HPX300 wth AVCINTRA announced

This looks like a great camera, Panasonic is going to keep JVC at bay with their HD100, but I have a little reservation about the 1/3" chips. It's easy to get spoiled with 1/2" sensors like those found in the XDCAM EX cameras, but I'm glad Panny is putting out a Full HD, interchangeable HD camera.

Things are getting very interesting!

David
 
joe 1008 said:
1. Lightloss is a big issue with 35mm adapters. Does the 300 come close to the 500 in sensitivity?
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The 500 is over 1/2 stop more sensitive; the 300 clocks in at about 500 ISO, the 500 at 800 ISO.

2. I suppose the letus 2/3" rely lens will fit on this camera. But there should be a HUGE crop factor. Would a Letus Ultimate be clean enough to compensate for that unvoluntary "zooming in"?
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Can't say until someone tests it...
 
Mac said:
Sorry, I forgot to add something - It appears that they have cut the forward body portion of the new camera lower than the 500 (similar to the old Sony DSR200), which shows that someone is actually paying attention to the needs of people like me..

With a lower body profile, you can actually see OVER the camera to your right while shooting... This is a big deal in a shoulder mount camera - if you don't believe me, try shooting in a rioting crowd when you are completely blind to one side....
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Actually Jan brought that up as a specific design feature they set out to implement. P2 is huge in football, with a dozen NFL teams and several dozen major colleges using it for instant replay/coaching review footage, and Jan said that shooters love the ability to see over the side of the camera when there's 300-lb linebackers that might be rushing at you...
 
How does this compare to this JVC cam, for Filmmaking?

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/features.jsp?model_id=MDL101851&feature_id=01

One thing I'm not sure, but I assume is correct, is that they allow the XDCAM EX codec to be recorded on the 2x SDHC ports in this cam. Sounds interesting! Its not AVCINtra, but its CCD, and if they are using pixel shift, it should be, still, better theoretically than Panasonics Pixel Shift, due to JVC 1/3 CCD technology being 1280x720 native- it should be something like the HPX2000, in other words, but with 1/3 CCD's. At least, theoretically, in resolution terms.

For someone that never used both new cams- HPX300 and JVC700- I would assume this:

JVC's Pros:

Cheaper (8200 list= 7k ish retail)

Lighter and smaller- seems to follow the HD100/200 design

SDHC recording- Cheap media for 35mb XDCAM EX codec- solid codec, but 4:2:0

CCD's- No Rolling Shutter issues.

JVC's Cons:

Should be the same HD100/200 Technology- mirror effect is still in our memory

Costumer support- Many horror stories over here about JVC gear concerning reliability- excluding their CRT's and LCD's which are very good.

Panasonic HPX300 Pros:

Avc Intra- The best non-raw codec for Broadcast and production in existence. Better than it, should be only the Sony HDCAM-SR codec-but that's way, way beyond affordable.

P2 Workflow- its cemented, and its a pro for me since I have invested a lot in this...

Panasonic Cinegamma- Other cameras can come close to achieve it in tweaking and/or in Post-production, but its really a unique and fantastic emulation of film and a great plus for Panasonic. Its patented for a reason.

"real" Shoulder Mount look- Good for the client that requires both form and substance :).

Panasonic Costumer support- Good, reliable, and effective. Excelent track record in manufacturing, so its a big plus in terms of costumer confidence.

Panasonic Cons:

3mos- Skew- Barry found it, and that's troubling. While this could be an even field in Cmos land, vs the JVC, seems like everyone is losing.

P2- Prices are still way high. In a global economical crisis, it needs at least a 30% cut in price for new HPX300/ HPX170 users to find this attractive vs the competition

Size/weight- Heavier and bigger than the JVC. Is it more ergonomic this way? I don't know.

Price- More expensive than the JVC (around 500 USD to 1k.)

What do you guys think?
 
Sorry Marco, but you clearly have never used one of them. I love my HVX200, but when it comes to long handheld shooting or one needs a quick servozoom or you start attaching stuff like wireless audio, lights etc the formfactor is proven and works. Yes you can achieve different things with different cams and therefore they get developped like that.
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Who said anything about the 200? That form factor sucks too. I guess Panasonic knows what they are doing because plenty people seem perfectly happy with a gigantic old school ENG body style.

I have shot with a DSR-250 in film school and I hate it. I am not a news cameraman. I want to film movies with the same agility I have when I shoot stills. That type of ergonomics has yet to be perfected (D90 and 5D are flawed in other ways), but when it is cameras like the HPX300 will seem absurd.

And thanks for reminding me of the hostility and arrogance found on these forums when someone has a difference of opinion. It's the reason I barely post anymore.


Marco
 
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This is really funny... A camera is announced that maybe a handful of people have actually seen in person, and on this and other forums the self-appointed pundits are already bemoaning it's deficiencies... very entertaining...

There's an old axiom about not re-inventing the wheel. It is smart design sense to stick with a tried and proven form factor, and if possible, improve on it. It appears that that is what Panasonic has done - they've taken an HPX500, trimmed it down some and stuffed "prosumer" guts into it - plus, apparently, greatly improved things like the viewfinder... I think that's pretty smart.

People that don't want an ENG style camera have plenty of other choices (besides which, as I alluded to above, the "ENG" style is a hand-me-down from professional 16mm cameras that are still used to shoot dramatic productions today). There are plenty of potential customers that have been craving that design in an affordable P2 camera.

