HPX300 vs 500

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nickmicros

Well-known member
I want to make a decision between these two cameras.

Right now I am leaning toward the HPX500 because of the 2/3 CCD rather than the 300 cmos sensor because of the rolling shutter issue.

Is rolling shutter a day to day problem?

Can either one of these cameras shoot true 1080p? Or 1080p 24pn like the HVX 720/24pn?

Also, can I overcrank/undercrank in 1080 mode with either HPX?
 
nickmicros said:
Is rolling shutter a day to day problem?

Also, can I overcrank/undercrank in 1080 mode with either HPX?
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It depends what you are shooting, I went with the 500 instead of the 300 due to deliverytime and CCD.

So far I've done two days helishoot and just in from a large car fire in the neighbourhood, typical news footage with flashing lights from press photographers and police/firetrucks. I know there are a firmware fix, but not how good it works in the real world.

As far as news goes the 2/3" will be another world in bad light. But it's SD chips vs HPX300 which are HD chips...but CMOS.

None of Panasonics different cameras does 1080p with VF, except the 3700 but thats only up to 30fps.
 
Christian m said:
It depends what you are shooting, I went with the 500 instead of the 300 due to deliverytime and CCD.

As far as news goes the 2/3" will be another world in bad light. But it's SD chips vs HPX300 which are HD chips...but CMOS.

None of Panasonics different cameras does 1080p with VF, except the 3700 but thats only up to 30fps.
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The project is a short film. I am looking primarily for a 2/3 CCD HD for clean footage and low light capabilites. Also a camera that can shoot true 1080p. Lastly, a rig that is less than 15k. So the 500 with the Letus b4 relay lens to the Ultimate seems to be the most suitable option.

However I want avoid mixing 720p overcrank footage with 1080p. This is when I consider the EX3 but still do not want to shoot with a CMOS sensor because of artifacts and my lack of knowledge with XDcam.
 
There's some whoop-ass going on in that trailer!

Looks really good.

Though the more I learn about video, the more I respect film.

While that trailer looks wonderful and is made by only an $8,000 camera body!, it still looks like video to me, even with the 35mm adapter.

Very elusive look that film has and I don't know if it can ever be duplicated with video.

I don't want to say too sharp, but too present?

I have been loving the images out of my 500. Such a joy to come home and edit.
 
On this great forum I have read a lot about the HPX300 and I get the feeling the 300 is not going to cut it. Noise issues keep coming up in varies threads and while the flash band problem seems to be solve in august with a firmware update a firmware update for the skew issue seems not be realistic. So I hope there will be an update of the HP500 (CCD, 2/3', DVC proHD) with improved VF, LCD, native 720 with pixel shift to 1080 and some of the features introduced in the HPX170/300. I think this can be done without even negatively influence the sales of the higher end Pana cams. What about the IBC2009 for such an update (Pana should be back anyway at the IBC) :beer:
 
There is no update for the 500 coming. I talked with plenty of factory folks at NAB, and it's not gonna happen. If you want a 500, the existing 500 is the model that's offered. If you want a native-720p HPX500 with a better viewfinder, that already exists, it's the HPX2000. If you want the price point of the 300, the 300 is what's available.

Those are the choices, nothing else is even hinted at for any time soon, and with the 300 being on the market barely a month, I wouldn't expect to see anything soon either.
 
Cees Mutsaers said:
So I hope there will be an update of the HP500 (CCD, 2/3', DVC proHD) with improved VF, LCD, native 720 with pixel shift to 1080 and some of the features introduced in the HPX170/300. I think this can be done without even negatively influence the sales of the higher end Pana cams.
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As have been mentioned before buy pana reps, no updates so far. And if the 500 did get 720p chips, better vf/lcd and the framerate options it has today....it would compete directly with the hpx2700, maybe not on picture quality if you need the best, but a "mini" 2700 at around 15k will steal sales from 2700.

If the 300 won't cut it, get the 500. There are enough examples out there which prove that it deliveres very good images as both a film style cam and more traditional ENG setups.
 
Christian m said:
And if the 500 did get 720p chips, better vf/lcd and the framerate options it has today....it would compete directly with the hpx2700, maybe not on picture quality if you need the best

If the 300 won't cut it, get the 500. There are enough examples out there which prove that it deliveres very good images as both a film style cam and more traditional ENG setups.
Click to expand...

720p chips? You mean 2/3 CCD?

Don't tell me that the 500 has the same LCD/VF as the HVX or HPX170... That would be awful. However, I always try to have a monitor with me at every shoot.

