HVX first impressions..

N

Neil Rowe

Rowe Cine LLC
ok so ive had the new cam for a week or so now. .. ive toyed around and found it quite easy to navigate through everything to get the results i want. the menu system is a little confusing at first just because there are so many selections and settings to choose from though. anyhow.. heres some numbered things i have to say about the cam.

#1: ( this is only #1 cause its bothering me so much with all the chatter.)
noise: whatever.. its no more noisy than the DVX. if you want to shoot in the dark ...use nightvision. ..if you want to shoot a film.. even if its a dark scene.. do it the right way.. shoot it brighter and darken in post. but again.. its no more noisy than the DVX. Ive found that on my production model the cine gamma and matrix settings with normal or even slightly increased detail arent really any noisier than the normal settings in any conditions i would consider acceptable to shoot in. in darker conditions, the cine matrix can give a little chroma noise exactly like the DVX. basically .. imho if your having noise issues, its your fault and not the cameras. after all it is a LIGHT recording device.. you need to give it something real to work with.


#2: resolution: wow!.. and i mean wow!.. this thing is definitely high def. I can see every little piece of texture on a seemingly smooth surface.. just amazing. im definitely not going to worry about the resolution being good enough for film blowup. cause it is.. period. even the SD DVX did a decent job, but this is just cake.


#3: P2 shooting: ...i never want to see a tape again.. ever.. enough said.
ive found that using the HVX in the USB 2.0 mode is easier than the firewire mode for computer connection since its faster and plug and play responsive.


#4: increased zoom range: i really like this.. the little bit of extra shallow DOF on the long end of the lense is nice.


#5: 1080p vs 720p: the 720p image seems to be smoother in image tonality, but the 1080p definitely yeilds more resolution. either way thery are both very lovely high def images.

...anyway im going to do some shoting right now and then come back and post some images in a couple hours or so.. nothing fancy. just some basic stuff, and ill try to get some more sample stuff shot tommorow.
 
OK, I was going to start a new thead asking for feedback now that there are some cameras out there in the real world, but you give a good start. Some things I would like feedback on are:

A. How does the camera "feel"? Is it a solid piece of equipment? That is, do you think it's going to hold up in the field? In run and gun?

B. How does it "feel", part deux. Is it a stable platform? When handheld is it balanced nicely? Handheld, do you use it with the LCD or VF? (I know this is pretty subjective)


C. Does the LCD do justice to the picture you end up with? And is it really as hard to get a good HD focus without a monitor as some have said?

D. Assume you are doing a SD project. Is the quality of the final image better if you record in HD and downconvert it to the onboard MiniDV or would it be the same to just record on the Mini DV to start? How about shoot and edit in HD and output in SD?

E. What kind of record time are you getting with the standard battery the comes with the unit?
 
Easy. Easy... Give him some room. Posting footage is cool enough. Phil needs his HVX fix for sure.

Also good to see another Rowe on the forum. Justyn Rowe here from Nottingham, UK now in Florida.


I like your wheels and dolly kit, I think I'll be picking one up.

Congrats on the camera. I'll have one in my hands on Monday for sure.
 
philarno said:
D. Assume you are doing a SD project. Is the quality of the final image better if you record in HD and downconvert it to the onboard MiniDV or would it be the same to just record on the Mini DV to start? How about shoot and edit in HD and output in SD?
Click to expand...

Maybe you already know this and want others' opinions, but Barry has covered this quite extensively--they are quite interesting threads.
 
A. How does the camera "feel"? Is it a solid piece of equipment? That is, do you think it's going to hold up in the field? In run and gun?

....feels a little more solid than the DVX. heavier and beefier. if youve had experience with a dvx in the field.. this is similar.. but does feel more solid. probably just due to the weight.

B. How does it "feel", part deux. Is it a stable platform? When handheld is it balanced nicely? Handheld, do you use it with the LCD or VF? (I know this is pretty subjective)

...yeah its balanced nice. i have some torn ligements in my arm right now, but its not too much of a struggle to hold it up nicely.


C. Does the LCD do justice to the picture you end up with? And is it really as hard to get a good HD focus without a monitor as some have said?

the lcd does do justice. by using the peaking feature it helps, but what helps the most is the focus assist which allows you to see the center area at apx full res. very very nice. i wouldnt say youll need a field monitor for focus at all.

D. Assume you are doing a SD project. Is the quality of the final image better if you record in HD and downconvert it to the onboard MiniDV or would it be the same to just record on the Mini DV to start? How about shoot and edit in HD and output in SD?

...if i were shooting an SD project id shoot DVCPRO 50 so i wouldnt be messing with tape at all.. why shoot in DV when you can shoot DVCPRO 50 for a better image? perhaps id shoot at 720p though and then output at SD in DVCPRO 50 because then id have an HD master. i mean .. why not? its not like it costs more if youve got the drive space anyway. but anyway i dont plan on shooting or editing in DV or DVCPRO for any pro shoots ever again unless i have to.

E. What kind of record time are you getting with the standard battery the comes with the unit?[/quote]

...hmmm, not sure about this one. i havent fully charged and discharged the battery yet. my shooting was sporatic for the last week, but i can say it was at least a few hours off the battery charge from shipping. ill have to hold any input on that untill i really see how long i can run it when i know its fully charged.


anyhow hope these answers help. :)


I wont have any footage untill tommorow. but ill throw some stills up tonight.
 
