alexdias
Well-known member
No pixel shifting if full raster.
I'm another one excited with most features ($ included) of the HPX300 but the CMOS just doesn't cut for me, my experiences so far have been bad. Pity!
hpx500 or ex3
- Thread starter deebee69
- Start date
No pixel shifting if full raster.
I'm another one excited with most features ($ included) of the HPX300 but the CMOS just doesn't cut for me, my experiences so far have been bad. Pity!
The Sony EX3 is compared to the HPX500 better in most respect.
Th only pre's for the HPX500 are: 2/3" Sensor, full shoulder camera and the panasonic HDCodec(*)
The pre's for the sony are: Inexpensive media (I can record for 50 minutes on a 16gb inexpensive SD memory card(60us$ versus 900us$)), very good stock lens included, charger, battery and 2x 8GB Media included, Much better VF, full HD picture(sharper than HPX500) and of course much cheaper in price. Minor issue roling shutter.
(*)What I did was creating an extra time-line in Premiere Pro CS4 with Panasonic specs and draw the footage from the Sony time line to the Pana-time line. The converted result after rendering was just as good as the Pana-footage.
So I come to just 1 conclusion: For me the EX3 is the camera to go.
Th only pre's for the HPX500 are: 2/3" Sensor, full shoulder camera and the panasonic HDCodec(*)
The pre's for the sony are: Inexpensive media (I can record for 50 minutes on a 16gb inexpensive SD memory card(60us$ versus 900us$)), very good stock lens included, charger, battery and 2x 8GB Media included, Much better VF, full HD picture(sharper than HPX500) and of course much cheaper in price. Minor issue roling shutter.
(*)What I did was creating an extra time-line in Premiere Pro CS4 with Panasonic specs and draw the footage from the Sony time line to the Pana-time line. The converted result after rendering was just as good as the Pana-footage.
So I come to just 1 conclusion: For me the EX3 is the camera to go.
I can think of a few more for you.
- True professional shoulder mount.
- Greater dynamic range.
- ccds
- 4 channel professional audio recording.
- Panasonic gamma curves.
- Professional HD ENG and prime lens options.
- mechanical ND filters
- rugged 2/3" cam body.
Thats just off the top of my head.
Ciao.
lawriejaffa
Veteran
Er the EX3 compared to the hpx500 - ones a prosumer cam, the other a fully fitted professional camera. It would be like comparing a Scarlet with a Sony 2/3 hd cam.
This very consumer like attitude of chasing pixels at the cost of everything else is getting ridiculous. If you want the most res then thats what you want - but to say one camera is the best overall just for one's own quite specific preferences is just silly.
This very consumer like attitude of chasing pixels at the cost of everything else is getting ridiculous. If you want the most res then thats what you want - but to say one camera is the best overall just for one's own quite specific preferences is just silly.
Give me a break.
Greater dynamic range is not true
Panasonic gamma curves - what is that? Do you want to take a look in the EX3 menu for setting picture profile?
Professional HD ENG and prime lens options - Yeah, if you are a news gatherer, but you probably won't ever change your lens. EX3 is not an ENG-cam, that's for sure.
I allways wonder why Pana is staying with the P2. Is it just like Sony to get more money out of your pocket or is it that practical?
Sony got badluck with the SxS when someone discover that you can just as well use cheap SD-memory to do the same job.
There are solidstate harddisk out there of 250 Gb for less than 1000us$.
Make an P2-adapter to use this babies with the HPX500. The same goes for the HPX300. In the future implement the harddrive to the cam and make it removable just like the P2-card. Or sell the cards for less than 200 bucks.
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
Greater dynamic range with the 500 IS true, I've tested them side by side.
"News-gatherers" aren't the only ones who appreciate a well balanced shoulder-mount camera. I shot a music video for 2 days straight all hand-held with my HPX.
It would have been impossible with a smaller camera.
Feel free to R&D a P2-adapter that has the performance of a P2 card at a cheaper price point, I'll wait with baited breath.
Those who charge for their work factor in the cost and pass it on to their clients.
This argument has been done, and done, and done and is getting really old.
"News-gatherers" aren't the only ones who appreciate a well balanced shoulder-mount camera. I shot a music video for 2 days straight all hand-held with my HPX.
It would have been impossible with a smaller camera.
Feel free to R&D a P2-adapter that has the performance of a P2 card at a cheaper price point, I'll wait with baited breath.
Those who charge for their work factor in the cost and pass it on to their clients.
This argument has been done, and done, and done and is getting really old.
What I was stating there is this - it has HD ENG lens options AND Prime lens options (for other forms of shooting where a prime would be needed - narrative/music video/tvcm etc.
And you said "You probably wont ever change your lens" in reply to my post so I assume you are referring to me? Well you would be totally incorrect then. I rent primes regularly for different jobs.
