, we always said "you need a CRT, LCDs aren't good enough." But with HD, CRT is probably the least prevalent monitor style! Even though it provides arguably the best picture, CRT is the least popular because of the massive size. So LCD, plasma, DLP, D-ILA... you've got to make your choice somewhere. And in that realm, the Dell starts looking awfully appealing. Plus it's a regular computer monitor as well, and a massive one.

For decks, you need no deck at all. You can edit the cards directly from a PCMCIA reader, or from the camera itself, or you can have the camera dub the cards onto any firewire or USB2 hard disk and edit from there. So decks are not an issue.

For processing power -- check the recommended specs from the editor you intend to use. FCP-HD and Avid Express HD and Canopus Edius all support it, so look to them for the minimum specs you will need to meet.

As far as whether Apple provides better integration than Avid, keep in mind that Avid is also a P2 partner and should offer every bit as much integration as Apple does.
 
Thanks Barry, that just about clinches the Dell monitor for me. My current second monitor is on it's last legs, and will die any time now.
 
Barry_Green said:
For decks, you need no deck at all. You can edit the cards directly from a PCMCIA reader, or from the camera itself, or you can have the camera dub the cards onto any firewire or USB2 hard disk and edit from there. So decks are not an issue.
Click to expand...

The deck is not an issue until that client you sold on HD says "Great! I love it, now where's my HD copy?"
Hopefully we'll (and our clients) all have Blue-Ray or HDDVD recorders by the time the camera is released.
Don't forget about that added expense in your workflow....
 
Burn it to hard disk. Burn it to dual-layer DVD. How long is the program you're talking about?

I think very, very few of us are likely to have a DVCPRO-HD deck as part of our regular workflow. And I think very few clients are going to have the deck that they could play it back on.

External hard disks are going to be the delivery medium. Cheaper than a tape, and you don't need a deck to make it, and the client doesn't need a deck to access the material.
 
Sirius_Doggy said:
The deck is not an issue until that client you sold on HD says "Great! I love it, now where's my HD copy?"
Hopefully we'll (and our clients) all have Blue-Ray or HDDVD recorders by the time the camera is released.
Don't forget about that added expense in your workflow....
Click to expand...

Do you have any idea how many people already ask this question with current HD solutions?
Sure, stuff is archived on a DVCProHD tape, but what client of yours or
mine actually has any conceivable need for an HD home copy today? Every project I've
been a part of with DVCProHD (3) was only ever released on standard def. DVD and noone
thought anything of it. The HD has a certain aesthetic to it (color sampling, framerates)
that MiniDV doesn't. So, you've got to look at available camera and release options and
determine what system gives me the nicest looking picture? It it Super8mm film, is it
MiniDV, HDV, HVX200? I don't have the answer to that question, necessarily. But,
considering HD distribution has NEVER been an option for anyone and still isn't, I would
think it best to have a camera that captures great images, resolution independant, and
probably that more than any other reason is why I see very little point in HDV. The
cameras do not offer anything that I couldn't already do better with a MiniDV camera,
besides resolution, which is the one thing I cannot utilize right now. So--it makes sense
to go with a camera that has features that help make better pictures today and maybe
an upgrade would be in line if you prefer the IT-style workflow that P2 offers... The new
camera is valuable not only because it's HD, it has specs that would indicate it will have
more features and better quality than currently available handheld sized SD cameras.

brian wells
 
The prooblem with LCD viewing is not HDTV but SD. If all your doing is HD you're fine because those monitors are native 1080. But when you start doing 480 the image looks like $#%@! Because the monitor has to up-rez to display and that only looks good on the best of devices like an up-rez dvd player. CRTs on the other hand can truly switch resolutions. They can look amazing with both SD and HDTV signals. Blus with true blacks they are best for critical corrections. That being said I probabbly will get the new 17" production LCD from Pany as a field monitor for the HVX. However I'll get something like this...
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=337516&is=REG
For editing and correction, along wiith the Blackmagic HD Plus.
The other important consideration is storage...
 
Barry_Green said:
Burn it to hard disk. Burn it to dual-layer DVD. How long is the program you're talking about?
Click to expand...
For storage or transfer that may work but my client is not going to be able to throw that DVD in his current DVD player and play it back in HD.
Barry_Green said:
I think very, very few of us are likely to have a DVCPRO-HD deck as part of our regular workflow. And I think very few clients are going to have the deck that they could play it back on.
Click to expand...
Agreed, just trying to figure out the whole HD workflow when "a" project is complete and the client ask for their HD "copy" so they can watch it on their new HD projection TV at home.
 