K,

here are some full res stills from some testing i was doing tonight. the cam definitely has more dynamic range than the DVX i can shoot scenes with everything but the bulb or glass very close to it in the fixtures blowing out. and still keep the levels up in the rest of the room without blasting the room with light. its definitely something to note that i used the raylight demo for the footage from which these stills came. the codec is good, but not completely up to naitive quality yet. even as yet . im very impressed with the cams results. after shooting on the dvx for years.. this is just what i wanted all along. a high res DVX

files are about 8 mb a piece. in full res tiff from raylight demo codec

http://www.rowecine.com/HVX/

video is low bitrate now so i dont exceed bandwith again. sorry. :) full res version is here:

http://hvx200.moctel.com/Users/Neil_Rowe/

thanks to user mochouinard for hostng the high bitrate version
 
Neil Rowe said:
the 720p image seems to be smoother in image tonality, but the 1080p definitely yeilds more resolution.
Click to expand...

Neil, could you elaborate more in detail on what you mean about image tonality in 1080p? Are there any adjustments that you can conceive of that could fix this in cam or in post?
 
steindj said:
Neil, could you elaborate more in detail on what you mean about image tonality in 1080p? Are there any adjustments that you can conceive of that could fix this in cam or in post?
Click to expand...

sure,

basiclly images in 720p appear smoother and have no chroma/luma blocking whatsoever. .. images in 1080p appear to have slight chroma/luma blocking on diagonal edges. this could be entirely due to using raylight. i really have no idea at this time. im sure barry green does, but anyway its just dust in the wind to comment on it right now because im not editing it naitively, and the images are still stunning(check the pics in the post above.. they are all 1080p.. the minute chroma/luma blocking on contrasting edges isnt always there, and its not something id be too worried about when it is there). from the results ive gotten so far im still siding with shooting a film for blowup in 1080p. ...but again.. dust.. dust.. and more dust, untill its really been dug into. using a differnt editing codec can make all the difference in the world.


horsie's foot was broken off on accident when some of my daughters freinds were over.. the little horse has a busted fot too. have to fix them tommorow. ahh .. i love the smell of epoxy in the morning..
 
what's the difference between 3 and 4?(besides the fact that one looks more colorful--or is that it? And how?)
 
Thanks very much for the feedback. And thanks for the stills. Very nice.

Up until now most of what I've read is kind of like "let's analyze" this camera from specs, demos at shows or at dealers, and the 4 camera comparison. Res charts, studio models, etc. I'm not saying that doesn't matter or wasn't helpful. I digested every word of Barry's account. (twice)

What I think we need now is a few thoughts about how this camera does in the real world, on location with tough lighting etc. compared to expectations. There should be plenty of these stories available soon with all the deliveries.

OK OK I admit it. I'm one of the poor masses sitting back here "anticipating" my delivery. So I'm an addict! Have a heart. Throw me and my fellow anticipators something to chew on.

Any other guys out there who have some results?
 
The blockiness is from the scaling from 1280x1080 DVCPROHD that is recorded by the camera to the software output that is 1920x1080. I scaled back to 1280x1080 and there is no blockiness. The original 1280x1080 format output should be fine. DVCPROHD to 1920x1080 is 150% scaling on one axis which is definetely a lot.1280x1080 (DVCPROHD 1080p) scaled to 1280x720 should be the best solution since it requires no horizontal scaling and the real vertical resolution is not more than 720lines anyway. It will also be a lot better than recording 720p due to downsampling and more luma and chroma lines on both directions.

 
...the format does scale but i think theres more to it than that yet. but again, i cant really comment because im not editing it naitive, and havent tried another codec. however dvfilm does specify that the raylight codec im using is only preview quality and shouldnt be used for broadcast output, im pulling these still off the timeline using the raylight codec, so theres a number of variables left to explore which i cant really speak to at such a small window to glance through right now.

the more colorful picture of the horse's head is just different settings. in this case its a slight color correction to adjust black levels and reach true black in the image. a simple master ped adjustment would achieve the same look in cam though.
 
Don't worry about the blockiness. I believe it's going to be fixed in the next issue of Raylight. The camera itself won't exhibit any of that blockiness, nor will it on a properly-scaled frame in post.
 
Neil, Thanks for the review.

I seem to remember you use PPRo (i think)

If so, how is the editing experience with Raylight and PPro? And which version of PPro are you on now?
 
im still on 1.5 for PPRO im half waiting to upgrade to 2.0 pro bundle untill i see what sort of support for P2/mxf and DVCPRO HD will be around the bend for PPRO. alothough ill get the bundle either way cause i use all the other programs anyway. raylight works pretty well but its choppy at full res. granted the machine im running it on isnt really an HD speed machine. the medium quality setting works pretty well for previews though. also cineform has announced that they will support the HVX through aspect HD. which hopefully means no need to buy prospect HD for alot more. also hopefully they work with MXF and do a direct file conversion instead of having to convert during live ingest. if thats the case then between raylights updates and a new aspect HD for DVCPRO HD in PPRO ill lkely be very hapy to stay with the program since i like PPRO alot and its so tightly integrated with the rest of the adobes progs.. 2.0 is pretty much an editing version of AE. ..good stuffs


Barry, thanks for the tip on the edge blocking. I felt pretty strongly that it wasnt from the camera, because even if you scale a regular frame you wouldnt get the blockiness, youd only have softer edges. and i could scrub the timeline and get varied quality on the same exact frame without changing anything.. sometimes slightly edge blocked sometimes smoother, pending who knows what.. so i figured it was the raylight codec doing something quirky. I also have to give props to Barry for another thing, but ill mention it later when it makes more sense.

anyhow, sorry no footage today.. got back home later than expected and ingested 2 hours of family video from our little consumer cam for my wife. so ill get to posting the first sample footage tommorow.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top