I was referring to the "ENG" use of the camera. Normally news gatherers don't change lenses imo, but I might be wrong.
ENG people would most likely never change the lens. Agreed.
But when you say you were referring to ENG use only, thats contradictory to your statement.
"Professional HD ENG and prime lens options" (your statement)
- Yeah, if you are a news gatherer, but you probably won't ever change your lens. EX3 is not an ENG-cam, that's for sure.(my statement)
"Professional HD ENG and prime lens options - Yeah, if you are a news gatherer, you probably won't ever change your lens. EX3 is not an ENG-cam, that's for sure."
Is this clearer? Y'r rght w't do't agn.
alpi69
Veteran
uh oh. Pro of the HPX500 is 2/3" sensor. And that´s it? That statement alone offers quite a few pros in one word.
2/3" = MUCH better DOF control. And I mean a full class above the 1/2" EXs. And 2 or more above the 1/3" cams.
2/3" = better sensitivity. The EX-1 Sonys are good in low-light, but not beating the HPX500. They might be a tad cleaner, but they still lack punch in the "darkness" compared
2/3" = better latitude. And if you say the EX-3 is equal that IMO is not true, but I have no prove either.
2/3" = better color rendition. I have yet to see a setting on EX-1/3 that is true in all colors. Either the red is orange or the red is true and then some blues or greens are inaccurate. The image is good, but when intercut with other cams the EXs are always endangered to stick out.
I don´t know the physics, but IMO you can spot a cam with a smaller chip. The DOF, the colors. Of course the HVX sticks out even more with 1/3".
One big pro of the EX-3/1 is the SD card recording (at least up to 40fps about). I´ll give you that, but it pretty much ends there.
Sharper image? Well when you shoot "still-lives", lock the cam-wow what a sharp image (although to me too sharp, but that´s me). But as soon as the frame is in motion and the codec comes into play it is softening down considerably.
I shot several clips with the EXs and they are good cams. Especially the EX-1. I even considered an EX-3 (to be able to use "real lenses"). But when I picked up a HPX500 (didn´t buy it yet, only rented) I instantly knew I would not be satisfied with less. We had one architectural shoot and the house was supersharp....until we panned (very slowly) ....the rez was dropping due to the codec. And that was slow panning.
The EXs are great cams and do some stuff really really well. But they are simply not in a league with the 500. Pricewise and Chipwise. And I don´t even touch the CMOS problems here. And they are there. There are situations where I would be wary to bring a CMOS cam.
That doesn´t mean you can´t make great movies with them. Heck, films from the Canon XL1 made it to the big screen.
my 2 cents
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The HPX500 was my camera by choice so
I can go all the way with you except for this:
Viewfinder sucks
Resolution is so so
P2 is a rip-off - they could have easely implemented removable HD
Power supply is expensive and you need to buy it with charger
Lens is expensive.
For 1 working HPX500 I can buy two Sony EX3 plus 1 EX1.
(4 P2 16Gb, 2 batteries with charger and 10.000 us$ lens)
You can see it again with the HPX300. Looks nice, you get a lot, but still you have to add a lot to the price because of the powersupply with charger and the idiotic P2 concept wich only serve the seller and of course Jan will say a different story like reliability and speed(???????).
By the way, the picture of the EX3 is blurred during camera movement only if you activate detail in the menu.
Jan_Crittenden
Veteran
Then there would be no 5 year warranty and anytime you started to move quickly with the camera the writing to the disk drives becomes challenging or anytime there are deep harmonics like during a rock concert up near the speakers, this can cause issues in writing to the hdd. If you only use the P2s once, yes they are expensive, but if you use them 1000 times vastly cheaper.
Welcome to the world of 2/3" lenses
And you get Long GOP 4:2:0. Seems like quite a trade to me.
Code:
You can see it again with the HPX300. Looks nice, you get a lot, but still you have to add a lot to the price because of the powersupply with charger and the idiotic P2 concept wich only serve the seller and of course Jan will say a different story like reliability and speed(???????).First I don't see how P2 serves the seller, since they do not need reliability or speed. Actually I would add that since there are now over 100,000 P2 units out there, not everyone shares your opinion. Of course you could also call the engineering groups at NBC, ABC, Fox, and Discovery but frankly I wouldn't because they are some pretty smart people and they do not see that P2 is idiotic as you say.
Best,
Jan
Paul Kramm.net
Active member
I'm trying.....i'm really...really trying to go with the HPX500.
I'm coming from 2/3 chip land (Sony DSR570)
Put what i'm hearing about the shoddy and cheap VF.
and the Overly priced P2 cards.....
Come on.....the price of storage has come way down....
just telling you like it is.....Paul
btw....I never had to up-grade any VF from Sony. They made it with the right VF and build it into the cost of the camera.