Sirius_Doggy said:
For storage or transfer that may work but my client is not going to be able to throw that DVD in his current DVD player and play it back in HD.
Click to expand...

Why not? They should at the very least have a DVD player in their system if they're requesting HD tapes. It would only be data, and i they don't have the capacity to view it I'd be suspect at how they would view an HD tape.
 
braw said:
Why not? They should at the very least have a DVD player in their system if they're requesting HD tapes. It would only be data, and i they don't have the capacity to view it I'd be suspect at how they would view an HD tape.
Click to expand...
I'm talking about current Standard definition set top DVD players that have a maximum output of 480P. You can't record a HD signal onto a standard blank 4.7gig DVD and that will playback on this player in HD.
IT WILL NOT DO IT.
If the file size/length is small enough you can record it to this disc for storage and transfer purposes as a data file though. Maybe playback on a computer if converted to HD-WMV.
You'll need a set top Blue-ray or HDDVD player to playback a HD movie.
And that means you'll need a Blue-Ray or HDDVD recorder on your computer... Which one? Both? Who knows at this point. It's kind of like the old Beta/VHS war getting ready to happen all over again.....
 
Sirius_Doggy said:
Agreed, just trying to figure out the whole HD workflow when "a" project is complete and the client ask for their HD "copy" so they can watch it on their new HD projection TV at home.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but that problem has always been with us. There is *no* viable HD delivery medium yet!

Eventually there will be HD-DVD or blu-ray as an option. But other than that, there is no way to get it from here to there. You can give them a WMV-HD DVD that they could play in their computer, but...

I mean, seriously -- what HD playback device do they have on their HDTV? None. So how would you expect to deliver it to them in HD?

Right now the only way you could even hope to deliver it affordably would probably be through a D-VHS deck, and who has one of those?
 
Barry_Green said:
Yeah, but that problem has always been with us. There is *no* viable HD delivery medium yet!
Click to expand...

I guess that's my point... I'm not trying to piss anyone off or anything.
It's just that lately we've all been talking about "HDV vs HDVCPro" and " P2 capacity issues"
I'm just playing devils advocate on all of the issues and the one thing it seems hardly anyone is talking about is the HD distribution issue.

Whatever the HD format people go with, distribution to the masses is an issue.

Now if you are an indie film maker and you have to submit a Digibeta or 35mm print for viewing at film festivals - no problem, take your completed project on a harddrive to a post house and have your print/Digibeta copy made.

If you are like me and you produce short training or marketing videos that your clients want to distibute to their mailing list..... then HD is not a consideration at the moment because as you say "There is *no* viable HD delivery medium yet!"
Once the BlueRay / HD-DVD format war is over and every household is going out replacing their settop DVD players with this new HD version, I'm gonna be all over it.
And by then I'm sure 128Gig P2 cards will cost $50!:grin:
 
Exactly. It'll be about 2010 before over 50% of US households have any sort of HD player.

I think we're likely to see HD delivered over the internet before we see players in people's homes. And by 2010, yes the 128gb card will probably cost around $200-$400, going by Panasonic's roadmap, and the current trend of a card costing about as much as the previous card cost when it was announced.
 
I constantly talk about the lack of a HD home release format.... always followed by two benefits
the HVX200 offers over every single other MiniDV camera:
4:2:2 color sampling and variable framerates.

Perhaps for training videos, variable framerates wouldn't be on the top of anyone's list, but HD resolution color sampling with more than ten times the information than a MiniDV camera is
definitely a significant improvement and worthwhile. The entire issue of no HD release system
makes me wonder what is the point of HDV? At least with the HVX200 offers a competitive
advantage to me now that is basically a fringe benefit of the fact that it's an "HD" camera.

brian wells
 
D_and_G said:
I just thought of something more about post workflow.

You won't need a tape deck (dsr 11 for example) with this will ya ?

You'll either input directly from the cam - no moving parts to worry about.
Or through a hard drive. Again , no tape no moving parts.
Click to expand...

Your points are good but how do you plan to log your footage? Puting extra hours on the camera? And what about transcribing interviews? I know panasonic is making a deck for the P2 cards (wasn't it like 4-7 grand?) and P2 drives for pc's, but does that mean I will be able to log it in Avid Express Pro or Final Cut? Do you need the deck?
 
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