Framerate as in overcrank/undercrank?

The varicam looks amazing but I still don't see anything drastically different than the 500 as far as picture quality. Both have 10bit 4:2:2 color sampling. But panasonic describes the camera with an advanced dynamic range with more cine gamma settings and DRS which sounds great. However the difference in cost from the to the varicam to the 500 is major.

Looking over the specs, the difference dose not see drastic enough to have such a drastic change in price. Minus the overcrank options, DRS technology and input/output options the camera looks so similar to the 500.

p.s

I am going with the 500 over the 300. 2/3 CCD!
 
I know Barry, it was only wishfull thinking/dreaming :-Dum(DBG):

Barry_Green said:
There is no update for the 500 coming. I talked with plenty of factory folks at NAB, and it's not gonna happen. If you want a 500, the existing 500 is the model that's offered. If you want a native-720p HPX500 with a better viewfinder, that already exists, it's the HPX2000. If you want the price point of the 300, the 300 is what's available.

Those are the choices, nothing else is even hinted at for any time soon, and with the 300 being on the market barely a month, I wouldn't expect to see anything soon either.
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nickmicros:
The 500 are not "true" HD chips, it uses spatial ofset to achive HD. But numbers and maths aside, the images look great at the pricepoint. Not as sharp and sterile as Sony, just nice out of the box.

The LCD I suspect are the same as on the 200/170, not good but it works if it has to. The VF are not the same as 170, being a shouldermounted camera. The VF are not very good, but it will get the job done. The only trouble I had on the first job was about 10 in the morning, with a proper hangover, then it was a bit hard to hit focus accuratly fast...allthough I susepect I cant blame the VF for having to many beers the night before:) There are a better VF available from pana that I might add to my 500.

The 2700/3700varicams (and hpx300) has a 10bit codec, the 500 are 8bit. The big varicams though are in another league than both 500 and 300...

I went with the 500 as mentioned due to delivery times, and I'm glad I did. The benefits of 2/3" in daylight with very high contrast and low light abilities are worth it's weight in gold, shooting a lot of actionsports CCD over CMOS also are a bit safer for me.
 
I actually had a chance to have a little shootout with the 300 vs the 500 earlier this week. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to keep any of the 300 footage. From what I could tell however, the 500 is the way to go. The skew in the 300 was just too much for me to deal with. I mainly do sports, so that's obviously a huge issue.. but you could see the skewing in the viewfinder with relatively slow pans.


The 500 on the other hand held up exceptionally well. The tests we ran today ( http://vimeo.com/4554998 -forgive the dramatic music.. got a little carried away in FCP. It's also fairly compressed in Vimeo, not sure why.) went great. It was my first time having the camera outside and I thought it handled extremely well. The menu can be a little strange to navigate through, but after a few minutes I had the hang of it. The footage in the test above was standard factory presets, no scene files or any tweaking to the picture, just out of the box and shooting. Forgive the less than stellar focus RACs, first time I've shot in a while. The depth in the last shot blew my mind. Obviously, we had the shutter at 1000, and a wide open iris, so we were operating with about a half inch DOF, but still...wow
 
Christian m said:
nickmicros:
The 500 are not "true" HD chips, it uses spatial ofset to achive HD. But numbers and maths aside, the images look great at the pricepoint. Not as sharp and sterile as Sony, just nice out of the box.

The LCD I suspect are the same as on the 200/170, not good but it works if it has to. The VF are not the same as 170, being a shouldermounted camera. The VF are not very good, but it will get the job done. The only trouble I had on the first job was about 10 in the morning, with a proper hangover, then it was a bit hard to hit focus accuratly fast...allthough I susepect I cant blame the VF for having to many beers the night before:) There are a better VF available from pana that I might add to my 500.

The 2700/3700varicams (and hpx300) has a 10bit codec, the 500 are 8bit. The big varicams though are in another league than both 500 and 300...
Click to expand...

Great information. Thank you.

Even, thanks for posting that test. The bokeh looks amazing! I would love to see a 500 w/ a relay lens and any adaptor.
 
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One thing I've noticed today that I'm not a big fan of is how the camera plays back clips on the LCD. I switch back and forth from Variable Frame Rates to standard video modes quite a bit. If I'm in a VFR mode, I can only watch VFR clips, I can't see the standard clips, and vice versa. It isn't a huge problem, but it seems really clumsy when you're out in the field and want to watch something real quick.
 
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