I'm coming from 2/3 chip land (Sony DSR570)
Put what i'm hearing about the shoddy and cheap VF.
and the Overly priced P2 cards.....
Come on.....the price of storage has come way down....
just telling you like it is.....Paul
btw....I never had to up-grade any VF from Sony. They made it with the right VF and build it into the cost of the camera.
Barry_Green
Moderator
The 500 uses (I believe) the same viewfinder that Sony uses on its XDCAM 330 and 350. And both of them build it into the cost of the camera and include it as a package deal.
Jan_Crittenden
Veteran
This is a Standard Def Camera, and it the HPX500s DVCPRO50 mode it will outshine the Camera you have been using and the VF will be fine. When you go to HD, you will need to use the built in tools. Contrasting the alternatives to this camera, well let's just say they aren't so flexible.
I think that is overstated, it is well built but it is SD, just like all of the Sony cameras in the XDCAM line and if you want an HD VF, I believe the only one that can be upgraded is the 700. Why don't you go look at it, see if you can work with it? See if you can work with the alternative camera's VF any better.
Price of some types of memory has come down, but not the memory in the P2 cards. These are not money makers for us, we pass them along with as lean a margin as is possible.
As am I.
But you never bought an HD camera from Sony. If you had purchased an SD camera from Panasonic you wouldn't have had to upgrade there either.
Best,
Jan
Paul Kramm.net
Active member
well said.
I'll make my way to B&H Photo and check out the HPX500 & HPX300.
as soon as the 300 becomes available.
Thanks, Paul
I'll make my way to B&H Photo and check out the HPX500 & HPX300.
as soon as the 300 becomes available.
Thanks, Paul
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Jan, there are solidstate harddrives out there and perhaps they don't use gold for a memory chip, but they do the same job cheaper and just as fast and reliable. A 250Gb Solidstate HD is available for wel under 1000US$.
Don't get me wrong: The camera is great but..............
alpi69
Veteran
Well, the viewfinder is better than people say. Sure there are super viewfinders available and I have used them on HDCam camcorders. BUT we rented them extra. I used a 700 XDCamHD last week and it had a € 3.000 viewfinder and it was not the most expensive one. I found it pretty much like the HPX 500 one. You get what you pay for.
In this clip you can easily spot the HPX500 footage (compared to the HVX200s) and it was dark and all, but I pretty much had the focus correct all night (shooting 720pN): http://vimeo.com/3082241
The price of P2 still is a problem and yes it is better than tape, but it is way behind SDHC and even XDCam. Sorry Jan, but the orginal investment hurts. It may pay after a while, but 1.000 for a solidstatecard is crazy nowadays and I am certain it holds back sales from Panasonic in the sub 20.000 market. Networks see it against the recent tapecosts, but the sub-20.000 market compares it to € 4 per hour DV-tapes.
In this clip you can easily spot the HPX500 footage (compared to the HVX200s) and it was dark and all, but I pretty much had the focus correct all night (shooting 720pN): http://vimeo.com/3082241
The price of P2 still is a problem and yes it is better than tape, but it is way behind SDHC and even XDCam. Sorry Jan, but the orginal investment hurts. It may pay after a while, but 1.000 for a solidstatecard is crazy nowadays and I am certain it holds back sales from Panasonic in the sub 20.000 market. Networks see it against the recent tapecosts, but the sub-20.000 market compares it to € 4 per hour DV-tapes.
Jan_Crittenden
Veteran
But I cannot make a standard that has gauranteed interchangability on a HDD that wasn't around in 2004.
Hey I know that P2 has an entry cost and it is high. But it has a long run cost that is much cheaper than anything else that is media based because it will still be willing to record long after any of the other flash memory offerings. Tape and disc are the most expensive recording materials out there, especialy if that is the archive.
Keep in mind the P2 is able to record any of the formats that are in the camera on the same card and if we make another codec, it too will be able to record it. If you look at it from the Panasonic view, you don't have to buy new recording media to change codecs, it just works. Analyze this for a second. Find another maintream solid state camera that can record DV, DVCPRO, DVCPRO50, DVCPRO HD and AVC-Intra. Now I know the 500 doesn't record AVC-I but my point is on the P2 card, it is format agnostic, and to take it a step fruther, I could have a clip form all of those, then fip the frequecy to 50Hz and record them all again and all of them could reside on the same card. There is not another recording media that is that flexible.
Anyhow I know every one doesn't like the price of the P2, but it is a standard that works across the product line and we have been able to capitalize on it because we don't have to reinvent the recording area of the cameras, we can spend our resources on making other cool cameras and devices like the P2 Gear, the P2 Portable, the AJ-HPX3700, and the HPX500. Five years ago you wouldn't have been able to get a camera that does what the 500 does for under $60,000. But because we made a standard to work with we could bring the price of entry into professional HD less. All because of P2.
Best,
Jan