My only regret is that I just spent $2,500 for a 2" finder for my HPX500, and it looks like there will be an improved, and less expensive, alternative coming soon... Oh well, such is technology...
 
Except for the depth of field what will real difference be between 1/3 and 2/3''.
I mean if there's a small difference, it comes close to the HPX2700
 
marco0782 said:
Who said anything about the 200? That form factor sucks too. I guess Panasonic knows what they are doing because plenty people seem perfectly happy with a gigantic old school ENG body style.

I have shot with a DSR-250 in film school and I hate it. I am not a news cameraman. I want to film movies with the same agility I have when I shoot stills. That type of ergonomics has yet to be perfected (D90 and 5D are flawed in other ways), but when it is cameras like the HPX300 will seem absurd.

And thanks for reminding me of the hostility and arrogance found on these forums when someone has a difference of opinion. It's the reason I barely post anymore.


Marco
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Because you're not going to have the stability holding a video camera built like it were a still camera like you would using a shoulder mount. Plus, putting P2 slots, batteries, XLR inputs, and a decent LCD/Viewfinder on an SLR style body that would be easy to hold for any length of time would be a bit difficult.
 
Mac said:
My only regret is that I just spent $2,500 for a 2" finder for my HPX500, and it looks like there will be an improved, and less expensive, alternative coming soon... Oh well, such is technology...
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im curious what you mean by that. To me it looks doubtful that the 300 viewfinder will fit on the HPX500. It would be amazing if it did, but I'm not getting my hopes up (I bought a vf20wb too)
 
I, too, doubt that the HPX300 finder would work - I assume the viewfinder output on the new camera is digital, and since the 500's is analog, apples and grapefruit - besides, where would we get one separate from the camera anyway?

What I meant was that the hardware apparently exists at Panasonic to offer an accessory color finder that's sharper than the 2" B&W one we just bought, and possibly at a lower price... I like my finder, but color's nice, and sharper would be even nicer...
 
1/3" vs 2/3" chip.... seems like a rather large difference in the amount of data collected...? What think yea?
 
The chip, as I'm learning, isn't the major factor to be considered. Remember, the 300 is AVC-Intra...
 
marco0782 said:
Who said anything about the 200? That form factor sucks too. I guess Panasonic knows what they are doing because plenty people seem perfectly happy with a gigantic old school ENG body style.

I have shot with a DSR-250 in film school and I hate it. I am not a news cameraman. I want to film movies with the same agility I have when I shoot stills. That type of ergonomics has yet to be perfected (D90 and 5D are flawed in other ways), but when it is cameras like the HPX300 will seem absurd.

And thanks for reminding me of the hostility and arrogance found on these forums when someone has a difference of opinion. It's the reason I barely post anymore.


Marco
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I have re-read your original post and I guess you are talking about using the SI-2K mini as a form factor you would like to use in a handheld environment?

A - why don't you buy a SI-2K?

B - how are you going to hold the camera, adjust the iris, find focus, plug a mic in ect... with that little box attached to a lens? - and keep it steady... This is not still photography where one can adjust settings in between shots.

C - Do you know that to use these camera in the Slumdog movie they hired a firm out of Germany to design a special backpack Laptop recording harness to allow them to use this camera in a handheld situation? - That does not sound like a sub-$10,000 answer to me.

Your harsh tone based on sketchy factual information is what prompted people to answer in a cold manner.
 
Mac said:
I, too, doubt that the HPX300 finder would work - I assume the viewfinder output on the new camera is digital, and since the 500's is analog, apples and grapefruit - besides, where would we get one separate from the camera anyway?

What I meant was that the hardware apparently exists at Panasonic to offer an accessory color finder that's sharper than the 2" B&W one we just bought, and possibly at a lower price... I like my finder, but color's nice, and sharper would be even nicer...
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The viewfinder on the HPX300 is not removeable, the cable is hardwired to the camera. You can slide it off if you undo 2 screws however, which will be good for packing into small cases.
 
Barry_Green said:
Actually Jan brought that up as a specific design feature they set out to implement. P2 is huge in football, with a dozen NFL teams and several dozen major colleges using it for instant replay/coaching review footage, and Jan said that shooters love the ability to see over the side of the camera when there's 300-lb linebackers that might be rushing at you...
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True that. One of my buddies is a DP for the Ravens. He got clocked this last season.

It wasn't fun.
 
Joe Lawry said:
The viewfinder on the HPX300 is not removeable, the cable is hardwired to the camera. You can slide it off if you undo 2 screws however, which will be good for packing into small cases.
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I wouldn't recommend doing this as a practice, because those scews, will come up missing soon enough. It really is meant to stay on the camera. If you want to down size the case, take the lens off.

Best,

Jan
 
I remember many "pundits" trashing 1080i HDV based on what the specs said (only 25mbps compression), without ever seeing an image. It's the way people are, no matter if it's a new camera, NLE program, etc., and a lot of my clients love Sony and Canon 1080i HDV. The Z1 was/is a very popular camera, as was/is the XLH1 series.

Heck, what if the three-1/3" CCDs end up being more light sensitive due to new technology? We won't know until the camera comes out. But I'm certainly happy they're putting full-res HD into this camera, and making it affordable.

All I know is, based on the history of Panasonic pro cameras, this one is likely to be a winner. I know many shooters waiting to test it out when it's available.

Heath
 
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