HPX250: HPX250 vs PMW200

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Danny1280

Well-known member
Any thoughts on the two. I know it's too soon to tell since the Sony isn't out yet. But here's what I see as a breakdown of features:

PMW-200: 1/2 " sensor, 422 8 bit, smaller files sizes, about $1K more, based on EX1 (proven workhorse ENG).

HPX-250: 1/3" sensor, 422 10 bit, larger files sizes, longer lens.

On paper they both seem to have their plusses & minuses, but neither is the clear winner.
Perhaps it comes down to which image you prefer.

Thoughts?
 
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Actually, in this particular comparison I can't really imagine though that a user's preference for one image over another would outweigh the factors of media, ergonomics, and operating speed.

The HPX-250 has a longer lens but the PMW-200 arguably has better lens ergonomics.
 
Another classic case of "there's no single camera that can do it all." I speculate the extra $1k on the PMW-200 mostly goes to the 1/2" sensor for that extra push in low light and more visible shallow dof. Sony doesn't have an affordable 10-bit codec yet, so larger sensor is needed to stay competitive. Both these cams are still in the prosumer grade class trying to fight out each other. AVC-I 100's 10-bit makes a difference if you're shooting lots of scenics. A mere 2-bit difference results in 1024 shades of grey vs 256. 10-bit can handle the fine gradation (sunset, sunrise, sky) better than 8-bit. I still finishing my 4-year saga doc shot with the classic HVX-200 shot several years ago. The sunset was kind of like an yolk egg looking with very nasty artifact: color banding. Color banding is very hard to spot on the HPX-250. At last, a well defined sunset, in similar league (but not exceed) w/ 2/3" cam. 22x lens and the extra wide angle w/ out compromising quality lens adaptor are very handy many times for me on HPX-250. If only the HPX-250 has 1/2", then it'll be a very hard to beat small form factor cam.
 
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I am very pleased with my HPX250 and it has a 5 year warranty. I think the AVCIntra 100 helps to maintain a high quality image. HPX250 reliability is not an issue at this stage as far as I know.

On the other hand I own 2 EX1s and my only reservations are the reliability of the servo lens system. Both cameras have had to go back for back focus issues and one for dirt in the prism block. In fact one of them is just going back again for focus/back focus issues not something you want to occur when shooting in remote areas. I had to pay for Sony warranty extensions so hopefully the HPX250 will not have any such costs. Must look at the small print in the Panasonic warranty sometime.

Alister Chapman has stated that the PMW-200 has an updated servo lens system so perhaps Sony have ironed out some of the EX1 reliability problems. Will probably have to get a PMW-200 as a B camera for stuff we shoot on a PMW-500. Production don't like have more than one type of file to deal with.
 
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No SDI out on the 200, so no go for me. I sometimes need SDI for live switching.[/QUOTE]

According to the specs sheet there is an HD/SDI BNC output on the PMW-200 just like the EX1 so you would be ok.
 
Sigh...on paper, the HPX wins me over. But I find myself preferring the image of the ex1/pmw200.
Have to start shooting a doc soon, and not sure which way to go.
 
Straight out of factory default settings, the HPX250 just doesn't look right. After extra efforts in tweaking the cam's image settings, it's much better. This may take days to weeks, depending how much expertise and proper equipment you have.
 
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Danny1280 said:
Sigh...on paper, the HPX wins me over. But I find myself preferring the image of the ex1/pmw200.
Have to start shooting a doc soon, and not sure which way to go.
Click to expand...

Simple -- wait for the PMW200 to come out and test each one extensively. The image quality doesn't matter much if you can't get the shot, so you'll need to decide for yourself which camera has the better ergonomics and shooting responsiveness necessary for you to tell your story.
 
I use to only buy Sony cameras. The last one I had was the Z7U. A great cam, but the wide shot started to go soft. That camera had a lot of back focus issues, and the EX1 also had some issues with back focus. I got the HPX250 as a replacement and have been very happy with the image quality, the light sensitivity, and most importantly, the razor sharp wide shots. In theory, I would love to have a half-inch sensor, but I would want it in a Panasonic camera, not a Sony. ... Once bitten...
 
Thanks all for your advice. I have footage from the 250 when I rented one, and I've been playing around with it...color contrast, etc. And it does look punchier.

From what digitalgecko is saying, I can get more of what I want by tweaking the camera settings. Mostly, I'd like a punchier image...the 250's default looks a bit flat to me.

Whether I do that in post or in camera, it seems like the options are there. And with 10bit 422, it seems the post options are pretty good.

So...leaning towards the 250!
 
The newly released scene files - STYLIN & RICH are pretty good when you're shooting for a non color grading workflow. The red level is just about right (not excessive). I use quite extensively since last week. Had to tweak the master ped and v.detail to boost it further w/ out adding noise. The AVC-I 100 codec can handle the extra color punch w/ ease.
 
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@lonewolf, thanks for the link, great stuff! also what stuff did you do to the master ped and v.detail?
 
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I usually set the v.detail, d. coring to the max 7 at times. There's a danger of increasing the noise for darker scene. But so is for the cam to look of a bit soft. The master ped is increased quite a bit fr 14 - but not beyond 28. Even though I'd assume that it's not technically via test charts, but it simply looks a bit more pleasant and less of "black crushing". This is strictly personal taste and workflow specific. I find those settings very close to Panasonic's 2/3' cams@factory default settings - esp. the HPX3000 series w/ premium grade lenses. And feeding the HPX250 via HDMI to various home and broadcast LED & LCD displays, the customized setting kind of match the typical HD tv broadcast feeds w/ out having to adjust the brightness and contrast again.

The .45 gamma on 2/3" cam is very much similar to master ped of 22-28 on HPX250. .50 gamma is similar to master ped of 14. I prefer .45/24 as it can be boosted via any color grading app in FCP. If I don't do any grading, the scene can be left as-is and looks just right to me. Some people like a bit darker. Others a bit lighter. But keep it consistence when intercutting various scenes.
 
The HPX250 has a much more robust codec in AVC-Intra, as it is 10 bits not 8 bits. It can also do DVCPRO HD, DVCPRO50 and DVCPRO. These last are 8 bits. I would encourage the OP to try one out. Test with a couple of uploads of the favorite scene files. I think you will find that the lens, the codec and the pictures they make will be very pleasing.

Best,

Jan
 
lonewolf2koc@hotmail.com said:
The newly released scene files - STYLIN & RICH are pretty good when you're shooting for a non color grading workflow. The red level is just about right (not excessive). I use quite extensively since last week. Had to tweak the master ped and v.detail to boost it further w/ out adding noise. The AVC-I 100 codec can handle the extra color punch w/ ease.
Click to expand...


I also agree with the new scene files. The STYLIN is great for almost everything I have to shoot. I have played also a bit, however you gotta watch it.
Where I live there is an event once a year called EAA Air Venture, planes from all over the world fly in and its one week of every type of plane you can image. Anyway this year they used allot of 250,s for the detail work and flying shoots. Personally, I have been very happy with mine since I got it. You must decided by using each and pick what fits YOUR work style.
 
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